Aggressive/Suicidal Bicyclists

Man I hate cyclists, mostly because I live on some sort of preferred training route and deal with them all the time. Generally speaking, they ride like they have a chip on their shoulder and no care over how much chaos they are causing or how slow they are forcing everyone to go.

That said, I was stuck behind a group climbing a steep hill yesterday. Near the top was a red light that they could have easily ducked through (no traffic the other way) but they all stopped and obeyed the rules of the road. Usually, they want to be treated like a car but not follow the same rules, so that impressed me. They also understood that cars would have to pass, and rode single file and even used hand signals to indicate that they were moving left to go around a dead deer. I wish everyone in spandex rode the same way.

I just keep waiting for a Critical Mass rally on my way to work some day. I hope no cyclist acts out against me or makes me feel threated and needing to defend my life, because I have practiced my "Shift to 4-Hi and Pin It" move a few times, and am getting pretty good. Keep the wheel speed up, and it should be no issue to move through the pack and onward to safety.

slantvaliant wrote:

Ian F wrote:

slantvaliant wrote:

Marty! wrote: I think it's just the silly clothes that cyclists wear that make people hate them. I mean no grown man should ever be caught in Spandex - that is unless they wrestle in the WWE or are Axl Rose.

I think the phrase "grown man" exempts your exceptions.

...and it's comments like this that make you all look like a bunch of ignorant E36 M3s.

So, I'm an ignorant E36 M3 because I think a lot of wrestlers and rockers are a bit immature? Read, think, and lighten up, Francis.

No. Because it's still an assinine statement in a vain effort to be cute/funny. Glam metal notwithstanding, sports clothing is designed the way it is for a reason. Form following function. I don't wear spandex when I ride because I want to. I wear it because I've tried riding without it and it SUCKS.

If there was ever a thread subject that I wish was deleted the moment it was posted, it should be this one. I understand the OP's original rant - hell, even as a cyclist, I agree with him, but after that it's been nothing but b.s. bickering and flared tempers. It's like two religious groups arguing which is better. Neither side will ever understand the other one.

In reply to Ian F:

IDK, Ian, seems like there has been a large number of posters who attend both churches and recognize the failures of both.

As a generalization, I'd say there is a small number azzhats from both sides that make bad impressions. The problem is that azzhats on bikes can/will lose a whole lot more than cagers when stupid things happen.

I think it all stems from impatience and intolerance, neither one of which is going anywhere anytime soon. Combine it with insecurity and indignation and it's only going to get worse.

There's just as many shiny happy people wearing spandex as there are holding steering wheels. Let us all make an effort to forget the grudges of our last encounter with each other and not let it effect our judgement upon our next.
Peace out y0!

But has it accomplished anything? Will anything that's been posted here make pinchvalve retract:

Man I hate cyclists, mostly because I live on some sort of preferred training route and deal with them all the time.

Not from what I've seen.

I figure it's only a matter of time before I meet my end on the bumper of some SUV and angry truck. I accept that. I'm not going to give up one of my few reasons for living just because it might kill me.

I've been riding motorcycles for over 20 years. I thought a lot of motorcyclists had a bad attitude towards cars (I'm not one of them), but it looks like bicyclists win that by a big margin.

I get merged over on, ran off the road, and pulled out in front of all the time. Most of the time people just don't see you and it isn't intentional. I don't even get mad about it anymore. I wasn't even mad at the Taurus driver I hit...she pulled right out in front of me and got me a trip to the hospital.

re: the spandex wars. I rode 40 miles on the C&O canal a couple of weeks ago, sans spandex. just a cotton tee, and cotton cargo shorts in 90 deg weather, no discomfort whatsoever.

I've been a serious road cyclist for better than 30 years. I raced on the road and the track, worked in the industry, and for a stretch as a messenger when it was a job - not a "lifestyle". I also road raced motorcycles and worked in that business, and am a committed student of driving and vehicle dynamics. Driving, riding and cycling are probably the 3 things from which I derive the greatest satisfaction.

That said, and from a cyclists perspective, an old guy who can actually ride in a straight line:

• Please, please learn to ride in a straight line. It's faster, safer and more efficient. If you can't ride in the width of the white stripe on the edge of the pavement, practice.
• During a large group ride there should never be more than 2 lines: the side of the pace line that's pulling, and the riders soft pedaling back to the rear to get back on.
• A cyclist needs to do whatever is necessary to protect themselves as best as possible. If for example I'm riding at the right edge of a 2 lane and it adds a right turn lane to my right - I'll stick an arm out to try to prevent the guy in the Lexus SUV on his Blackberry from pulling abreast of me and swerving right. That's about the only situation I ever encounter where I try to make myself bigger.
• Honestly, in traffic, cars hold me up very frequently - I ~NEVER~ hold cars up intentionally.
• I can ride, as stated above, on the 5" wide white stripe at the edge of the lane in a perfectly straight line for miles. If I'm on that line going a perfectly predictable 21 mph and the speed limit is 25 - PLEASE PASS ME!!! - there's no need to swerve across the double yellow into the oncoming lane. I'd prefer you give me a foot which can be done by a truck and stay in the lane. But please pass me.
• I run lights. I stop, look everywhere then go. I occasionally blow a stop sign on the middle of a big hill. I said I'm a full sized cyclist already. That's why. So sue me.
• If you scream at me for no reason or throw stuff at me - there's a very good chance that I can sprint at 35 mph and catch your ass.
• whether you're on a bicycle or a motorcycle - when a car makes an idiotic mistake and tries to kill you and you manage to avoid it - if, at the next stoplight you quietly and reasonably bring it to the attention of the offending driver - they inevitably go completely apesh1t. I guess this is some fight or flee thing we're hardwired with.
• Just once I'd like to say "Hey, back there? I think you were busy texting when I had to swerve/jump a curb/do a huge stoppie to avoid getting flattened by you - please be more careful" and not be greeted with an instantaneous "WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM???!!!YOU berkeleying berkeleyER I SHOULD KILL YOU WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM???!!!"
• Those critical mass idiots could all drop dead and the world would be a better place. The last thing I want is shiny happy people on bicycles pissing the world off on purpose so they take it out on me.
• About the same percentage of cyclists and drivers seem completely inept - high 90s.

It's kinda funny how far off this thread went, almost instantly.

I well understand not threading the needle or crowding bicycles. I don't. Been known to torque off some cars by not passing a bicycle in a tight situation, like when a car is coming the other way. To the guy behind me honking his horn, sorry but I ain't passing until it's safe.

I well understand bicycles wobble. True, they hardly ever fall down, but they sure look like they will. I don't ever expect a bicycle to stay tight on the stripe. Sure, it's nice if they can, but most can't. I know I can't.

I well understand bicycles are slow. Especially going up hills. Spandex or not, bicycles are not fast.

I well understand family rides are wide. Especially with little kids. They love to pass mommy and daddy. And god do they wobble. I will cross a double yellow line to get way far away from families out on rides. And I stay way back, so the kiddies don't turn around to look.

What I am not so understanding of is a bicycle rider deliberately trying to cause a crash. Like the one the other day, he kept looking over his shoulder at me, watching me aproach. Once I got within a few feet of him, he very deliberately turned across my path specifically to force me to swerve hard and brake hard to avoid hitting him.

Like I said, I see this sort of deliberately dangerous riding quite routinely these days. That's why I could read yesterdays rider and knew what he was going to do. I was quite well prepared for him.

I happen to live on a favored road racing road. The local teams practice here. Innumerous times I can see them turning their heads to watch me, or some other car aproach. The rear rider will call out, and they will fan across the road, forcing the cars (or motorcycles, or even a farm tractor) to violently brake and swerve to avoid hitting them. When the vehicle passes, they will return to single file riding along the shoulder.

This is no accident or fluke, it's well orchestrated and quite deliberate on the part of the spandex wearing bicycle riders. I do not see it with the blue jean wearing casual riders or commuters.

PHeller wrote: Spandex wearing, hardcore road cyclists loves the long, abandoned country road. The same road has no berm. Same cyclists gets insults from lifted truck hicks. This is what gets me. I ride road bike on empty roads out in the middle of no-where and I still face the insults of drivers. Inexcusable.

I haven't even made it all the way through this thread and I had to reply. This is an issue I have seen on other boards lead to people leaving for good. As far as the lifted trucks go, its a cultural thing. Would you really expect to be treated with respect and tolerance by rednecks with lifted trucks?

I just got back from a weekend trip to a place with long, windy, shoulderless, tree lined country roads. As I left in one direction one morning down a road I knew I would be driving later, I noticed a decent sized group of cyclists. maybe 6, emerging from the road toward the T intersection, of course with all the required cyclist gear involved.

The first thing that went through my mind was, I hope they aren't around when I drive this road later coming the other way. Then I thought they were going to get killed or lead to someone else being killed while they work on their cycling techniques.

These roads are dangerous enough with just cars. People crash regularly in this area. In fact, at the end of my trip, on the way out of the area, I saw a nice Audi S4 chomped in half by a semi-looks like the Audi pulled into traffic too late and was hit and spun around with a lot of damage.

You have cyclists who are obviously from out of town (as no one in the area is going to dress like that) who come to the area for recreation. Nothing wrong with that, but locals don't like that. That will never change, unless your in some kind of rural Vermont or Connecticut place where rural = urbane, sophisticated and educated chilling for the weekend. It don't mean that where I'm from. Its like showing up to go fishing in the country with all kinds of silly looking "fishing gear" on. Secondly, Its dangerous and they don't know the terrain like the locals do. What amazes me is how careless the cyclists appear to be sometimes. Its like, I'm going to ride here-you worry about it.

I used to cycle when I lived in Chicago. I was straight up hit twice by inattentive drivers, and I hit a quickly openned driver side door once, which actually caused me the most physical pain of all three. It kind of went with the territory. I was pretty skilled at the time and had a great fitness level. I would never have ridden where I see some cyclists ride.

At least in Erie, Critical Mass is just like 30 riders who go out and ride around town. They don't hold up traffic, they don't try to piss people off.

I do know that in other cities, with larger participation that CM riders will impede the flow of traffic.

Usually when they do, they don't do it for longer than a few blocks...less than your common traffic jam.

By comparison...motorcyclists can impede traffic as well when in high numbers...and well...so can cars and pedestrians.

The rear rider will call out, and they will fan across the road, forcing the cars (or motorcycles, or even a farm tractor) to violently brake and swerve to avoid hitting them. When the vehicle passes, they will return to single file riding along the shoulder.

Frankly, what I would do in that situation is slow down, pass cleanly and safely, and then stay 2 carlengths in front of them at slightly slower than they want to go.

FT, have you considered that perhaps the spandex clad shiny happy person was actually trying to get you to hit him for a lawsuit? I can think of no other reason that someone like that would deliberately try to get run over. Maybe his friends were just back somewhere as convenient "witnesses" to their friend getting run over.

Dr. Hess wrote: FT, have you considered that perhaps the spandex clad shiny happy person was actually trying to get you to hit him for a lawsuit? I can think of no other reason that someone like that would deliberately try to get run over. Maybe his friends were just back somewhere as convenient "witnesses" to their friend getting run over.

Oh yes, the thought has definately occurred to me.

mattmacklind wrote:

PHeller wrote: Spandex wearing, hardcore road cyclists loves the long, abandoned country road. The same road has no berm. Same cyclists gets insults from lifted truck hicks. This is what gets me. I ride road bike on empty roads out in the middle of no-where and I still face the insults of drivers. Inexcusable.

I haven't even made it all the way through this thread and I had to reply. This is an issue I have seen on other boards lead to people leaving for good. As far as the lifted trucks go, its a cultural thing. Would you really expect to be treated with respect and tolerance by rednecks with lifted trucks?

I have a lifted truck. I also have a few Porsches, BMW and Japanese motorcycles, muscle cars, a vintage vw, and a bunch of other different types of vehicles. I will treat you the same way regardless of what the berkeley I'm driving.....so this is one dude in a lifted truck etc that will treat you with respect if I get it from you.

I had to look up berm. It means shoulder. I've never heard anyone call it that.

foxtrapper wrote: What I am not so understanding of is a bicycle rider deliberately trying to cause a crash. Like the one the other day, he kept looking over his shoulder at me, watching me aproach. Once I got within a few feet of him, he very deliberately turned across my path specifically to force me to swerve hard and brake hard to avoid hitting him. Like I said, I see this sort of deliberately dangerous riding quite routinely these days. That's why I could read yesterdays rider and knew what he was going to do. I was quite well prepared for him. I happen to live on a favored road racing road. The local teams practice here. Innumerous times I can see them turning their heads to watch me, or some other car aproach. The rear rider will call out, and they will fan across the road, forcing the cars (or motorcycles, or even a farm tractor) to violently brake and swerve to avoid hitting them. When the vehicle passes, they will return to single file riding along the shoulder.

Hmm... I can't explain this either... but I'll ask around and maybe get some reasoning behind it, although I can't think of any reasonable excuse for this sort of action.

In reply to Ian F:

Ian, READ before going off on someone. I said zip,zero, nada about spandex. I have no feeling either way on that subject. You assumed, and you failed. Tsk tsk tsk.

Again, read, think, and lighten up.

foxtrapper wrote: I happen to live on a favored road racing road. The local teams practice here. Innumerous times I can see them turning their heads to watch me, or some other car aproach. The rear rider will call out, and they will fan across the road, forcing the cars (or motorcycles, or even a farm tractor) to violently brake and swerve to avoid hitting them. When the vehicle passes, they will return to single file riding along the shoulder. This is no accident or fluke, it's well orchestrated and quite deliberate on the part of the spandex wearing bicycle riders. I do not see it with the blue jean wearing casual riders or commuters.

This is crazy sounding to me too. I ride with my local cycling club and there are usually 15-20 riders out on group rides. I've never been part of a group that performed this way! It's insane, intentionally provocative behavior. No clue as to why they'd do that.

motomoron wrote: - I run lights. I stop, look everywhere then go. I occasionally blow a stop sign on the middle of a big hill. I said I'm a full sized cyclist already. That's why. So sue me.

This is why they hate us.

Wasn't there some bicycle movement out west a few years ago that was doing this sort of stuff? Where they were stupidly and violently asserting their rights and such by cutting cars off, blocking lanes and such. I don't remember what this movement of group was called. I want to say it was in San Francisco, but I'm not sure of that.

I've figured these shiny happy riders were following the same sort of thinking. Asserting their rights to the lane and "teaching car drivers a lesson" and such.

As a long time rider I have to agree with motomoron almost 100%. There is actually a state-level legal precedent for allowing cyclists to rolling stop under the assumption that as a slow moving vehicle they have better vision to assess traffic. Also, in most cases if they do blow a stop sign and get hit, they are the ones that get hurt. I think it's in Idaho or Iowa, somewhere off beat.

ON the other hand, deliberately blocking or pissing off traffic is stupid, and my response when I've seen it is a verbal attack on my fellow rider calling them out in front of everyone. I REFUSE to ride with those chowder heads.

foxtrapper wrote: Wasn't there some bicycle movement out west a few years ago that was doing this sort of stuff?

It's called Critical Mass. They have groups all over the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass

I am all for sharing the road but the laws are not fair. In FL, a bicycle can pass you on the right while you have your right turn signal on, and hit your car when you turn right. Then the driver of the car is at fault. How does that make any sense? BTW-this person was collecting lawsuits and has succeeded at least twice.