Wider track, or not? (Miata subframe into a Europa)

In reply to ProDarwin :

Did you mean stock Miata track width, or Europa?

(People have said both)

SVreX said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

Did you mean stock Miata track width, or Europa?

(People have said both)

Doh.  Maintain Miata suspension geometry.  Plus, fender flares are awesome :)

Yeah I would absolutely not try to narrow the Miata subframe. Talk about introducing difficult variables (the ones you don't even know you are introducing!)

Now, be careful, many cars seem to have a slightly wider front track than rear; rather than being square.

But yeah, big flares, make the front wider to match. If you're only off by a couple inches (53-55) then just grab a set of spacers.

ProDarwin said:

SVreX said:

 The original track of the Miata is 59.2", and the Miata subframe has been installed in keeping with the Europa's original 53.3" track width. 

+1 to what others have said (maintain stock track width).  But FYI the above is NC or ND track width.  NA/NB (which is what is pictured right?) are in the 55/56" range (depending on wheel size/offset)

Going back to the original pics - I don't see where that subframe was purportedly narrowed. I think that's untouched.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

The remains of the original Europa chassis are still there. The builder added material INSIDE the chassis to attach the subframe to. But the subframe is WIDER than the chassis. I'd have to add material to the OUTSIDE of the chassis. 
 

Plus, the top rails of the subframe have clearly been cut off, which makes it 2 halves, not 1 whole subframe. 

I was uncomfortable with the 6" variation. ProDarwin caught my error, and I'm not uncomfortable with the 2" variation, so the subframe stays. 
 

Thanks guys!

SVreX said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

The remains of the original Europa chassis are still there. The builder added material INSIDE the chassis to attach the subframe to. But the subframe is WIDER than the chassis. I'd have to add material to the OUTSIDE of the chassis. 
 

Plus, the top rails of the subframe have clearly been cut off, which makes it 2 halves, not 1 whole subframe. 

I'm still not seeing the subframe mods. I think this car is closer to your final result than you think.

Thinking about this - are you expecting there to be more structure above what's there on the Miata subframe? Because there isn't. Nothing really protrudes above the upper control arm mounting points. The shock tops mount to the unibody, which is completely absent here :) 

Cut the lotus rails and weld tabs on the front face of the subframe to attach it to the rest.  I'd also triangulate from the bottom front corners of the subframe up to where the lotus forks, and probably work in the ppf attachment for the dif too, but that would be it.

Robbie said:

Now, be careful, many cars seem to have a slightly wider front track than rear; rather than being square.

True, but mostly for cars that are front heavy. Generally speaking, you want more grip (and thus wider track) where the car has more weight. Front engine - front wider. Rear engine - rear wider.

So when Miata suspension goes into an Europa, same track all round or slightly (slightly, no more than 5%, probably less) wider rear is probably beneficial. 

For reference and to support what has been said earlier; for "reasons" i ran my Capri with a wider rear track for a number of years, something like 75 mm wider rear track (just over 5%). That is a front engined car and it was rather pushy with that setup. Much better now when the front is made wider.

Gustaf

If you want any detail pics of the Zoomboni just let me know.  Or look at it yourself when you come get this transmission.

In reply to KyAllroad (Jeremy) :

I forgot you ended up with that...

In reply to Keith Tanner :

No, I'm not expecting more structure above. I'd just like to try to consider using the sub frame. Any additional structure, I'll have to build.