25% import duty on imported cars and parts?

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :

Absolutely, since we have to live with the consequences I really hope to be proven wrong on many things right now.

I've stated this on here before, but I deal with tariffs everyday from all over the world.  We have practically none compared to most countries I deal with, some as high as 130%.  And being an OEM manufacturer, I also deal with purchasing goods from many other countries.  Again, buying from China is so cheap that it is difficult not to do so.  And yes, the tariffs on incoming items is practically nothing.  Even Canada which is supposed to be zero still manages to find a way to charge on a number of shipments.  Of all the countries we deal with Canada is probably the most difficult to get through customs.  They pour over everything with a fine tooth comb looking to add charges since they are losing money on Nafta.  Even Mexico plays by the book on Nafta, Canada does not.  So I have no love loss for them over any tariffs.

To answer someone above, yes, China can produce goods so much cheaper than anyone in the US as they do not have to follow many regulations, pay much in the way of tax, or pay their workers with a living wage comparable to the US.  We are at a distinct disadvantage to them and several other countries I could name.  As an example, one of the pieces we had been producing in house, we are now outsourcing because of cost.  Our cost with materials and labor was almost $78, just in cost mind you no profit, and we can purchase it complete from a company in China for just shy of $23, including shipping.  We're not a large company and work pretty lean, but there are no amount of cuts in the world to even that gap.

As to the potential tariffs looming, I am also uneasy about them, but I do understand the need to do something.  The US has had trade issues for years, many self induced, many not.  You have to start somewhere.  Now, do you have to use the tone and alienate people, that's another conversation entirely.

Just read about a farmer in Wisc, that was selling most of his milk in Canada.  Now with Canada's new tariffs,he can't sell his milk.

How is this helping ?

I really wish I could see a good, unbiased summary, of what tariffs have been (previous to all this).  Anyone seen something like this?

If it is as bad as some have said, it is pretty absurd that other countries are getting upset (or even retaliating) by the US doing to them, what they have been doing to us for a long time. 

For example, in regards to the milk comment above, I thought Canada already had a pretty good tariff on milk for a while now.  As with most things, having a full picture of the actual information would be VERY useful.  (since most media seems to live and breath on the emotion of situations)

A quick search (for Canada) showed their Tariff web page.

http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-commerce/tariff-tarifaire/index.aspx?lang=eng#U

the section for the US links to a US site, and it's not exactly a short list:

https://www.usitc.gov/tata/hts/bychapter/index.htm

but I cant even tell if these are tariff going INTO Canada, or going OUT.  (LOTS of legal text).

racerdave600 said:

 Even Mexico plays by the book on Nafta, Canada does not.  So I have no love loss for them over any tariffs.

It's not like the US doesn't also play their little games too. It goes both ways.

But it's not that simple either, and milk is a good example. We have quotas (they call supply management) that keep prices artificially high. The US has subsidies which keeps prices artificially low. How do you deal with dairy when  the two countries are at extremes like that? It's not simple.

I'm a big fan of our supply side milk management going away, but we in Canada are absolute pikers when it comes to farm subsidies. $16 billion US$ in 2016, iirc.

Free trade.  Hah.

Streetwiseguy said:

I'm a big fan of our supply side milk management going away, but we in Canada are absolute pikers when it comes to farm subsidies. $16 billion US$ in 2016, iirc.

Free trade.  Hah.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that the US does not have huge farm subsidies.  Some are very hidden, but very there.

Everybody does it.  The hard part is like what aircooled posted- where did it start, and where are we now?  Then figuring out where we should be going.

I'm pretty sure that's what he was saying and that Canada's farm subsidies pale in comparison to that of the US.

The US wants access to our dairy market and disputes our supply management system as not being in agreement with NAFTA (and has lost) but at the same time 3/4 of the US dairy industries income comes from government subsidies.

It's almost amusing how many folks in the US will gauge the economy by the price of milk and how a few cents rise will make it seem like the sky is falling.

Cheap milk = "good times".  

Ian F said:

It's almost amusing how many folks in the US will gauge the economy by the price of milk and how a few cents rise will make it seem like the sky is falling.

Cheap milk = "good times".  

If it's an early indicator of the overall economy's reaction to the tariffs, it may not be a bad conclusion.  We don't know that yet, so one can't make fun of the reaction any more than one can think that the sky is falling.

ultraclyde said:

kilgoretrout said:

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Pretty much every part of me says that this is a horrible idea. There will be unintended consequences that will happen immediately and some that will stretch-on for years. In addition to making enemies out of our long-term partners. 

But, but, but...there is a strange voice that makes me question everything I know to be true. It tells me that something this outrageous will end-up helping us long-term through better trade deals. A lot of pain will happen first, but it could actually work. Kind of like letting a monkey type on your computer - who knows, maybe he can churn out an award winning novel?

Back to being rational. I have to give it to them, it does take some stones to do what they're doing. However, I'm more comfortable with a traditional negotiation, and not transactional, to get what we want. For instance, the end goal would be to get rid of tariffs altogether or at least get them lowered. Pick the things that are important and focus on those. I don't think you need to bet the farm to make that happen. 

I'm kind of with you on this, mainly because I know diddly squat about macro economics (of course, I agree with RX Reven that even the experts may not.)  I think it's going to be bad, like really bad, but since I also don't know that much I'm open to being wrong. But I certainly wouldn't have chosen this path.

I disagree about it taking stones to try it. Most of the people making this decision are massively wealthy enough that it won't really affect them. I feel like they're making risky decisions with all of our futures but don't have any skin in the game. I would also suspect anyone wealthy enough to be a top policy-producer is diversely invested both at home and over seas, so it's a net zero on these kind of situations. 

I see your point but I was referencing the "stones" thing because it could backfire immediately (Harley moving production for ex) and impact their base directly. If those people see the connection (they probably won't), they might be less sympathetic come voting time. However, I'm fully aware that their base is fiercely loyal so it might not matter at all. Any long-term issues will be blamed on somebody else.