What drivetrain question...

The Lancia Scorpion thread I posted got me to thinking.   Let's assume you've got a tube frame something (e.g. Locost) and you're looking for a drivetrain for it.  Your options are to go with something common/cheap/durable, ranging to rare/expensive/fragile.  Within the three-dimensional graph of power/weight/cost does something like the drivetrain of a Fiat 124 or an Alfa Romeo GTV or a Lancia fall within the bounds of "viable" in the mind of The Hive, or would you stick with something more recent and common, perhaps domestic?  I see Fiat 124 Spyders at practically free on CL fairly regularly and was wondering.

The thing it always comes down to is cost. Look at Mr Suddard's BMW rebuild. He's at maybe $7500 in a $500 car. I endorse this action, but you have to be real with the expected outcome.

Years ago, building 4X4s, I was doing a Toyota pickup, while a buddy was doing a full sized Blazer. Brake calipers were double for my truck. The 350 rebuild was WAY cheaper than my 4 banger. I suspect much the same with Fiat vs the rest of the field. If you are building a 124 engine, you are doing it out of love. Nothing wrong with that, but there are more economically viable ways to get to your power goals.

All that said, this hobby is about passion and potentially poor choices. The Ferrari V-12 build tearing across this forum is a great example. a twin turbo LS would make more sense, but lacks a certain gen-e-se-qua. So to speak. Build what turns your crank.

Recent and common.   There are far too many lightweight, decently powerful, reliable, and mass produced engines being made right now to even consider an older powerplant.

Assuming, of course, that pure logic is the motivating factor.  Logic rarely plays into it for something like this.  If you want a Lotus Twin Cam engine or whatever, well heck, it's your build...

The "nice" thing about the GTV powertrain is that they can be found in rusty Spiders, since they are the same thing.

And I love the Alfa motor- aluminum and light weight, pretty simple, can make over 150hp on a decent budget.

That all being said, I'd probably take the 2.3l out of a Ranger, and start with it.  It's a superior engine to start with.  Which sounds odd with me not being a big fan of engine swaps for Alfas, but given all of the work to swap it, it would have to be a sizable improvement.  Whereas a Locost, or even a Midlandia, you are designing the car around the engine, partially.  A middie with a 2.0l manual Focus or 3 engine would be fun.

Depends on the end goal.

The original Seven had a Kent single cam motor making a tiny amount of power.  It was enough to have fun with.  Maybe not enough for today’s roads, but I suspect it’s still quite fun around town.

A 124 motor is more powerful and historically shown to make more power than you’d know what to do with in a Seven-esque style build.  Simple improvements can be made using modern technology and techniques.  There was even a book written on hotrodding the 124 motor.

if you think about how the Locost and the Sevens and really the entire history of Lotus cars, you’ll realize they were all about maximizing what they could find.

1.4 turbo ecotec

Im a sucker for odd.

60*v6 3400, camaro 3.4, lfx.

They sound fantastic wound high.

And cheap/plentiful/robust.

Theres more power to be had out of something else, and possibly cheaper. But they hit the sweet spot for me. 

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

3400 heads on a Camaro block should make for 13:1 compression and higher flow than ANY iron-headed 60 degree, including the Chevy race heads from the 80s.

I don't think they sound too good though.  Maybe it is because of the crappy exhaust they always used.  I heard a modified NSX one time, and reflected/lamented that it sounded just like a Grand Prix with a blown muffler.

Another point: Don't those Alfas have guibo type driveshafts, which complicate swaps? 

Guibo gearbox output is fairly easy to adapt around with a welder and a lathe.....

Guibos also neutralize a LOT of drivetrain harmonics.  Very good thing.

While I like the idea of 'uncommon' engines with character and charisma, I like the idea of relatively modern throw-away engines that are reliable, efficient, cheap, and plentiful in salvage yards even more.  Being able to grenade the engine and simply grab another one at a moments notice for a few bucks is simply too appealing to me, even if it's an unlikely event in the first place. That's why I have a (non-DI) Focus 2.0 in my garage, just sitting around waiting for me to make progress on my Locost.  There are plenty of other ways I can make a car worse...I mean...add 'character'.

Then again, I'm not all that into (re)building engines either.

How hard could it be to mate a Honda ST1300 motor to a Miata trans?  

Hyabusa swap. :)

wheelsmithy said:

Another point: Don't those Alfas have guibo type driveshafts, which complicate swaps? 

What's wrong with it?  I know people who get upgraded giubos from BMW.  And the GT40 used them on their driveshafts.  

Easier to deal with them than fabricating, for most.  Oh, and the early GTV/Spider just has one; whereas the Alfetta, GTv6, and Milano all have 3.