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Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
4/26/23 3:39 p.m.

I just wrapped up another 1000-mile-long trip on my budget adventure bike, as we rode the Georgia Traverse last weekend then I added another 500 miles visiting friends in Alabama. So I've started daydreaming about an upgrade.


 

Don't get me wrong: the little BMW single has been a trooper, and taken every bit of abuse I've thrown at it while getting 50mpg. But I'd like something that's less buzzy and more comfortable at 75mph. I'd like better wind protection. I'd like cruise control, and I'd really like more supension travel and better damping. And I'd like all of this without a massive weight increase over the G650GS.

Basically, I think I've learned the basics of adventure riding and am now ready to switch bikes to something better and more tailored to my use. I don't have a real budget in mind yet, but this won't be a project and I'm willing to spend some money to be ready to go right out of the box. Say $10-$15k for a slightly used bike.

My ideal bike would comfortably knock down 500 miles of highway to ride to the forest, then blast down gravel roads for a long weekend with me and my camping gear on it. Then, it would carve twisty roads for 500 miles on the trip back home.

My heart is saying Africa Twin, while I know a big BMW is the default answer here. But are there any I'm missing? Any advice?

bmw88rider
bmw88rider GRM+ Memberand UberDork
4/26/23 3:46 p.m.

Just get the 2 cylinder mid-size. The F750 and 800 GS are not much heavier and ride really nice with a lot less buzz. 

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago GRM+ Memberand UberDork
4/26/23 6:44 p.m.

Follow your heart, the Africa Twin is dope. 

Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter)
Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter) Dork
4/26/23 6:51 p.m.

A lot of dudes on ADV Rider sure like their orange bikes. 

wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L)
wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/26/23 7:35 p.m.

V-Strom in whatever flavor you like. I also hear good stuff about the Versys (sp?)

docwyte
docwyte PowerDork
4/27/23 8:50 a.m.

I was very disappointed by the Africa Twin.  For a liter bike, it just doesn't make any power, suspension was soft and wallowy, it just wasn't fun to ride.

I'd shy away from a KTM 790/890, reliability on those wasn't great.  My 1190R was an *animal*, so much fun!  Wouldn't want to pick it up, but other than that, amazing.  My 990 was the most unreliable KTM I've ever owned and working on it was a huge PITA, so I also wouldn't recommend one of those.

However, do you really want a liter bike?  The difference between one of those and your F650 might as well be earth to mars.  Have you considered a Yamaha T700 or the new Aprilia Toureg?  I think those are in a real sweet spot for power, weight and performance.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
4/27/23 10:06 a.m.

Thanks for the suggestions, everybody. Here's my rationale for a liter bike: At about 450 lbs, my bike is far from lightweight and I'm spending a lot of time on highways. But I need to try a few different things and zero in on what I really want.

I think the next step is to spend a few days on different rental bikes to zero in on which compromises I want to make.

docwyte
docwyte PowerDork
4/27/23 10:21 a.m.

If you want something that's good on the highway and can do a gravel road, yet won't break the bank, a BMW 1150GS is great.  Just don't get in a situation where you need to pick it up, as it's a heifer.

donalson
donalson PowerDork
4/29/23 1:13 a.m.

In reply to wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) :

Versys 650 is a great bike but off road is limited with 17" wheels... I have seen some people who've modified them with 19" front wheels from vstroms... also seen some with some nice knobbys on the 17"... it would really depend on what sort off "off road" you do...

donalson
donalson PowerDork
4/29/23 1:19 a.m.

if I was pushing for something light weight that was capable of mild single track and such I'd have a serious look at the Tenere 700 or the KTM 790/890 adventures... the Tuareg 660 really peaks my interest as well


but all that is said from someone who rarely even gets out on grass... although my fleet wouldn't suggest that...

 

20 versys 650 (daily commuter)
'04 tiger 955i (runs and almost ready to hit the street)
bmw f650 ST (working on a scrambler conversion)
klr 250 (technically my sons)

lol... 

Gzwg
Gzwg New Reader
4/29/23 3:20 a.m.

With regard to a better Suspension, I'd take a look at:

- Tenere 700 (or the older 660)

- Tuareg 660

- Ducati Desert-X

- New Honda Transalp

 

Everything else looks to be less capable Off-Road. 

ddavidv
ddavidv UltimaDork
4/29/23 7:16 a.m.

As the weight goes up, the pleasure of gravel roads goes down. I know there will be the guys who say that is BS, that you just need to learn to ride the big bikes or take a Bret Takcs course. But for the average guy, bigger isn't better IMO.

I tried a V-Strom. Great on the highway, really 'meh' off-pavement. And, it was kind of boring for me, but that may just be an Asian bike thing as I generally don't gravitate to them. 

My answer was the Triumph Tiger 800. I loved, loved, loved the triple engine. The weight is much better than a lot of the competition. Triumph build quality is very high, and it was 90% or better on reliability...something pretty much no one will say about KTM. Also, no BMW tax or "dealer only" service BS. 

Everyone has their favorites, and I have my biases too. I'd just suggest you really put the Tiger line on your short list.

the_machina
the_machina Reader
5/2/23 5:04 p.m.

If you end up in Charlotte NC, you're welcome to borrow an R1200GS and a KTM 790ADV for a weekend, lmk.

Mine's the GS, and it's a beautiful road tripper and comfy as hell and I'd be happy with it as an "only bike". Handles great, enough power, isn't fazed by gravel. But she's heavy and big.

The KTM is my wife's, and it's playful and competent and rowdy and a better gravel bike than the GS, but the seat feels like a 2x6 board and it doesn't have quite as many creature comforts.

Both are great bikes. If I had to do it all over again, I might be tempted to get a midsize bike to have it be a bit more playful, but then we go spend six hours in the saddle and I still feel good and then I'm happy with my choice again.

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe PowerDork
5/2/23 6:49 p.m.

You can get a panamerica around 16K used with some good boxes and some farkles. A lot of power and very good road and offroad manners. 

octavious
octavious Dork
5/2/23 9:34 p.m.

I had a 1000 v-strom, fantastic, upright, interstate cruiser. Off road in the GA sand sucked balls. Now that we have plain old 200cc dirt bikes, the weight of that Vstrom off road scares me. 
 

I'm going to suggest the most expensive, but also the only one that makes my junk move, Ducati Multistrada. I love those. 

ShawnG
ShawnG MegaDork
5/3/23 1:29 a.m.

Moto Guzzi Stelvio has all the features of the big BMW but at almost half the price.

I could have bought my Stelvio AND a V7 for what they were asking for the GSA.

Oh, sorry. The windshield height adjustment is manual on the Stelvio.

wearymicrobe said:

You can get a panamerica around 16K used with some good boxes and some farkles. A lot of power and very good road and offroad manners. 

After reading what you wanted my first thought was HD Pan America. I haven't ridden one but even hardcore anti harley folks that have ridden it say its a fantastic ADV. It bears consideration for sure.

donalson
donalson PowerDork
5/3/23 3:37 p.m.
wearymicrobe said:

You can get a panamerica around 16K used with some good boxes and some farkles. A lot of power and very good road and offroad manners. 

wow there are a ton of Panamericas at that price range... its honestly the only HD I've ever liked... might have to look a little closer

Slippery
Slippery GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
5/3/23 3:44 p.m.
ShawnG said:

Moto Guzzi Stelvio has all the features of the big BMW but at almost half the price.

I could have bought my Stelvio AND a V7 for what they were asking for the GSA.

Oh, sorry. The windshield height adjustment is manual on the Stelvio.

Its also manual on the GSA, at least my 2015 had a knob you twisted to adjust the windshield ¯\ (ツ) /¯

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago GRM+ Memberand UberDork
5/3/23 5:32 p.m.
ShawnG said:

Oh, sorry. The windshield height adjustment is manual on the Stelvio.

ShawnG
ShawnG MegaDork
5/3/23 8:24 p.m.

In reply to Slippery :

The one the dealer showed me had an up/down button. 

I just Google it. Looks like an aftermarket farkle they added.

When I shopped bikes in 2014, the Beemer at the dealer, kitted out was $23,000 canadian. My Stelvio was $13,500 with factory Trax luggage. The only option was heated grips which I declined.

bmw88rider
bmw88rider GRM+ Memberand UberDork
5/4/23 10:49 a.m.

In reply to ddavidv :

I actually just rode the Tiger 800 XCX last weekend and really liked it. I'm looking for something too and the engine was a gem. I really liked the overall package. 

docwyte
docwyte PowerDork
5/4/23 1:54 p.m.

Choosing the right moto depends on several things;

will this be your only one, will you be riding solo, what sort of terrain will you be riding, how much gear do you need to carry etc. 

Even on a gravel road, picking up a full size adv bike sucks, especially if you're by yourself, you're tired and it's hot out. 

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/4/23 9:12 p.m.

I've owned a Tiger 800 for a while and ir's definitely worth looking at IMHO. My problem with Triumphs is usually that I can't get comfortable with their seats, which is ironic given that I just bought a T120. Either way, I think they're a good compromise size if you can get comfortable on them.

There's a reason that the BMW boxers are the gold standard for travel bikes, and not only because you have to bring a lot of loot to purchase them. IME they're still amongst the best compromise bikes for long distance travel that includes veering off paved roads. There early R1200GS are less of a heifer than the 1150GSs, but there's a reason that old pre-oil head BMWs were commonly called Gummikuh (rubber cow) in German...

In the same size, there's also the Tiger 1200 and I would also think that's worth a look.

gearheadE30
gearheadE30 Dork
5/8/23 1:06 p.m.

Getting rid of the buzz generally means twin cylinder. You said you're on the highway a lot, so that further reinforces moving that direction in my mind. The parallel twin BMWs are okay bikes, but they have some quality issues and while capable, really are not any more enthusiastic in their operation than your current bike. Group I ride with used to be mostly F800GSs, and there's not a single one left. ECM failues were the number one issue, followed by boring riding experience, poor suspension geometry for soft off road stuff, fuel system failures, and electrical issues. For a while, literally every trip we went on had a failed BMW issue.

the group now runs the gamut. Tenere 700, KTM 790 and 890, an africa twin, a new Desert X, a Triumph tiger 800, a 1200GS, a 1090R, and me on my 990. The 790s have had dust ingress issues, with two getting new warrantied engines. The others have generally been reliable. All except the KTMs seem to have very brittle plastics, constantly breaking things when dropped.

Most adventure bikes have soggy suspension stock. This is true to varying degrees for all of the above except the 790 and 890, and sort of the 1090R. Everyone except the 790 and 890 riders have done at least spring upgrades to remedy that, fortunately most bikes have reasonable bones to work from to get passable adventure and street performance, so I'm not sure I'd worry too  much about that. The KTMs really are a step up if you're going to get aggressive, a lot of the fork architecture is shared with the dirt bikes. 

Tenere 700 power is very soft, but it sounds good and feels willing enough. Africa twin has a little more off the bottom by virtue of displacement. Both are dramatically stronger than a single cylinder F650. All of the other bikes on that list have quite a bit more zip, which is nice on the highway. the Triumph triple sounds really good but you have to rev it to get to the juice. Fortunately it's happy enough doing that. The KTMs are the most agreesive feeling (ready to race! lol) and the BMWs are the most rubbery. At the end of the day, every single bike on that list has more power than most people use on an adventure bike off road if you let them rev.

I owned a 790 for a bit, it was a good bike once the intake was fixed and a few other key parts replaced. I sold it because the 990 is a better bike for what I do.

The big BMWs are an interesting riding experience with the telelever front end. I find them to be great pavement-focused bikes with the best weather protection of the bunch, but not confidence inspiring off the pavement with the rake changing all the time.

Weather protection from the others on the highway are all a step down from the big BMW, but roughly equal. My 990 is definitely the worst of the bunch in this regard. 990 gas mileage is also horrible.

The seating position on the Tenere 700 was also very awkwardly far back for riding in loose stuff seated. It's fine standing up though.

Generally, a lighter bike is always better. Tenere and 790/890 win there. My 990 is the lightest of our group, but it's got a lot of holes drilled in it.

 

So there's a whole bunch of opinions that may or may not help. I usually recommend the Tenere 700, or the 790/890 if a person is wanting more aggression and is okay working on stuff. They are light, capable, have "enough" power for most people, good parts and aftermarket availability, and enthusiastic supportive owner groups. While I've been around the Tuareg and Desert X, I don't know enough about them to recommend them yet.

And for me, the 990 is always going to be my favorite. I've had 4, put well over 100k miles on them, and it makes me giggle like a child every time I ride it.

Though I did just buy a 690 to build a rally replica out of. Time will tell where it fits into things, so far it's a good dual sport bike with an awkward transmission that prevents me from recommending it for highway use. The suspension keeps it from being a race bike, but because KTM, that's an easy enough issue to fix. It's plenty good for adventure bike use though.

 

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