spend the coin and go with millers oil if you're that worried...
spend the coin and go with millers oil if you're that worried...
In reply to rslifkin :
Agreed. M1's plain-label "normal" stuff is what I'm talking about, not the high mileage, extended performance, or extra MPG stuff.
Even though I look to certain research, I am one who really appreciates real world experience like Flying Lizards. I hear what you're saying and agree, mostly. That is why I run synth blend in most of my cars. To a certain degree, oil is oil and synth blends are synth blends. That 1%, though, is what I'm looking at. The m96/97 is sensitive to oil, use, miles, etc. So it's worth it to me to spend a few more bucks on oil, but like you, I don't want to waste $$ as I do change it often (funny, the rest of my cars get oil changes every 3500, including the 7.3 that gets synth diesel oil). It's like the 10w60 oil that some BMWs have to run. Why, I don't know, but do know that they have to run it, not should, but must. Crazy but true. And this is why, on all forums, oils get to be the craziest threads. YOu should look at Ducati forums. Totally all over the place. And wee change oils well before 3000 miles because most of us never put 3000 miles on them in a year. My 97 still doesn't have 20k but my BMW has almost 72k.
We run Mobil1 in our LeMons car. This is a pushrod BBF making somewhere around 400 HP. With 3.50 gears, it revs somewhere around 4000-5000 RPM on track. We have never had an oil-related failure.
At the last race, we did have an oil _pump_ failure. More specifically, the pickup fell off the pump. I noticed it (Yes, I was the lunkhead who was driving during this unfortunate event) not because the gauge said "0 psi" but because I heard a lifter tick. Without oil pressure, the lifters bled down and the engine lost power. I guess it was something like a crude "limp home" disaster mode.
After noticing he gauge said 0 psi, I did the logical thing- that is, continued to drive the car around the track (the better part of 2 miles) and into the pits, where I shut it off. We restarted the car to confirm 0 oil pressure, and drove it under the car port.
After fixing the pickup, the car went back into racing service. Oil pressure was un-affected - same as prior to losing pressure and driving it around like that for a few minutes.
Yeah, Mobil1 really sucks.
LanEvo said:In reply to rslifkin :
I thought damage to cats was the primary reason ZDDP levels have gone down?
Get out your tinfoil hats! I think ZDDP has been reduced in an effort to eliminate flat tappet motors from the economic sphere.
In reply to markwemple :
You're not incorrect on that. Kinda like spark plugs. They should be the same, but try putting a Champion in a Honda.
Curtis, thanks for that post. I was about to start another asking a similar question. I know what I'm running in the FR-S.
In reply to volvoclearinghouse :
Yep, to put that in perspective, we broke a 9" Ford rearend at the same race. We are hard on our equipment.
Jus so folks are aware, the Porsche website actually links to the Mobile 1 website. It is almost as if they recommend Mobile 1 in their cars. ;-)
To put it another way, I find it hard to believe that any of the boutique oil brands do anything better than Shell/Mobile/.... for a street car. The exception might be zinc content and that only applies to older engines.
If you told me Flying Lizard ran a Mobile 1 that was straight 50 weight, I wouldn't be surprised. Why wouldn't they? Do you want that in your car?
Man, oil threads...
In reply to tester :
And a C6!
And a driveshaft!
"The exception might be zinc content and that only applies to older engines. "
And that's why we run Mobil1 20W-50, as it's one of the very few oils that still has zinc in it. At least, it did the last time I checked the specs. They can get away with it because it (that weight of it, that is) is not recommended as a street oil by any OEM. In fact, I believe it's labeled "Racing Oil".
In reply to volvoclearinghouse :
Problem: Broke rear end, transmission, driveshaft.
Solution: Replace body.
tuna55 said:In reply to volvoclearinghouse :
Problem: Broke rear end, transmission, driveshaft.
Solution: Replace body.
In fairness, we _replaced_ the rear end, driveshaft, and transmission. The car was running flawlessly as it took the checkered flag.
In reply to volvoclearinghouse :
The body was the only original part left. ;-)
In reply to volvoclearinghouse :
Pretty much every oil still has ZDDP in it, it's just a question of how much.
IIRC, M1 0w40 is what Porsche recommends for the M96. There are lots of people running other things. If it were me, it would either be the 0w40 M1 or Shell Rotella T-6 5w40.
If you're really worried about it, call the Porsche Tech center in Atlanta and get the restoration department. Ask them. (Yes, they do have an M96 and GT1 specialist there)
With 12 liters in the sump, 5k mile oil change intervals, and 100% street use ... I bet it makes no difference what oil you choose.
markwemple said:That 1%, though, is what I'm looking at.
Then you need to open your wallet and buy whatever gives you peace of mind. I run Amsoil Dominator RD50 in my racecar (Mercedes M102 Cosworth engine) even though I’m sure it’s no better than Brad Penn PG1. I used to pay a small fortune to import Elf (now called Total) race oil in my Lancer Evo VIII even though any number of cheaper alternatives were surely just as good.
LanEvo said:With 12 liters in the sump, 5k mile oil change intervals, and 100% street use ... I bet it makes no difference what oil you choose.
Eloquence, thy name is 'Brevity'.
tester said:In reply to volvoclearinghouse :
The body was the only original part left. ;-)
So, clearly, that was the problem!
12 liters? I thought this thing held 9. Good lord.
I need to stop opening this thread to see what new silliness is going on.
Big Block Ford makes 400 HP with only 5 quarts of Mobil1.
Well, 6, now. I just embiggened the oil pan. 
Seeing how much oil stuff like Porsches hold always makes me slightly question my Mopar small block that only holds just shy of the spec-ed 5 quarts (including filter). Yet even with that much less oil in the sump, 5W40 HDEO holds up fine for 6k miles (with some amount of beating on it in there and usually a 1/2 quart to a quart of top-off added).
I really don't understand why the water cooled 911's take so much oil. I think it made more sense on the air cooled cars, as the oil is really part of the cooling system, much more so than on a water cooled engine (I know I'm speaking in crazy generalities here, bear with me). I could see five quarts. I could give six a pass. Over nine quarts? That's just silly.
But it does open up opportunities to extend the oil life beyond what would normally be used in something more "pedestrian". That much oil, with proper sampling, should last a very long time. Right? This is me assuming that the car isn't tracked which I know will help kill oil life faster.
pres589 said:12 liters? I thought this thing held 9. Good lord.
I need to stop opening this thread to see what new silliness is going on.
The 996 oil change kits sold online come with 3 jugs of oil, so I assumed you needed that much.
In reply to rslifkin :
I was looking at the specs on a Ferrari 412 the other day (just don't ask me why...). It holds twenty (yes, 20) quarts (or liters, whatever unit dem Eye-talians use) of oil. TWENTY.
For domestic V8's, I think most folks who've never really investigated the geometry of the oil pan relative to the pickup would be shocked by how little oil is generally covering the pickup. When I was putting the last 460 I built together, I checked- and with the oil level at the "ADD" mark, the oil was just barely covering the pickup. It doesn't matter if you're running Wal-Mart brand 10W-30 or the finest synthetics distilled through truffles and saffron and packed in gold-leaf-encrusted artisinal bottles, if the oil isn't covering the pickup, you're boned.
Hence why a windage tray is just about a must for any wet sump system that's going to see track use. And add about 1/2-quart over the 'FULL' mark, on a cold engine.
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