In here for the late 90s EV Rangers.
In here for the late 90s EV Rangers.
In reply to bobzilla :
Valid point. Lightnings are all crew cab/short bed with 4wd. I was able to build an XL crew cab/short bed with 4wd (same body and drivetrain type) for $45k with zero options.
So the price gap is about $40k from bottom to top of range for either the EV or ICE F-150. Although the delta is similar, the EVs cost about $5k more for an equivalent truck. I'm loathe to mention it, but if any tax credits are applied, the EV might actually get to be less expensive than an ICE F-150 (assuming either truck sold for MSRP). That could be pretty appealing to the right buyer.
In reply to STM317 :
better than I. I spent hald an hour trying to find an option for a crew in anything but the lariat. It's wild to think that our sierra in 06 was $26.4k sticker, to replace it today is just short of $50k.
In reply to bobzilla :
If the 3 RWD won't be able to make the trip, I'll either go for a Performance or a Model S.
I was on the list for the Lightning and was excited for it, until the bumped the price of any extended range version to over $80k, and out of the range of any possible tax credits. Now it seems they're having trouble moving them. Now I've decided to maybe just wait for the next gen that would be built from the ground up to be an EV. Currently have an Expedition, but missing the utility of the bed.
I have an RS3 for as the fun track car. An EV sounds great for daily use. Good torque, no gear changes, mass is low in the car, low maintenance. I can charge at home, and using the F-150 to power my house when needed would be a game changer. I don't think I would buy an EV that didn't have the feature to be honest. I'm in Texas, so we have power issues over here.
The hybrid does seem like a good option too, but not compelling enough to switch from the Expedition. Truck prices are high though, and EVs even more so. It's no surprise that they're not selling despite people wanting them. I'm excited to see the next gen though.
In reply to STM317 :
But don't forget that some states ev plates and insurance are more than the ice. I laid it out for frenchy in one of the closed ones in detail so I'm not going to here. But like has been said before it's very location and situation dependent. It might work for you. It might not. But it shouldn't be the only option either.
Was availed of an opportunity today I didn't know I was missing out on with the X5 PHEV.
My wife borrowed the car today and neither filled it with gas nor plugged it in on arriving home.
This is the first article I saw about a million mile tesla. After 13 motor swaps it seems it's kind of like Abe Lincoln's Ax. As long as you cover miles faster than it rusts any car will do a million miles if you keep replacing powerplants.
Javelin said:My ex-SIL bought two used 1G Leafs for very cheap, like sub challenge money. That could be an interesting cheap daily option.
I'm tempted by these as well. They'd be ideal for going to the train station, if there's a mod to get more range for the days I drive In I'd ne very interested in one.
Wally (Forum Supporter) said:Javelin said:My ex-SIL bought two used 1G Leafs for very cheap, like sub challenge money. That could be an interesting cheap daily option.
I'm tempted by these as well. They'd be ideal for going to the train station, if there's a mod to get more range for the days I drive In I'd ne very interested in one.
Apparently there's replacement battery packs with more juice that are not unreasonable. It's a very intriguing short commuter.
Tom Suddard said:Frenchy, stop posting random nonsense. The ER Ford has a 320 mile range, and the Cybertruck doesn't exist.
You are right. I was wrong. I apologize.
Chaparral, I'm hoping the LFP Model 3 makes it. I'm really hoping LFP becomes super common soon.
Wally (Forum Supporter) said:Javelin said:My ex-SIL bought two used 1G Leafs for very cheap, like sub challenge money. That could be an interesting cheap daily option.
I'm tempted by these as well. They'd be ideal for going to the train station, if there's a mod to get more range for the days I drive In I'd ne very interested in one.
Dala can show the way on that one; there's already kits to alter the leaf for more range and I think there's one with 250+ now (Nissan still makes the batteries for them, but they're massively upgraded) but most of the shops are in the UK I think. He has the Leaf nearly cracked wide open. Youtube channel link.
What exactly is comparing min vs max price difference between unrelated vehicles with widely varying trims and optional equipment supposed to inform us about? What defines 'better' or 'worse' and why? A base Civic is $23.8K. A Civic Type R is $43.8k. That's an 84% difference vs the previously described 23% (actually 29%) difference on a Forte or 32% (actually 45%) on an EV6. So regardless of ICE or EV, cars with a greater variety of trims and options have a wider spread. Neat, I guess, but seems both obvious and fundamentally irrelevant.
The talk of 'equivalent' ICE vs EV towing range reductions is also a bit off IMHO, since there isn't actually equivalency there. Consider the physics that causes EV's to get better city range than highway range, and ICE's to get better highway range than city range. This is why EV's are experiencing greater % towing (continuous load) range reductions than ICE's. From what I've seen, ICE maintains >50% rated range while EV drops to <50% rated range for towing an equivalent enclosed or travel trailer on the highway.
So EV trucks should be awesome for hauling and short range towing. However, until there is one or more major battery technology breakthroughs, ICE will still be needed for those who are purchasing for medium to long range towing capabilities. Even the upcoming T-bag truck can't overcome these simple physics and technological limitations that will destroy its range when towing. And while 'refueling' (charging) at the campsite would be great, many of the best campsites don't have electrical hookups.
This is why my ICE truck, with 36 gallon tank and 430+ mile travel trailer towing range, won't be getting replaced with an EV in the foreseeable future.
Our primary family cruiser will inevitably be replaced with an EV next time. But since it's relatively new, reasonably efficient, not getting a ton of miles, and She Who Enables Every Thing I Enjoy (SWEETIE) is still in love with it, that's also not likely to happen much sooner.
So that really only leaves our 3rd car as the first possible electrification candidate. It's role is that of a fun secondary family car. So it needs to be minimally family capable and largely depreciated. However, it also must be interesting, which can mean many things. Currently it's a 128i, but that is likely going up for sale soon. Unfortunately, not many EV's seem to fall into that category for me so far. Perhaps a Fiat 500e?
Driven5 said:technological limitations.
The pantograph and catenary wire was invented in like 1895. If we devised a standard, we could have electrified EV lanes for unlimited range on the interstates, and that would probably solve a good portion of the range issues.
Ev towing range is a HUGE challenge. I don't know that I see effective laden ranges being over 250-300 miles for a long time. I think ICE will rule interstate towing for awhile to come. Shorter range towing, oh yeah, ev starts making sense with on demand torque. I need to learn more into what's available in Regen for towing for the local stop-go usage cycle though, admittedly.
Wife and I are considering getting an EV as her next car. For local only day to day, it's a hard proposition to beat. And for non-towing trips, well as charging infrastructure and faster charging rates come on, the holdup is getting less and less.
One thing to consider is that charging rates are not exactly linear charging an EV from 0-100% you can get to 80ish% pretty quickly, but that last bit takes longer. So longer travel is likely to be a few shorter stops rather than one big one, but depending on charging rates/available level charger and the 80% of range figure. Then again, as I age, taking 15 minutes or so every 3 hours or so to stretch and refresh (and bathroom!) is becoming more the norm for me than my old "cannonball the full range of my gas tank' mentality.
For example, my big arse suv has a huge tank that gives me close to a 500 mile range (non-towing). Figure a trip average speed of 65 and some safety net range, that's about a 7 hour straight range. I'm under 40 and my joints and bladder need breaks more frequently than that.
So, the question is, how long you want till a 15min or so break at a fast charger? 3 hours is about 250 mile range with that 80% fill, and 4 hours is 320 miles... As fast chargers get available along longer routes, it's not sounding awful.
We have a pretty good use case for an EV - 15-20k a year in short trips (25 min or less). But I would have to reconfigure the entire fleet (or buy an extra car) to make an EV happen. When it's time for our next car, we'll take a hard look at an EV, but will probably end up with a hybrid (maybe a Maverick), because we do tend to take some longer trip, too. The limited range aspect of an EV is a challenge I'd love to take on, but my wife wants to get in a car and drive without worrying about range.
Selfishly, I'd love to buy an EV, but it just doesn't fit in with our overall situation right now. A used, 2G Prius or another used hybrid would make far more sense for us.
In reply to Driven5 :
She Who Enables Every Thing I Enjoy (SWEETIE)
I love that acronym!
Wally (Forum Supporter) said:This is the first article I saw about a million mile tesla. After 13 motor swaps it seems it's kind of like Abe Lincoln's Ax. As long as you cover miles faster than it rusts any car will do a million miles if you keep replacing powerplants.
wait I was told electric motors never go bad. This must be fake news.
red_stapler said:Driven5 said:technological limitations.
The pantograph and catenary wire was invented in like 1895. If we devised a standard, we could have electrified EV lanes for unlimited range on the interstates, and that would probably solve a good portion of the range issues.
I am sure this will work well south of the frost belt. But north of it? We can't keep roads together long enough.
In reply to Apexcarver :
This is a legitimate question not a "gotcha" or something... What kind of long term issues do you run into when running a battery at highway speeds, draining, then fast charging, rinse and repeat? Do they overheat? Shorten their life cycle? Does it not bother them at all? I know my phone hates short charges and heat and it's just powering a small processor and screen.
bobzilla said:Wally (Forum Supporter) said:This is the first article I saw about a million mile tesla. After 13 motor swaps it seems it's kind of like Abe Lincoln's Ax. As long as you cover miles faster than it rusts any car will do a million miles if you keep replacing powerplants.
wait I was told electric motors never go bad. This must be fake news.
Who told you that?
bobzilla said:In reply to Apexcarver :
This is a legitimate question not a "gotcha" or something... What kind of long term issues do you run into when running a battery at highway speeds, draining, then fast charging, rinse and repeat? Do they overheat? Shorten their life cycle? Does it not bother them at all? I know my phone hates short charges and heat and it's just powering a small processor and screen.
Well, theres a lot to unpack from it. I am an engineer who is still learning in this space amoungst a ton of other things, so I stayed at a holiday inn express, but am still learning.
From the trainings I have had, it seems that its the extreme high and low charge states that do the most harm, but the fast charge cycling *may* have some long term life implications, but not too drastic. There is a lot of automated control regarding battery conditioning mitigating this and it is always the vehicle controlling the charger's power/charging being applied. Insofar as overheating, most have liquid cooling to the battery pack and have an ability to heat/cool the pack, so there are differences to charging your phone/device.
In reply to gearheadmb :
Page 64 (among others) By the same person that has spent more time making things up than researching. Looks like we uncovered yet another lie.
In reply to Apexcarver :
Yeah, I thought about the cooling aspect but they are a lot larger packs. Just curious on the scale of things. I mean, there may be an advancement in the next couple years that makes all these questions irrelevant anyway as fast as things have been happening.
In reply to Apexcarver :
The tech working with us explained it similarly, that the chargers are much better at managing battery life than a phone charger so damage would be minimized. They charging stations we have are impressive bits of equipment.
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