Valuation for 03 Mazda

I have been offered a 03 Mazdaspeed Protege, 2.0 turbo, manual, minor rust, 177k

What do you guys think it is worth?

$3000.

If that.

mndsm wrote: If that.

Yeah. With the rust, I was thinking $2500. They still aren't particularly desired.

Between that garbage motor, that garbage trans, the rust, and the miles- it really isn't worth much. At that point it's just a worn out protege with some fancy suspension bits.... that are probably also worn out.

Harsh words, any reason or description of the problem issues.

I am interested at a price that works for me, I know what he paid for it.

It will be less than $2500 I can assure you

aussiesmg wrote: Harsh words, any reason or description of the problem issues. I am interested at a price that works for me, I know what he paid for it. It will be less than $2500 I can assure you

The motors were not strengthened at all from their "barely held together without boost" origins when they were introduced in the 93 model year base Probe and MX6.

So naturally, Mazda used it.

Then they had Callaway design a turbo kit for it.

So naturally, Mazda threw out most of it and made it cheap and E36 M3ty.

With all this, if it was tuned halfway worth a damn, it would still probably be ok at the stock power levels of 170hp to the crank. (30hp gain HELL YEAH!)

So naturally, Mazda did what they do best when it comes to piston motors and turbos, and tuned it absolutely HORRIBLY. (Read: unsafe.)

But all this could be forgiven if the transmission held together and they moved away from the old G-series ("G" stands for "Glass!") transmissions.

So naturally, Mazda used the G-series transmission, which shred fairly often.

Good chassis, good idea, one of the worst executions EVER.

At any given time, there are more of these for sale with blown motors than there are running examples. This should tell you something.

I am reading behind your subtle comments and getting the idea that you think I should,

"Run the berkeley away"

Depends how cheap you can get it and what you're willing to do to it to make it into a decent car.

I still like them, but i'd prefer to start with a blown-up one for like... $500.

There's two kinds of MSPs. Those that have blown up, and those that will.

I feel like the ones that have are the better deal in the long run.

I was looking at it as a back up for my work car, but I regularly end up 3 hours away and don't need a problem child when I have sick/injured people on board

Yep, bad idea.

Thanks Ben, I appreciate the input

So, what would be the proper alternatives to a Mazdaspeed Protege in the $5-10K price range? I was the original owner of one of these and the handling was exceptional. I'm considering getting another one, but the reliability issues of this light duty engine + turbo along with the owner demographic (I was late 30's when I bought mine so outside the norm) over 10 years of ownership have me concerned.

I know the Focus SVT and Neon SRT-4 were the primary competitors in the day--the VW GTI never matched up because of its extra heft. In a sport coupe I think the obvious choices would be a Celica GT-S or Integra GS-R, but not certain with a sedan. 4-door Integra GS-R perhaps with some suspension upgrades?

A regular Protege with some suspension work. (And/or a KL swap.)

If you're trying to match power, you've pretty much named them. Maybe also the 200sx SE-R, but that was earlier.

In reply to Alfa105_BMWE30:

In that price range I would steer clear of all those ragged out boost buggies. You're on the right track with the Celica GTS and Integra GSR. You could get a really nice MX-5 for 10K. And if you're patient you could pick up an early S2000 that's in fairly decent shape for about 10K.

Everyone is saying they all blow up and yet the one your looking at has made it all the way to 177K...

I know of several that have made it that far... one's on its 4th motor and 3rd trans. Odo keeps rollin no matter how many times it's been rebuilt.

EDIT- I will say this- it's one of the most brilliant chassis FWD i've ever driven. I came VERY close to purchasing one instead of my Cooper S. I'd love to own one, if it wasn't so glass driveline wise.

I have a local buddy that got rid of his 88 626 GT Turbo for an MSP brand new off the lot.

He's still bitter about it almost 10 years later. Says it was the worst automotive decision he's made in his life. He was expecting a more refined and modern version of his beloved 626.

Instead he blew the first motor before 20k miles, and the second before 60k miles. 100% stock. He sold it as half of these get sold: with a blown motor and well under 100k miles.

To put this another way, I know of more than one car that has the smaller and more primitive BP motor swapped into it.

I was specifically thinking 4 doors with a usable back seat although still a sub-3000 lb. car. So an S2000 would out-handle one of these Mazdaspeeds, but it doesn't fit the requirement. I was less concerned with the power it makes although that extra 30 hp that the turbo adds to the Mazdaspeed Protege over the regular 2.0 liter Protege is significant even though it's not much extra for a turbo. It goes from being fast enough to get out of its own way to being semi-sporty.

So would a 2001 Protege MP3 model qualify as a "regular Protege" and thus be a better choice? It's pretty much a Mazdaspeed Protege minus the turbo and the limited slip differential--same suspension setup or very close. I do understand that examples of those just like the Mazdaspeed will normally have over 100K miles on them now meaning much of that suspension will be ready for replacement. So it follows that starting from a non-special edition Protege would be the cheaper way to the same end. One thing you do get with both the Mazdaspeed and MP3 models though if I remember correctly is the European Protege quick ratio steering setup and ultra-quick reflexes are a big part of what made these so special. Seems like that could be difficult to source for a base Protege.

Is the (stock) drivetrain from a 323 GTX less fragile than the Mazdaspeed Protege? That's another of my candidates, but I've never driven one and imagine the handling isn't going to be nearly as good as the Mazdaspeed given advancements in a decade plus and the Protege being a better starting point than a 323.

I wouldn't suggest a 323GTX to anyone unless they had a very strong passion for the cars and are willing to spend months tracking down NLA parts.

The MP3 sounds like a good fit.

Also see: Corolla XRS.

aussie, if you really want an '03 mazda, you should buy my 6s. less miles, less rust, more V6 MT, more passenger space. also more money. ;-)

Swank Force One wrote: I wouldn't suggest a 323GTX to anyone unless they had a very strong passion for the cars and are willing to spend months tracking down NLA parts. The MP3 sounds like a good fit. Also see: Corolla XRS.

Thanks for the insights. I see from another thread you are/were a Mazdaspeed Miata owner so not just a brand hater. I had a very positive experience with my Mazdaspeed Protege from 2003-2007, enough so that I'm considering another. But, I was 37 years old when I bought the car new so outside the "mod & abuse" owner demographic for this type of car. I knew enough to let the engine reach full operating tempature before getting into the turbo and to let it cool down before shutting it off. I realized it was an engine with stock internals never designed for a turbo. Plus, in general I babied it except for occasional brief fits of enthusiasm having left behind the speeding tickets from my twenties.

The Corolla XRS is a great recommendation. I knew about the older Matrix XRS with the same peaky 1.8 at the Celica GTS, but the Corolla XRS slipped my mind. It certainly didn't get much press/marketing and is kind of lost in the sea of generic Corolla S models. With my BMW 2002 and E30 background, I have always liked the look and feel of Toyota interiors over other Japanese cars (those Mazdaspeed Protege seats are just silly) and I'm sure the Corolla XRS will be the one still on the road in 30 years. Probably with some suspension tweaks it can be made to approximate the Mazdas minus the steering response. Only problem I see besides limited availability and their milquetoast personality is very strong resale value based on the nameplate. The lower mileage ones are still over the $10K limit, but they are also a couple years newer than the Mazdaspeeds and that's part of it.

wagon? rear disc?

Alfa105_BMWE30 wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: I wouldn't suggest a 323GTX to anyone unless they had a very strong passion for the cars and are willing to spend months tracking down NLA parts. The MP3 sounds like a good fit. Also see: Corolla XRS.

Thanks for the insights. I see from another thread you are/were a Mazdaspeed Miata owner so not just a brand hater. I had a very positive experience with my Mazdaspeed Protege from 2003-2007, enough so that I'm considering another. But, I was 37 years old when I bought the car new so outside the "mod & abuse" owner demographic for this type of car. I knew enough to let the engine reach full operating tempature before getting into the turbo and to let it cool down before shutting it off. I realized it was an engine with stock internals never designed for a turbo. Plus, in general I babied it except for occasional brief fits of enthusiasm having left behind the speeding tickets from my twenties. The Corolla XRS is a great recommendation. I knew about the older Matrix XRS with the same peaky 1.8 at the Celica GTS, but the Corolla XRS slipped my mind. It certainly didn't get much press/marketing and is kind of lost in the sea of generic Corolla S models. With my BMW 2002 and E30 background, I have always liked the look and feel of Toyota interiors over other Japanese cars (those Mazdaspeed Protege seats are just silly) and I'm sure the Corolla XRS will be the one still on the road in 30 years. Probably with some suspension tweaks it can be made to approximate the Mazdas minus the steering response. Only problem I see besides limited availability and their milquetoast personality is very strong resale value based on the nameplate. The lower mileage ones are still over the $10K limit, but they are also a couple years newer than the Mazdaspeeds and that's part of it.

I'm a hardcore Toyota fanboi....

But find myself owning 5 Mazdas at the moment, so no, i'm not a brand hater. The problem is that sometimes, the most intriguing and interesting Mazdas are the worst ones to own. (The Mazdaspeed Miata not being a particularly good car in stock form, either, in my opinion.)

Honestly, the Corolla XRS isn't far off from the MSP in terms of response. I'd consider it a superior car in every way besides looks, but that's subjective.

Current Mazda fleet:

1988 MX6 GT
1990 MX6 GT
1993 Miata
1993 Ford Escort GT (Mazda BG chassis, KL swap)
2004 Mazdaspeed Miata

And now SWMBO is lusting after an RX3/808, so that will probably be the next purchase.

On that note, if you're willing to go old like a 323GTX, i can't recommend the 88-92 MX6/626 GT enough. Bulletproof, parts are available, great power, build quality is insanely high.

Swank Force One wrote:

Alfa105_BMWE30 wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: I wouldn't suggest a 323GTX to anyone unless they had a very strong passion for the cars and are willing to spend months tracking down NLA parts. The MP3 sounds like a good fit. Also see: Corolla XRS.

Thanks for the insights. I see from another thread you are/were a Mazdaspeed Miata owner so not just a brand hater. I had a very positive experience with my Mazdaspeed Protege from 2003-2007, enough so that I'm considering another. But, I was 37 years old when I bought the car new so outside the "mod & abuse" owner demographic for this type of car. I knew enough to let the engine reach full operating tempature before getting into the turbo and to let it cool down before shutting it off. I realized it was an engine with stock internals never designed for a turbo. Plus, in general I babied it except for occasional brief fits of enthusiasm having left behind the speeding tickets from my twenties. The Corolla XRS is a great recommendation. I knew about the older Matrix XRS with the same peaky 1.8 at the Celica GTS, but the Corolla XRS slipped my mind. It certainly didn't get much press/marketing and is kind of lost in the sea of generic Corolla S models. With my BMW 2002 and E30 background, I have always liked the look and feel of Toyota interiors over other Japanese cars (those Mazdaspeed Protege seats are just silly) and I'm sure the Corolla XRS will be the one still on the road in 30 years. Probably with some suspension tweaks it can be made to approximate the Mazdas minus the steering response. Only problem I see besides limited availability and their milquetoast personality is very strong resale value based on the nameplate. The lower mileage ones are still over the $10K limit, but they are also a couple years newer than the Mazdaspeeds and that's part of it.

I'm a hardcore Toyota fanboi.... But find myself owning 5 Mazdas at the moment, so no, i'm not a brand hater. The problem is that sometimes, the most intriguing and interesting Mazdas are the worst ones to own. (The Mazdaspeed Miata not being a particularly good car in stock form, either, in my opinion.) Honestly, the Corolla XRS isn't far off from the MSP in terms of response. I'd consider it a superior car in every way besides looks, but that's subjective. Current Mazda fleet: 1988 MX6 GT 1990 MX6 GT 1993 Miata 1993 Ford Escort GT (Mazda BG chassis, KL swap) 2004 Mazdaspeed Miata And now SWMBO is lusting after an RX3/808, so that will probably be the next purchase. On that note, if you're willing to go old like a 323GTX, i can't recommend the 88-92 MX6/626 GT enough. Bulletproof, parts are available, great power, build quality is insanely high.

ONE OF US. ONE OF US.