Why do JL Jeep Wranglers have such a low towing capacity?

I can dig your prejudices and I won't try to talk you into a truck, even though it is one of the best solutions.  Incidentally, the stickers for Greenpeace, Bernie Sanders, Coexist, and Buddha on my brown redneck pickup haven't caused any fires or lightning strikes.

I would never recommend a Rover anything.  I won't go all ranty about it, but they are built to be a capable luxury off-roader and they truly suck at towing.  I tried an 18' travel trailer behind a Disco and nearly lost brakes and the Jatco vaporized at 40k.

Take your pick.  Pretty much any real SUV will do the trick.  Hard to find one that doesn't suck gas like a hooker with some blow, but they're out there.  I like the Porsche idea.

I am the kind of person who has been known on occasion to pull 6k behind a 1990 Dodge minivan.   

That being said I have also towed just over 5K behind an XJ.    

Loads were weighed at drop off....

Out of the two..  The minivan had a bit of extra power thanks to the turbo 2.5L and some help in the rear suspension as it was regularly loaded with tools and was FFFFAAAARRRRRR more capable at towing...   and it was terrible...  I love an XJ...   I wouldn't go anywhere over 35mph with more than 3k behind one...   

Had a first year JK unlimited for many years - it had 4:10's and the tow package - never towed a car with it but I used to haul one or two motorcycles pretty frequently - I thought it handled towing duties pretty well.

Odd thing that always confused me - U-Haul would not allow us to rent a trailer if we had the soft top fitted, yet they were happy to rent us a trailer if the hardtop was on instead .

pontiacstogo said:

Odd thing that always confused me - U-Haul would not allow us to rent a trailer if we had the soft top fitted, yet they were happy to rent us a trailer if the hardtop was on instead .

Injury liability payoffs are cheaper than death liability payoffs.

In reply to Curtis :

Curtis, no offense intended.  My rhetoric was meant to be 73% in jest.  I'm just seriously not a pick up guy unless its an autocross/hillclimb monster or it's towing my future historic F1 car!  Also to disprove stereotypes I actually have actual genuine friends who voted for, well, you know, that guy!

When you say you towed an 18' travel trailer behind a Disco, I assume that was a Disco I or II and not misnamed LR4 series with the 14" longer wheelbase and the Ford/Jag engine?

So Pepper Wagons.  Love the series I cars.  They had some serious off road capability.  Remember they sent basically stock vehicles with just safety equipment on the trans Siberian rally which is a cross between a Rally Raid and an overland adventure.  I know the mechanicals of those are pretty strong, except for plastic intake manifold issues.  But they are getting seriously old unless your aiming for semi beater territory.  Older than I want.  But the newer ones I know nothing about and I'm terrified of the electronics and the 'Porsche Tax' on parts.  It's not bad on the Boxster, but that's a cheap beater with early 90's tech in and dead easy to work on.  Enlighten me as to the newer cars.  I just stunned myself by hitting Autotrader and finding 25 of the 2011 up second gen cars for under $30K within 200 miles.  It looks like the various models have tow ratings from 5,900 - 7,700lb's with 'only' a112" wheelbase.  And while I doubt they would be affordable there is the 3.0L 406lb/ft turbo diesel!!!!

Adrian_Thompson said:

In reply to Curtis :

Curtis, no offense intended.  My rhetoric was meant to be 73% in jest.  I'm just seriously not a pick up guy unless its an autocross/hillclimb monster or it's towing my future historic F1 car!  Also to disprove stereotypes I actually have actual genuine friends who voted for, well, you know, that guy!

When you say you towed an 18' travel trailer behind a Disco, I assume that was a Disco I or II and not misnamed LR4 series with the 14" longer wheelbase and the Ford/Jag engine?

I knew you were mostly joking   I'm definitely a pickup/cargo van kinda guy, so I'm either a redneck or a child molester.

You are correct about the Disco.  I think it was a 2004, so Series 2.  Back when they still had Jatcos instead of ZFs

Keith Tanner said:

Adrian_Thompson said:

Hell, I've seen write ups where people have taken stock LR4's through (over?) Moab.  Lifting to me is the Jeep equivalent of Hellaflush hardparking.  Rant over.  

I used to be a trail leader at the Land Rover National Rally in Moab, so I think I can speak to this. During training, we learned how to deal with stock vehicles and there are a bunch of interesting trails they just can't do. Moab has hundreds if not thousands of miles of trails, so saying that a stock vehicle has been used there doesn't tell you much. Some offroaders are lifted for a reason! I know we're talking about a small minority, but remember that the hellaflush looks are all exaggerations of functional modifications made for performance too.

The above has very little to do with towing, but I do agree that the attributes of a good offroader and a good towing vehicle are in conflict. That's one reason I'm such a big fan of airbags for tow vehicles, they allow you to stiffen the suspension easily for towing use without extracting a penalty when you're unhooked.

I think AT may have meant to say the Rubicon Trail.  Over or through Moab makes no sense.

Curtis said:

I can dig your prejudices and I won't try to talk you into a truck, even though it is one of the best solutions. 

If you want to talk prejudices, the only read ot buy a Wrangler is if you want something to put No Fear stickers on while you obstruct people who actually contribute to society, cruising in the left lane in rush hour at exactly the same speed as the center lane, because berk anybody who wants to actually get to where they are going.  Also you have to have a 3' eBay LED lightbar on, all the time even in daylight, because you can't be a shiny happy person without being REALLY shiny and blinding everyone in front of you.

^ LOL I haven’t seen a No Fear sticker since about 2006.  Seriously.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

My Peppers are both first generation. The plastic coolant tube issue is no big deal and at this point I expect that most of them have been replaced with the aluminum fix (I think that's the issue you were talking about). I bought a Cayenne to replace a long line of Ford trucks from the 70s and 80s. I wanted towing, not terrible on gas, and comfortable to pick up family at the airport, or do a road trip. It is all that. The biggest annoyances have been headliner droop and lift-gate struts. Other than that they have been solid drivers, just needing regular maintenance. I don't treat them with much care, they are tools and not for show, but given the abuse they still look nice when I clean them up.

To find out more details about the later ones, you should check the forum at Rennlist and of course, this thread: My new DD, 2015 Cayenne Diesel, the Anti-Porsche

Re: Land Rovers/Range Rovers. They can be great if you buy the right one(s) - i.e. LR3/LR4 or certain L322 RR's. Mine towed the E36 and open trailer like a boss, but was too soft/short to safely pull the same car in a 20' V-nose enclosed. The aero of it didn't work. Any Jag-engined, ZF-transmissioned LR product would be great to drive and good off-road, although the towing situation would likely be iffy.

A lot of racer friends told me how much they loved their Cayennes/Touaregs when I bought my L322 RR. I liked how the L322 drove more, so I ignored them. But many of them are pulling 20-24' enclosed car trailers behind the VAG triplets and they apparently do well if set up right.

My Peppers are both first generation.

When I heard about you picking up one with minor issues for $1500 or something like that, it didn't register as a big deal at the time. Now that I own one and have embraced how good they are, I am always on the lookout for more at the right price as potential flips.

I've only put 12k on mine so far, from 142 to 154k, but I would say they are holding up better than your average 15  year old car. I've done some minor work to mine but nothing that stood out as objectionable for a 15 year old car with 150k miles.  

A 401 CJ said:

^ LOL I haven’t seen a No Fear sticker since about 2006.  Seriously.

I think they've all been replaced by "Salt Life" stickers these days. 

In reply to irish44j :

or hammer down or southern charm.

So, no idea where this is all going, but we are at least going to drive a new JL early next week to see what they are really like.  If we wait until I get a new Job I'm currently jonesing for the oil burning pepper wagon, but my wife thinks we may need to get something this summer after all.  So that brings us back to towing our current pop up camper.  We've pulled it with Edge's, Flex's and an Explorer.  I am stunned to see the official tow limit on the Flex is only 2K lb's as well.  Stupidly low and I tell you it can tow way more than that comfortably.

Looking around at Cte 'Ute's I see the Escape and KL Cherokee are both rated at 2K lb's.  The CR-V and RAV4 are both only 1,500lb's.  What else is there I'm not thinking of right now?

The new Blazer RS got high marks for it handling and ride in a recent test. Should do what you want.

Ooooo, I've jsut discovered the JL Cherokee tow rating goes up from 2,000 to 4,500lb's with AWD...

Ooooo, I've jsut discovered the JL Cherokee tow rating goes up from 2,000 to 4,500lb's with AWD...

I'm filing that under "things that make you go hmmmm". I'd tow 4500 with any of them, but I'm not sure what the reasoning is behind more than doubling the rating with AWD unless that is dictating the longer wheelbase and auto trans or something else actually relevant to towing.  

Not really relevant, since you are looking at JLUs, but I have a 2 door JK with the 3.6.  It tows my 4x8 trailer with canoe/kayaks all the time.  Real world weight = super light but sails because the canoe is 14.5'.  It also tows the same trailer loaded with firewood ok.  Real world weight = not super heavy.  I didn't get it to tow more than that.  I'd never try to tow a pop up or any other camper with it because it would suck. I also had an older 2007 JKU with the 3.8.  While a great vehicle at the time, it sucked for towing anything but my small Jeep trailer with camping stuff.  

I got a Jeep because I love Jeeps, I do not have it lifted, nor does it have a "bro brow" aka light bar, no fear sticker, or salt life sticker.  It also still has some red GA clay and TN red dirt underneath.   I got rid of my Mustang convertible because it couldn't take me to all the fishing spots I like to go to,  The Jeep gets me to the spots and the top still comes off.  :)   

If you want a capable luxury tower look at the Lexus GX460, bigger than the 4runner, smaller than the Land Cruiser, and a super comfy and tows pretty good.  My wife has one and we've used it to tow a 911 and Jeep TJ on a u-haul car hauler trailer.  It'd have no problem with your pop up. 

Drive safe ya'll

Vigo said:

Ooooo, I've jsut discovered the JL Cherokee tow rating goes up from 2,000 to 4,500lb's with AWD...

I'm filing that under "things that make you go hmmmm". I'd tow 4500 with any of them, but I'm not sure what the reasoning is behind more than doubling the rating with AWD unless that is dictating the longer wheelbase and auto trans or something else actually relevant to towing.  

I'm going to guess it's a combo of the 2wd version being FWD and possibly drivetrain strength with the front drive bits not having to take as much of the power on the AWD version.  FWD sucks for towing, as tongue weight ends up giving you more weight to move while reducing the weight on your drive wheels.  Add a hill in the rain from a stop to further reduce traction and transfer weight off the front wheels and it can become a real problem.  

Vigo said:

Ooooo, I've jsut discovered the JL Cherokee tow rating goes up from 2,000 to 4,500lb's with AWD...

I'm filing that under "things that make you go hmmmm". I'd tow 4500 with any of them, but I'm not sure what the reasoning is behind more than doubling the rating with AWD unless that is dictating the longer wheelbase and auto trans or something else actually relevant to towing.  

The logical answer is (probably) that some of the torque gets split between two axles instead of all on one axle.  The problem is, that suggests that the axle is stupidly weak, which we know isn't the case.  Adding AWD that sends a variable amount of torque to the front doesn't more than double the tow rating.

Marketing and bean counters.  All of it.

If I had a RWD JL that said 2000, and an AWD JL that said 4500, I would tow 4500 with either one.  The important things to me are that the chassis can safely handle the load, the sway, and the heat.  So as long as the other components are the same, I would go for it.

Just like my example before; 94 Mazda B-truck.  4WD and the manual transmission means it's rated for 3500.  Automatic/2WD is rated for 5000 in the same configuration.  Curiously, the 3.0L/Auto/2wd is only rated for 2500 with the only difference being the smaller engine.  To me, that means (with some caveats) 5000 lbs.  In the case of the B-truck and Rangers, The transmissions, frame, brakes, radiator, etc are all the same regardless of what engine is in it.

I'm not recommending this for anyone, it's just what I do because I have spent a crazy amount of time towing and knowing how to treat a clutch, engine, driveline, brakes, etc when towing so it doesn't explode.

In reply to Curtis :

Looks like you're confusing the JL Wrangler and the KL Cherokee (which was typo-ed to say JL).  The KL is the one with the lower tow rating in 2wd.  

Just to add, he V6 RAV4 will tow 3,500 when equipped with the tow package, but they stopped making them in 2012. So if you're looking newer that won't work for you.

Looks like you're confusing the JL Wrangler and the KL Cherokee (which was typo-ed to say JL).  The KL is the one with the lower tow rating in 2wd.  

I definitely did. I saw JL and assumed Wrangler. The Cherokee doesn't even have different wheelbases, lol.