Turbo 1st gen Neon: Options?

I've been given another neon. So I'm thinking this will be the base for the Challenge Rally car.

What options are there for a Challenge budget friendly turbo for the Neon? I know the SRT is a pretty simple swap, but that's not very challenge friendly. What about a 2.2 swap? From what I've read, those get ugly fast. What about a head swap and add on turbo? What's the poop on that.

Any and all suggestion are appreciated. I'm looking for 200-225 ft/lbs of torque at the wheels (hp can fall where it may). BTW, how does a stock RT transmission handle that much power?

Thanks,

J

Buy an OBX or eBay turbo manifold and used SRT turbo and add Megasquirt.

NBS2005 wrote: I've been given another neon. So I'm thinking this will be the base for the Challenge Rally car. What options are there for a Challenge budget friendly turbo for the Neon? I know the SRT is a pretty simple swap, but that's not very challenge friendly. What about a 2.2 swap? From what I've read, those get ugly fast. What about a head swap and add on turbo? What's the poop on that. Any and all suggestion are appreciated. I'm looking for 200-225 ft/lbs of torque at the wheels (hp can fall where it may). BTW, how does a stock RT transmission handle that much power? Thanks, J

Should be doable... buddy of mine was cracking 12s on a stock 420a with a similar setup. Used the SRT4 turbo.

Stock tranny. I'd keep a replacement just in case, but it should be fine.

Or you can roll your own turbo exhaust manifold and use a turbo off a 2.2 turbo (sometimes cheaper) Plus you can build one for either the SOHC or the DOHC.

http://jgsturbo.com/index2.html'

The transmission is a slightly updated version of the one found in the Spirit R/T turbo's. The gears aren't quite as strong, but the basic design is the same. As long as you can keep wheel hop and keep from spinning one wheel too much you'll be fine.

Keep in mind that if you're not skilled with left-foot braking while autocross you'll want to learn to really make the most of a FWD turbo car. Another trick some of the SRT guys do is to actually slightly blip the throttle while in longer sweepers to help keep the turbo spooled. With the fairly quick spooling turbo in the SRT's that probably works well. On the larger turbos, perhaps not.

Good luck!

If I was on a challenge budget i'd consider the following:

SRT-4 turbofold & downpipe. People practically give this stuff away when they upgrde. It bolts right up to a DOHC neon.

PT cruiser clutch. It's cheap, fits/works like stock, and holds 200+ ft/lbs.

^What he said.
Alternatively, a Cirrus/Stratus 2.4 + SRT-4 bottom end. (I paid ~200 from the dealer for a new set of rods/pistons/rings combined) Add SRT4 turbo+intercooler (CHEAP) PT clutch or machine SRT4 clutch OD slightly to fit Neon trans.

I did the Cirrus 2.4 + SRT4 bits and PT clutch, and the car was a little monster. Later, I did the SRT4 swap.

The parts are all pretty strong, but don't rev the 2.4 too high.... (see: SRT4 swap replacing Cirrus 2.4 on my build)

I'd DEFINITELY build a similiar car again, as the prices keep coming down.

Here check this out:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/reader-rides/712/

I will vouch for the fact that this car is ridiculously fast.

Good luck, I hope to be able to pull an SRT4 swap in mine.

Don't the 2.4's suffer from an oiling issue when exposed to lots of lateral G loading? The 2.0's can use the nice Moroso pans, but the 2.4's with their balance shafts are out of luck apparently.

Just something to watch out for, since building baffles out of tin sheet and tacking them into place on the steel pans is a doddle.

I have heard nothing good about the moroso neon oil pans. A better choice is the stuff this place sells. http://www.crank-scrapers.com/Chrysler.html.

Really? What have you heard that can be substantiated with facts? Given some of the things I've read on the Neons.org board, I would bet that some of that may have been due to user error.

I will add my own data to this before we go much further (I realize that only one data point isn't good, but he's not the best mechanic, so it would be indicative of an average Neon owner in some ways)

Older brother, Dan, took his 95 SOHC to a track day shortly after purchase and of course had oil starvation issues (didn't know the trick about running oil a quart low since the Neon's weren't really that prevalent on the road course yet)

When he replaced the rod bearings a few years later, he added a Moroso pan and never had a problem with oil starvation ever again.

Now, if what you've heard concerned their tendency to leak slightly due to their fabricated nature, then that makes sense but that can be dealt with fairly easily using JB Weld, etc. Otherwise he drove his car daily, for 10 years with the Moroso pan without a complaint (other than the cost of oil changes due to the extra oil capacity and cost of Mobile 1)

Now, I've used the Crank-scrapers products and they are great! In fact Ishihara even gave me a discount since I ordered 5 or 6 of them at once when I was building a number of 2.2/2.5 turbo engines for various projects. A couple of points:

1) They can cause nasty leaks if you don't install them properly since they are are shims between the stock pan and the engine block.

2) They only fix one issue: Oil wrapping around the crank and rods. A crank scraper does not resolve the issue with the oil moving around under various g-loads.

It doesn't hurt to have an extra quart of oil in the pan thanks to the scraper, but that doesn't automatically mean the oil is near the pickup where it belongs. On a wet sump, only baffles will do that, period. The only other solutions to ensuring some oil pressure in the engine during heavy g-loading are:

1) Use an Accusump, which is piped in above the pickup and it is cheap/easy to install compared to an oil pan, scraper, etc.

2) Use a dry sump system, which eliminates the stock pump and pickup, and is not cheap or easy to implement, but can help induce a vacuum in the crank case to help the rings seal, etc.

Yes, the issues involving the moroso oilpan are to do with substandard welding causing leaks. My dad has the crank-scrapers.com kit, and the one he got has baffles included as well. If someone is willing to repair all of the leaks, then a moroso oil pan would be alright too.

Canton makes a good pan and scaper for the 2.0. It's steel, based on the OEM pan, and has a better rep for duability. I have one of each in my shop, (but I've never installed them).

Speaking of the dot org, there are several people on there who have done really nice SRT4 swaps (check the project log section). One fellow even swapped the whole SRT4 interior into a first gen, dash and all! There are a lot of tricks in the STR4 swap, but the 2.4 is pretty straightforward.

From a challenge standpoint, the basic 2.4 swap would likely be the way to go, as the full SRT4 swap would be hard to do under budget, unless you get stuff at next to nothing.

NYG95GA wrote: Canton makes a good pan and scaper for the 2.0. It's steel, based on the OEM pan, and has a better rep for duability. I have one of each in my shop, (but I've never installed them).

doesn't Per's brother own Canton?

http://www.crank-scrapers.com/Chrysler.html

Looks like Ishihara-Johnson has been busy, they've got baffled oilpan inserts for the 2.0 and 2.4 along windage trays and scrapers. That should go a long way to reducing the self detonation problem on the bottom ends when attempting to change directions quickly.

We're using the Moroso oil pan and the Ishihara-Johnson windage tray in our Rallycross Neon project. Look for it in the May issue.

BTW, that issue goes to the printer today.