Will a $20,000 Porsche 914 scratch my 911/912 itch?

I already have a '63 Beetle, an MGA and an NC Miata.

It's not like I need another two seat sports car and storage would be more challenging.

I love the fact that the beetle is not a sports car and that it's a 1960's economy car.  I love it for what it is so I don't want to sell it.

That said I've wanted an old 911 or 912 for along time.  I will never have one unless a lottery win comes in.

So would a nice 2 litre 914 fit the bill or mod my beetle to get it to be a little more "Porsche"

I would love to hear your opinions on this!

Thanks all!

It's a very different car from a 911/912. If you want one of those, the answer is no.

A decent 914 is a very different, and fun car.

After owning one of the highest scoring restored 1.7 examples NO, NO it will not. A restored example is not as fun as you think they are. 

If you are getting a 2.0 that is prepped for hard driving or track work, that is properly sorted and does not have rust then yes, its actually better then most 911s in the 25-30K range you will find.  

There is no amount of money or power that you can put into a Beetle that will overcome the basic problems with the platform. Trust me on this, you will break the functionality of the car long before it gets truly fast. I ended up building a 550 spyder after trying. 

Real answer, sell the NC or MGA add it to your cash, get it up to around 40-45K and buy a prepped 911 for the style of driving that you do and save time and money over building your own. But the hard answer here is the NC is not 25% the fun of a 911/914 its about 75% so your chasing diminishing returns. 

wearymicrobe said:

After owning one of the highest scoring restored 1.7 examples NO, NO it will not. A restored example is not as fun as you think they are. 

If you are getting a 2.0 that is prepped for hard driving or track work, that is properly sorted and does not have rust then yes, its actually better then most 911s in the 25-30K range you will find.  

There is no amount of money or power that you can put into a Beetle that will overcome the basic problems with the platform. Trust me on this, you will break the functionality of the car long before it gets truly fast. I ended up building a 550 spyder after trying. 

Real answer, sell the NC or MGA add it to your cash, get it up to around 40-45K and buy a prepped 911 for the style of driving that you do and save time and money over building your own. But the hard answer here is the NC is not 25% the fun of a 911/914 its about 75% so your chasing diminishing returns. 

Ok, the 914 I would be looking at is a stock 2L rust free car.

I guess what I'm trying to somewhat replicate is the driving feel of an air cooled Porsche for as little cost as possible.  The outright performance of the car isn't really that important. I know that $20k could be spent really quickly on building a bug.

The 914 that's being offered is an all original 2L car, unrestored, nice driver.

Yes, the NC is just a brilliant car, but it doesn't sound anything like an air cooled VW or Porsche.  But it covers my needs for a somewhat safe, sports car with air conditioning and a retractable hard top.  When I've had enough of vintage cars I jump in the NC and enjoy the freedom it brings.

I want to be an enabler. Build something like this with a tube frame, Miata suspension, and Subaru turbo 4 banger and transaxle in a mid engine layout (if there was enough room, if not, you might have to cut it in half behind the doors and lengthen it a few inches). I would build it with a water proof interior similar to a speed boat. With a Bimini top. www.jps-motorsports.com: Custom Flared Speedster

So, just what make these old Porsches so wanted? Is it the feel of driving them? The looks of driving them? It can't be the speed and cornering ability of driving them, even mini vans might give some of them a run for their money nowadays. I couldn't afford a 911T almost 50 years ago and still can't today, so I built up a Volvo 1800 that at least can play with them for a lot less money. 

I realize this is kind of a purist thread with stock Porsches being the goal, but I have recently been putting some thought into how to build a Porsche I would like to own. However, my motto is "Stock Sucks", so how about building a modern version of an old car?

Let's start with a super wide body 356 Speedster fiberglass kit car body lengthened 7.32" through the middle of the doors and dropped onto a Factory Five 818 tube frame with its Subaru WRX based suspension and mid engine placed drive train.

Please note that the Karmen Ghia is the giant in this field.  I haven't tried to work out any costs for something like this yet but it should push all of the right Porsche buttons for a lot less $$$.

https://www.factoryfive.com: Factory Five 818 Sports Car $10,000

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com: 2013 Factory Five 818

Unfortunately, my antique version of AutoCAD can't make these photos semi-transparent, so just pretend they are.

I suffer the same dilemma.

While I can "just" afford the 911 or 356 I want, I find the prices insane for what they are. The fact that I end up driving 911s while instructing at PCA track days doesn't help.

With all that said I've driven every generation of 911 on track as well as having autocrossed a friends 912 & 2.0 914.

My take is this; the 2.0 will fill the air cooled Porsche need. It won't have the same wonderful exhaust note as the flat six but the controls on the 914 are similar enough to the same generation of 911/912.

The 2.0 motor can be upgraded to about 110-120hp at the rear wheels without a lot of trouble and that will help alot. 

From a performance standpoint your NC Miata will crush the 914 regardless of what you do to it........but that really isn't what a 914 is about is it. Of course the same thing holds true for a 70s 911.

If you have a line on a 914 go drive it before you decide.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Thanks! 

It does get harder and harder these days to justify the prices of all of these vintage cars I've lusted for when my NC just is a better car all around.

It's just a little more blunted in rawness and doesn't really stand out.

But dollar for dollar there's just no comparison and not having to worry about getting caught in a rainstorm or in 30 degree celsius traffic jams with no a/c is still so foreign to me after years and years of bare bones fun cars.

The 914 would be another car that would only come out on nice days, dry roads in light traffic.  I do have to weigh that in consideration when I have two other cars that have the same use.

One has to be careful or they'll get what they wish for!

I was pondering this and went 911 after being able to drive both platforms.  The 914 is its own thing. Not bad but not a 911.  

In reply to dean1484 :

So if you were not able to afford a 911 would you have settled for a 914 or just gone for another completely different car?

Here in Canada you will be hard pressed to find a nice running air cooled 911 for under $60,000.

You gotta drive one to see.  No amount of words will accurately communicate the 914 experience.  Not calling it good or bad but it is an extremely well designed car with regards to mid engine handling.  Now the opinion  part:

It needs more power, 120 is a reasonable number for the 2.0 but it also needs tires from this century for decent stick.  Now the chassis flex and brakes will not keep up.  After all this you may still get smoked by cars you don't want to lose to.  And they have AC!  But on the plus side I think the bottom hinge pedals make heel and toe much easier.

Still, do find a decent example and drive it.  I took a spin in a half decent one this summer and did enjoy it.  Not enough to fork over the silly number they thought it was worth. Still looking for the right gen 1 MR2 though, for the street they are just as much fun and have AC.

My 914 is like a go kart that I wouldn't want to drive cross country.  I believe I would drive a 912 though; it's just roomier and softer.  911 in a heartbeat.

Older 914s were carbed 4 speeds, the 2.0 are FI 5 speed, easier on distance driving.

what about a 996?  it's not an aircooled 911 but it's still a ton of car for the money and $20k gets you a decent one and a bit more gets you a really nice one.  

I've owned a 1973 911T targa and a 1972 914 2.0.  I drove the 914 on the street for several years while building it into a PCA stock-class race car.

The 914 is a neat car.  I enjoyed the open interior and loved the dash board and the VDO gauges.  The interior is spacious yet, with the firewall just behind you, is also cozy.  While I am not a convertible person it was fun to remove the roof on nice days, while the rest of the time the hard roof is nicer than a fabric convertible top.  It tickled me that the view of the back end, especially with the lower bumper surround removed, reminded me of the similar view of the (also mid-engined) 917.  If you want the feel of a sporty VW the 914 should satisfy you.

The 911 had sport seats and triple Webers; I'm guessing it had been autocrossed sometime in the past.  I bought it not running, got it running again before soon selling it (in 2003, before values took off, sadly).

Yes, both cars have air-cooled, boxer engines behind you and, in my case, both were targas.  Both have the sweet dashboard with the awesome VDO gauges.  Both cars are from the same period in automotive history.  Both of my cars had Weber carbs.  Both tops leaked, no matter what.  But boy, they are not very similar.

The 911 engine loves to rev and sounds awesome.  The 914 engine, even rebuilt with 9.0 compression, dual Webers, electronic ignition and headers, didn't like to rev and always felt like it was out of its' element, and maybe even like redlining it was abusing it.  So the 914 will feel like a hotrodded beetle but it won't ever feel like a 911.  The 914 was built by VW to be a VW and it feels like a VW.  The 911, exactly as people say, is a hand-built car constructed to high standards and it feels like it.  The doors close with that sound, even a targa.  The interior is miles nicer than a 914.  The entire car seems to have had more money spent on engineering, and to have had more development time.  The 914 feels like an old sports-car that you keep running while the 911 feels like an heirloom you preserve for future generations.  I love the air-cooled cars (I had a Beetle in high school) and I love 914s but they are very different than 911s.

I love mid-engine cars and the 914 definitely has those mid-engined advantages.  It was awesome to be able to out-trail-brake 911s into decreasing radius turns like turn 5 at Pueblo and turn 3 at Mid-America due to the superior weight distribution.  Each car enjoys a unique exterior design.  The 914 has motorsports heritage but, obviously, nothing like the 911 has.  The 914 has a following but not like the 911.  It has been good to see the 914 get more respect and to see its' values appreciating.

Their similarities are more obvious; I hope this gives you some perspective on their differences.

I own a non stock 1970 914.  I would not own a stock one, limited by that point of time that the car was first produced.

But what I use the car for is my guide.  If your goal is showing the car, to what level do you embrace that world?

The first thing you update or enhance is a rabbit hole of "what if".  My car was the most complete combination of upgrades that fixes the car, I could find and afford.  I would not want to experience that original tail shifting transmission at speed, going down through the gears.  

I will admit my goals are a driving experience, my car satisfies that.  It is not a 911.  That is not my goal and desire with this car. 

914Driver said:

.Older 914s were carbed 4 speeds, the 2.0 are FI 5 speed, easier on distance driving.

From the factory all 914s were 5 speed and Bosch FI , many have been changed to carbs .

and a interesting  thing is a "2 liter" 914 is only 1911 cc

My friend built a 914 with a built Covair 140 hp motor , a cheap 914-6 :)

When looking at one , check the "Hell hole" under the battery which is a normal place for rust and if real bad gets into the chassis. Fixable but a lot of work.

What about a 914-6? Some people like them more than 911s.

I have an air cooled 911, I've never driven a 914, but this conversation came up recently with a friend of mine. He had a 914, a really nice one, but always wanted a air cooled 911. He looked for awhile but couldn't get the numbers to match where he could sell the 914 and add enough to get to a aircooled 911. However he did what @ClearWaterMS suggested and bought a nice 996.  His is a manual convertible with the IMS addressed. He's driven air cooled 911s but he fully states that the 996 not only scratches his 911 itch, but is also really nice to have a working power top and air conditioning on those hot summer days. 

I am a mid-engined guy. I have a Cayman S and a 914 (and a '68 Ghia). One works the other rusts. I have driven a few 911s over the years.

A while back I got to drive a 2.0l 914 in the same Cali canyons I have pounded relentlessly in my 987.1. It was my first time driving a 914. The smile did not leave my face for a week.

Go drive them both then make the decision.

brownb said:

wearymicrobe said:

After owning one of the highest scoring restored 1.7 examples NO, NO it will not. A restored example is not as fun as you think they are. 

If you are getting a 2.0 that is prepped for hard driving or track work, that is properly sorted and does not have rust then yes, its actually better then most 911s in the 25-30K range you will find.  

There is no amount of money or power that you can put into a Beetle that will overcome the basic problems with the platform. Trust me on this, you will break the functionality of the car long before it gets truly fast. I ended up building a 550 spyder after trying. 

Real answer, sell the NC or MGA add it to your cash, get it up to around 40-45K and buy a prepped 911 for the style of driving that you do and save time and money over building your own. But the hard answer here is the NC is not 25% the fun of a 911/914 its about 75% so your chasing diminishing returns. 

Ok, the 914 I would be looking at is a stock 2L rust free car.

I guess what I'm trying to somewhat replicate is the driving feel of an air cooled Porsche for as little cost as possible.  The outright performance of the car isn't really that important. I know that $20k could be spent really quickly on building a bug.

The 914 that's being offered is an all original 2L car, unrestored, nice driver.

Yes, the NC is just a brilliant car, but it doesn't sound anything like an air cooled VW or Porsche.  But it covers my needs for a somewhat safe, sports car with air conditioning and a retractable hard top.  When I've had enough of vintage cars I jump in the NC and enjoy the freedom it brings.

 

Its not as far off as you think. 5-7K in work to a NC makes for one hell of a car. From experience it will be significantly more reliable as well. Cheap 911s are cheap for a reason and they can and will quickly bankrupt you. 

"911/912 itch" The 912 is the 911 with a different approach and is special in it's own way. Looks like a 996 follows the 911 theme .  My street  914-4 is great on the early morning  clear roads, just with a few mods. Standalone EFI was one, but that's a project . If the itch  is 911 ish the 914-4 is a different scratch .

brownb said:

In reply to dean1484 :

So if you were not able to afford a 911 would you have settled for a 914 or just gone for another completely different car?

Here in Canada you will be hard pressed to find a nice running air cooled 911 for under $60,000.

My brain is stuck on $20k for a 914.

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone!

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Me as well.  And $60k for a 912...

brownb said:

In reply to dean1484 :

So if you were not able to afford a 911 would you have settled for a 914 or just gone for another completely different car?

Here in Canada you will be hard pressed to find a nice running air cooled 911 for under $60,000.

I would stretch the budget a bit and go 996. If 20k is a hard stop I would go boxster. I would also look at the cayman market. I don't know what the market on early ones of those are.  All of these are better at being like a 911.  BUT you won't have that intangible air cooled feeling you get in a early air cooled 911. For me the 914 was very different. I think it is the wheelbase or something. I am also not as much of a fan of the 914 from a looks standpoint. I don't hate it it is just that the early 1970s 911 were posters on my bedroom walls. They were and are a car I aspire to own. The 914 not so much.  I know that really is not a reason that may apply to you but it was a big one for me.  
 

There is one exception. I drove a real 914-6. Those are special. They to me feel different. It felt much more solid and extremely capable. I don't know if the chasies had been reinforced or if it was because it was a fresh restoration. I was told it was stock but it had that intangible Porsche feeling to it.  It would not replace my lust for a 911. It would just delay the inevitable.  
 

Lastly if you are willing to work for things and get someone's project they are out there. They usually trade hands in the 911 community privately. I am currently restoring a 72 long nose that all in I will probibly at 35-40k with out paint/body so say 50k all in?  But I will have a car worth 80k?  100k?  The incomplete 911 project car market is soft as most purchasers of these cars want turn key perfect cars. Another example I am looking at is a 100 percent complete ready to assemble 911 for 60k that the market sais is a 120k car.  It is a 70s RS clone that was just stripped back to metal and painted. So some assembly required but these are stupid simple cars. Two people can take a shell starting on a Friday afternoon and have a completed car the following Monday. With out braking a sweat and getting home for dinner.
 

I am stupid to not do it. But I have friends who are Porsche experts that I trust to put a car together for me and to do things with an eye towards preserving or better yet adding value to a car.  We have been doing it on and off when the right car comes along (not all 911s but I stick to Porsche as I know the brand). I finance the car and parts and hold the title. They do the work at there shop rate. They/we then sell car when done. Everyone gets their money out of the car and we split the profit. Non of us can make a living at this but it is fun to do and helps fund some of my more emotional based car purchases.

BTW. What is 60k Canadian in American money?  Maybe I should be looking up there for cars?  

I just looked it up. If 60k Canadian is getting a well sorted early 70s 911 I need to look in to getting one up there. That is $43,675.50 us. For a well sorted car ready to drive that is a fantastic price.