Will the 5.0l Cummins Find a new Home?

Nissan is dumping the Cummins from the Titan.

http://www.trucktrend.com/news/1908-2020-nissan-titan-xd-cummins-diesel/

They claim poor sales, but it seems every current gen Titan I see on the road is an XD with the Cummins badge.  It's not like I'm looking for them, but they're hard to miss with their, uhhh... unique appearance.

I recall that the engine or an ancestor of it, was originally destined for the Dodge/Ram trucks before Fiat bought them and said, "no thanks we've already got one." i.e. VM Motori.

So will another make pick up the Cummins badge?  Seems a shame to let it die, I'm assuming it's not used in anything else.

GM has an I6 Duramax coming out for 2020 in their 1/2 tons.  Ford has a Peugeot, Citroën, Land Rover, based V6 "Power Stroke" diesel in the F150.  Ram has the VM Motori.   There's been talk of a Tundra with an oil burner for years.

Surely Cummins is shopping this engine around, and won't just shelf it.  Maybe it'll at least get added to their Repower line up?

Don't they sell as many in a year as Ford sells in a week, or something crazy like that?

Sounds like if you have seen more than one, you may be living in the prime market.

I think the guys wanting a diesel are going for the bigger truck (Ford, Ram, DMax).  Besides, the 5.6 gasser out towed the 5.0 Cummins up the IKe Gauntlet on TFL Truck.  

As a side note, the game might be changing too.  Now that the 8 and 10 speed transmissions are out that can effectively mask the performance deficit of a peaky engine (typical gas engine), you may start to see the gassers winning the tow wars more often.  1000 lbs ft is nice.  But if I have enough gears to keep a higher hp engine in its powerband, and I don’t mind letting it rev out, the stopwatch will not always favor the diesel.  They ruled the roost when we only had three, four, or five ratios in the box.  Ten?  Well, now the massive torque produced by the engine starts to become less and less important.

That poor engine has the most convoluted and dragged out development history, tossed around from customer to customer and changing scope. It ended up in a weird segment, too big for a half ton but not as big as the 6.7. It will probably just die a quiet death. 

It is being used heavily in pusher RVs.  Many motorhome manufacturers have switched over to the 5.0L from the ISB.

I want to swap one into the back of a C8 

captdownshift said:

I want to swap one into the back of a C8 

Pleasepleaseprettyplease do this. Make sure there’s dual 10” stacks out the hatch and some truck nutz hanging off the back end too. 

In reply to A 401 CJ :

Diesels are the peaky engines, though.  A powerband of 1500-2500rpm is like a powerband from 3000-5000 and gas engines tend to have much wider powerbands than that, especially in this era of variable valve timing and the ridiculous table-flat seemingly idle to redline torque curves of the Ecoboosts.

They never felt powerful. We had those as the rescue truck at COTA. Load it up with 4 guys and all of our rescue gear and it just fet sluggish.The 5.6 Gasser felt better in every way. So the value statement to go and buy one of these is not very strong so I think it will just be put out to pasture. 

I was surprised when that news came out. There are a lot of them around here, and Nissan sure pumped them up. And it seems crazy to dump all that development money so soon, in a segment everyone else is just jumping into.

bearmtnmartin said:

I was surprised when that news came out. There are a lot of them around here, and Nissan sure pumped them up. And it seems crazy to dump all that development money so soon, in a segment everyone else is just jumping into.

Odd that people are "jumping into" light duty Diesels at a time when the Big 3 are developing heavy-duty gasoline engines for their trucks to replace the Diesels on the request of fleets who want to save on fuel costs and maintenance.

I know Ford has their new pushrod 7.3l V8.  Have heard scuttlebutt about GM and Chrysler also following suit.  Also, an aside, every Isuzu medium-duty truck I've seen that was made in the past few years had a 6.0 gasoline engine, not an Isuzu Diesel...

The advantage of diesels in heavily regulated use is shrinking to nil. Of course, they'll continue to dominate industrial use cases where regulation is lax to nonexistent.  

I could see Cummins offering the 5.0  as a crate engine like they do for some others.

Knurled. said:

bearmtnmartin said:

I was surprised when that news came out. There are a lot of them around here, and Nissan sure pumped them up. And it seems crazy to dump all that development money so soon, in a segment everyone else is just jumping into.

Odd that people are "jumping into" light duty Diesels at a time when the Big 3 are developing heavy-duty gasoline engines for their trucks to replace the Diesels on the request of fleets who want to save on fuel costs and maintenance.

 

I know Ford has their new pushrod 7.3l V8.  Have heard scuttlebutt about GM and Chrysler also following suit.  Also, an aside, every Isuzu medium-duty truck I've seen that was made in the past few years had a 6.0 gasoline engine, not an Isuzu Diesel...

The report has been gm is working on a gas engine well in excess of 8 litre  but ofcourse gm had a over 8 litre truck engine with the 8.1.

MotorsportsGordon said:

Knurled. said:

bearmtnmartin said:

I was surprised when that news came out. There are a lot of them around here, and Nissan sure pumped them up. And it seems crazy to dump all that development money so soon, in a segment everyone else is just jumping into.

Odd that people are "jumping into" light duty Diesels at a time when the Big 3 are developing heavy-duty gasoline engines for their trucks to replace the Diesels on the request of fleets who want to save on fuel costs and maintenance.

 

I know Ford has their new pushrod 7.3l V8.  Have heard scuttlebutt about GM and Chrysler also following suit.  Also, an aside, every Isuzu medium-duty truck I've seen that was made in the past few years had a 6.0 gasoline engine, not an Isuzu Diesel...

The report has been gm is working on a gas engine well in excess of 8 litre  but ofcourse gm had a over 8 litre truck engine with the 8.1.

GM did introduce a new 6.6L gas engine in the 2500HDs for 2020.

I also seem to recall that the Titan XD suffered from a fair amount of engine troubles. For example, C&D's long-term test rig repeatedly and mysteriously drained it's coolant bottle and went into Reduced Power Mode, as well as needing injector replacement before 40k miles. It also wiped out a power steering pump at 10k miles. They were highly unimpressed with the truck overall. Examples:

"Our long-term Nissan Titan XD Diesel was one of the most disappointing new vehicles we have evaluated in recent memory, a distinction highlighted by our truck’s serious mechanical issues and grounded in its general inability to endear when it was healthy."

"For how massive and unwieldy this Titan XD is on the road, its payload and towing maximums of 2003 and 12,037 pounds, respectively, are eclipsed by those of some light-duty trucks."

Other logbook entries expressed wonderment at Nissan’s approval of the XD’s uncouth Aisin six-speed automatic. Even after two computer reflashes under warranty, the Titan’s transmission lurched through its ratios under acceleration and, with equal abruptness, clunked into gear at slower speeds. “It’s hard to believe someone could sign off on this transmission calibration,” noted assistant technical editor David Beard.

“This truck is just shockingly bad. Previously, I had only been in the Titan with a trailer attached. Sadly, it drives like it’s towing even when it’s not.” —Jeff Sabatini

“Never have I jumped into a vehicle this new and been this unsure of its capabilities to make it home issue-free.” —Nathan Petroelje

“Overall, an underwhelming-from-the-ground-up effort on a new full-size pickup.” —Dave VanderWerp

that engine was originally developed in v8 and v6 form for dodge.. who went with vm motori instead..  Then re jiggered for a trial as the replacement for the humvee, then once again for nissan..

Cummins built a new factory for it in Columbus, Indiana..  Looks like they are doubling down on an electric drivetrain now..  I doubt they'll push this engine too hard on other manufactureres..  Where will they go?  everyone has already turned it down, twice..

In reply to NickD :

Ouch.  I see C&D still pulls no punches.

Since this thread has a huge amount of overlap with another recent thread I'll just reiterate what i said here.

I think Nissan made a big mistake when they changed course on their diesel plans. Way back in 2010 Nissan had a Titan running around with a 2.8L Cummins that they estimated would be rated 28mpg combined city/hwy. This  was 4 years before Ram became the first half-ton diesel. It would have been a big deal if Nissan was first to market with a half-ton diesel, especially one with the trusted Cummins name. But, they changed course and not only were they not the first half-ton diesel, they're now the ONLY half-ton diesel that DOESN'T get great fuel economy! Ok, so you don't have great fuel economy. But then you compare it to other diesels that don't get great fuel economy and it's ALSO by far the slowest and lowest tow rating! 12,000 lbs? Not only is it basically no better than the gas tow rating, it's also slightly short of the THIRTY thousand lbs that the big diesels are rated at in their top spec 1 ton trucks.  So where does this 5.0 reside in the grand scheme of things? An unexceptional engine in an unexceptional truck? At least if it was a 28mpg 4cyl  people would be choosing a Nissan over a GM/Ford/Ram and a Cummins over a VM Motori, Powerstroke, or Duramax for perceived reliability reasons, and they'd be mostly right about it!  

Instead, it's an also-ran. A huge improvement over the 1st Titan, a perfectly decent gas half ton, but also a massive miscalculation and a study in coulda woulda shouldas. 

an underwhelming-from-the-ground-up effort on a new full-size pickup

^^^^ 

In reply to Knurled. :

I respect that about them. Like when they said they couldn't recommend going anywhere near the Giulia Quadrifoglio to readers after their disastrous long-term test.

THIS is a REAL Cummins truck haha!  I'm #winning 

Since this thread got bumped up, I'll mention my recent Titan experience:

A few months back, I drove a buddy's diesel Titan with a 24' enclosed trailer hooked up. And it was... not good. In fact, it was slowwwwww. Seriously, I'd pick my V10 F-250 before this thing. And when empty, yep, still drove like it had 10,000 pounds on the back.

So why'd he buy it? It was the cheapest way to get a loaded diesel truck. IIRC he paid like $30k for a loaded Titan XD crew cab when it was a year old. 

I wonder what, if any, tuning options are available for the 5.0.  I know that on my old pre-emissions diesel ('00 7.3 PSD) it made ALL the difference.  That truck went from zero to hero.  And yes the EGT's stay in check, the trans fluid stays in check, it's all good.  And when it isn't, I just turn it down a notch since I can select how aggressive it is.  

Tom Suddard said:

Since this thread got bumped up, I'll mention my recent Titan experience:

A few months back, I drove a buddy's diesel Titan with a 24' enclosed trailer hooked up. And it was... not good. In fact, it was slowwwwww. Seriously, I'd pick my V10 F-250 before this thing. And when empty, yep, still drove like it had 10,000 pounds on the back.

So why'd he buy it? It was the cheapest way to get a loaded diesel truck. IIRC he paid like $30k for a loaded Titan XD crew cab when it was a year old. 

My uncle got one about 2 years ago. He's been in everything from a Ford L series to a Tundra, (as well as numerous Odysseys) and everything in between including the "real" Cummins dodges. 
 

I think he would admit that part of him just wants a diesel for "reasons", but it is also a good middle ground of more than a half ton, less than a 3/4 ton (so... a 5/8 ton?); it pulls boats and small trailers with aplomb, and can still pull the livestock trailers the few times a year he needs it to do that. No, it isn't as good as the duallies he's had for that in the past, but he's only doing that a few times a year whereas he's driving unloaded or just with a boat far more often. 

In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :

I get that.  Part of me sees the appeal with the theoretical simplicity of a Diesel, given that it seems like 90% of the time a gasoline engine has an issue it is ignition related, and Diesel will basically run about the same on anything, no worry about poor octane from Joe's Discount Gas -n- Gulp, or that weird fuel blend they use in Illinois that reliably makes any car I own lean-stumble under cruise.

But there's theoretical simplicity, and then there's the reality of what modern engine control really is like.  More sensors and extra controls than a Saturn V rocket.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :

I get that.  Part of me sees the appeal with the theoretical simplicity of a Diesel, given that it seems like 90% of the time a gasoline engine has an issue it is ignition related, and Diesel will basically run about the same on anything, no worry about poor octane from Joe's Discount Gas -n- Gulp, or that weird fuel blend they use in Illinois that reliably makes any car I own lean-stumble under cruise.

 

But there's theoretical simplicity, and then there's the reality of what modern engine control really is like.  More sensors and extra controls than a Saturn V rocket.

Unfortunately common rails are the antithesis of simple.  And they are extremely picky about fuel.  Gas wins hands down if it "has to run or you die".  Yeah I know, most Ambulances are diesel these days.