Why Did Our Miata Blow Up at Daytona?

Tom Suddard wrote: Shoutout to Flyin' Miata, by the way, for sending us what we needed to rig up a proper low oil pressure warning system. If only they made something similar for coolant....

If you're concerned about warning of a coolant failure, you want 3 sensors feeding a big warning light or something. First sensor should be a temp switch that triggers once you're above what you'd consider "max safe temperature" for the engine in question.

The other input to the light involves a pair of sensors. One is a temperature switch that triggers at 180 or something that's a bit below thermostat temp for the engine. Run it in series with a pressure switch set for something like 7 psi. That way, you get a warning if you ever lose cooling system pressure when the engine is warmed up (this should only ever happen if a hose fails or something similar).

Yep, that's already our plan. Probably combined with a big tablet dash that will flash red and throw things at the driver.

Just pretend not everyone is one of the cool kids. What's Facebook live? Do you just go to the GRM facebook page and something will appear at 3:00??

I've heard about monitoring cooling system pressure, it seems like a pretty good idea. I might try it next time I'm doing a track build.

Keith Tanner wrote: I've heard about monitoring cooling system pressure, it seems like a pretty good idea. I might try it next time I'm doing a track build.

The key is just to make sure the warning point is far enough below cap release pressure. Some variation is normal (especially if the temps climb a bit and then drop back down), but if the pressure goes away, it's a good indication that something is wrong and the system has a leak.

Maybe a blow off port like the Nascars have but mounted in front of the driver.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Just pretend not everyone is one of the cool kids. What's Facebook live? Do you just go to the GRM facebook page and something will appear at 3:00??

Yep, pretty much. Go to the GRM Facebook page at 3:00 Eastern and you'll see it. You will probably have to click a window to launch the broadcast. The Facebook Live broadcasts are simulcast to our message board, too.

David S. Wallens wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Just pretend not everyone is one of the cool kids. What's Facebook live? Do you just go to the GRM facebook page and something will appear at 3:00??

Yep, pretty much. Go to the GRM Facebook page at 3:00 Eastern and you'll see it. You will probably have to click a window to launch the broadcast. The Facebook Live broadcasts are simulcast to our message board, too.

Yeah. This. If you watch here, though, you can't comment. We appreciate the hits on our site, but we also like the interaction. Fine with us either way. We try and monitor message board questions, but it's tough to keep up with a constant stream coming in from FB.

And we're live!

Yep, go to this thread's first page to see the simulcast.

Tom Suddard wrote: Yep, that's already our plan. Probably combined with a big tablet dash that will flash red and throw things at the driver.

Agh, had to drop off due to work of all things!!! I asked a Q on the teams view of LeMons Vs Chump but couldn't wait to here if there was a reply.

I was at Daytona. Saw you guys go by one time. Told the wife who loves photography to take some good pics of the yellow miata and pointed out the GRM car. I didn't know about all the misfortune going on. Got home the wife downloaded all her pics and they were full of yellow miata.....that other yellow miata. I asked her about it and she told me "you said yellow miata and that was the only damn yellow miata i saw". So I jumped on the forum and saw the sad headlines. So not only has the GRM miata let you guys down it got me in trouble! (not really)

Oh and the wife is demanding a better performance at the challenge or else! Or else what? I dont know but you have your marching orders gentlemen.

@iceracer I have my radiator overflow bottle mounted close to the leading edge of the hood so that when it starts to push water put it ends up on the windshield. I also fill the overflow 2/3 full as an early warning system. Last year my car popped the fan belt and before it really overheated it sprinkled water drops on the windshield. Note I live in the desert where we run in the rain once every 10 years.

Big red blinking lights are a good thing. Many years ago a friend who had run off road races said they started out with every gauge imaginable but eventually just put a big red light on the dash that went off for low oil pressure or high water temps. Other than the light the had a tach, oil pressure and water temp.

So what was the diagnosis?

I really like that low oil light/siren system you have.

rslifkin wrote:

Tom Suddard wrote: Shoutout to Flyin' Miata, by the way, for sending us what we needed to rig up a proper low oil pressure warning system. If only they made something similar for coolant....

If you're concerned about warning of a coolant failure, you want 3 sensors feeding a big warning light or something. First sensor should be a temp switch that triggers once you're above what you'd consider "max safe temperature" for the engine in question. The other input to the light involves a pair of sensors. One is a temperature switch that triggers at 180 or something that's a bit below thermostat temp for the engine. Run it in series with a pressure switch set for something like 7 psi. That way, you get a warning if you ever lose cooling system pressure when the engine is warmed up (this should only ever happen if a hose fails or something similar).

Too technical KISS remember? What I do on all my race cars is to eliminate as much of the rubber part of the hose as possible On cheapy race cars I take pieces of header kits (on nicer ones I'll use pre-bent aluminum tubing ) and weld up a hose that snakes around from the radiator to the water pump.. I connect it by short lengths of silicone hose double clamped. (if you have a motor that really moves around a lot use the flex piece on one or both ends)

If I really worried that the driver might not notice a lack of coolant it would be simple to put a tube in a loop up to the cowl in front of the driver A clear plastic tube would have water visible (OK you'd have to put something in the water to color it) and lack of water would remind the driver to check temps.. Low temp means stop no water to register!!!

rslifkin wrote:

Tom Suddard wrote: Shoutout to Flyin' Miata, by the way, for sending us what we needed to rig up a proper low oil pressure warning system. If only they made something similar for coolant....

If you're concerned about warning of a coolant failure, you want 3 sensors feeding a big warning light or something. First sensor should be a temp switch that triggers once you're above what you'd consider "max safe temperature" for the engine in question. The other input to the light involves a pair of sensors. One is a temperature switch that triggers at 180 or something that's a bit below thermostat temp for the engine. Run it in series with a pressure switch set for something like 7 psi. That way, you get a warning if you ever lose cooling system pressure when the engine is warmed up (this should only ever happen if a hose fails or something similar).

Instead of coolant temp, cylinder head temp should be monitored.

Coolant temp does not work at all when there's no coolant.

This is why every modern aluminum headed Ford truck has cylinder head temp instead of coolant temp.

(the side reason- it was known that iron block/head engines can limp home w/o coolant, but aluminum would warp. So to get home, we had to devise a system that could detect coolant loss, and then allow the car to limp in a way to move without coolant. It does work- during development, a truck was driven from Dearborn to Toledo and back with no coolant. It wasn't fast, or pretty, but it worked)

So if you can find a good chunk of head that's a good indicator of temp, and then make sure you have good contact between the sensor and the metal, that should do the trick.

In reply to alfadriver:

That's a good point. When I was thinking through that, I was figuring that a loss of coolant would trigger the pressure sensor. Short of a case where the engine is already very screwed (like a head gasket that's beyond gone), I can't think of a way you'd lose a bunch of coolant without de-pressurizing the system.

frenchyd wrote: If I really worried that the driver might not notice a lack of coolant it would be simple to put a tube in a loop up to the cowl in front of the driver A clear plastic tube would have water visible (OK you'd have to put something in the water to color it) and lack of water would remind the driver to check temps.. Low temp means stop no water to register!!!

Simple - as long as it's not the high point in the system. If it is, it'll collect any bubbles (and there will be bubbles) and you'll get a false reading of low coolant.

The lead photo highlights largest technological contribution to the greater good made by NASCAR in the last 20 years- the painting of seats different colors so that as a camera pans over a cup race it looks like somebody is there.

In reply to Shaun: Completely off topic.

There other hate Nascar pages.

Way back in 2005 I had the opportunity to watch an engine melt down at the end of a race (Daytona Prototype at Homestead). Some debris punctured the radiator with a handful of laps left. The pressure and temperature dropped and then the pressure came back up with low temp as the remaining water flashed off to steam, effectively pressurizing what was left of the cooling system. The temp stayed in the operational range since there was no coolant in contact with the sensor, but the pressure remained relatively normal after the first dip when the leak started.
I knew what was happening since I could see all the data on telemetry, and got the clearance to keep running since we were leading with only a few laps to go. Did not win and the motor was scrapped due to out of tolerance everything.

Moral of the story is: Once the engine is up to stabilized racing temps, a leak may not show up in temps and pressures as long as the leak is reasonably small.

iceracer wrote: In reply to Shaun: Completely off topic. There other hate Nascar pages.

I think he was trying to point out how NASCAR is no longer useful in the development of the modern automobile being so far behind the times and rule restrictive away from what is being built as opposed to other forms of motorsports that develop tech we use in the cars we buy. With a sarcastic comment toward NASCAR's dwindling fan base.

Or he could just be knocking NASCAR, what do I know? I am just post-whoring on this one.

So head gasket or head? I watched the end of the video that said there was a 3 cylinder engine with a single cylinder water pump but no clear path from the gasket.