slefain
UberDork
12/28/15 2:10 p.m.
Time to start getting serious about moving our living room to the basement. I've settled on using beadboard to cover the concrete block walls since half the area will be playroom and my kids play hard. I've gone over several options for flooring and I think this may be a good option. The concrete is unsealed and unprepped, just smoothed. No water leaks, but there is slight moisture under the existing foam flooring (Harbor Freight anti-fatigue mats, a bazillion squares of it). Carpet is not an option due to our kids' allergies (our whole house is hardwood).
This stuff looks pretty tempting, kind of like RaceDeck for the house. It has an air gap underneath and it floats, so there should be some air movement to keep moisture at bay. Installation appears to be DIY, which my wallet appreciates. Just clean the floor and start laying tiles. Am I missing something here? I'm waiting for a response here before I pester SVReX directly.
The part I like is the air gap which is hopefully what will save me on prepping & sealing the concrete floor.
Looks pretty good to me. What's the cost?
The only problem I see is what does the "grout-line" look like and how much dust and dirt will collect there? Because if there is a seam, there will be a build up of dirt in it, no way around that.
You may find that VCT is so cheap and easy to do that it's a better choice. Likely the dampness you're feeling is just the cool nature of a basement floor and gluing the VCT down cures it.
Ian F
MegaDork
12/28/15 2:50 p.m.
Looks nice, but at $5 per square foot... Ouch.
http://www.modutile.com/basement-flooring.html
We use some similar systems on occasion. I have nothing to say either way about it, we don't get call backs, but we usually don't on VCT, ceramic or tile either.
My bigger concern would be the moisture underneath. I dehumidifier might go a long way especially with air gaps. Dark, plus damp, plus heat equals nasty. We ran one in our MN basement as a kid and it was great.
Hal
SuperDork
12/28/15 3:29 p.m.
Before you do anything:
Clear an area of the floor down to the concrete
Duct tape a sheet of plastic wrap to the floor
Let it be for a couple days
If you see any moisture under the plastic I would seriously consider sealing the concrete in some way. Moisture under glue down flooring will result in it coming loose. Moisture under floating flooring will result in mold and mildew.
In both cases when we wanted to put vinyl on the basement floor and wood on the porch turned family room floor, the companies that were going to do the job insisted we do a moisture test first.
wbjones
MegaDork
12/28/15 4:08 p.m.
this ... wonder how often you could put these down and take them up .... seems like they'd be great for paddock area at some race tracks, where the paddock is sand/dirt/gravel
http://www.walmart.com/ip/47635032?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227034941063&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=75436065274&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=175415353234&veh=sem
This product:
http://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/panel-products/underlayment-panels/plastic-underlayment-panels-kits-parts/platon-8-x-65-6-foundation-or-flooring-protector-underlayment/p-1444426335772-c-5710.htm?tid=3943053525261304351
Plus plywood and linoleum or laminate will give you the same effect for under half the price.
wbjones
MegaDork
12/28/15 9:24 p.m.
easily taken up, loaded on the PU and taken to the track ?
slefain
UberDork
12/29/15 8:09 a.m.
oldopelguy wrote:
This product:
http://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/panel-products/underlayment-panels/plastic-underlayment-panels-kits-parts/platon-8-x-65-6-foundation-or-flooring-protector-underlayment/p-1444426335772-c-5710.htm?tid=3943053525261304351
Plus plywood and linoleum or laminate will give you the same effect for under half the price.
Now that is a product I have never seen before. I'm in the south, so this is our local version: http://www.homedepot.com/p/DMX-1-STEP-100-sq-ft-44-in-x-27-ft-6-in-Unique-Air-Gap-Underlayment-Prevents-Mold-and-Mildew-DMX-1-Step/204494289?cm_mmc=Shopping|THD|G|0|G-BASE-PLA-D23-Hardwood|&gclid=CO_16NqcgcoCFdcWgQodsH0PNQ&gclsrc=aw.ds
I'm trying to avoid using wood on the floor though, so I need an alternative to plywood (or really thick snap-together flooring).
oldopelguy wrote:
This product:
http://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/panel-products/underlayment-panels/plastic-underlayment-panels-kits-parts/platon-8-x-65-6-foundation-or-flooring-protector-underlayment/p-1444426335772-c-5710.htm?tid=3943053525261304351
Plus plywood and linoleum or laminate will give you the same effect for under half the price.
This is what we put in our basement. It's worked very well so far. Much cheaper than $5/sf. We put the Platon down, then tapconned some OSB subfloor over that, then some QuietWalk, then laminate click-lock flooring. It's quiet, warm, comfortable space. You lose about 1" or so of ceiling height, so you'll have to trim down any existing doors.
Be careful what you do at the outside walls, if you get any moisture in there and you put paneling over them you'll end up with mold and mildew. Even if you don't have water running in, I would paint it with Drylock first and then put up furring strips to attach the paneling so there's some air gap there.
@wbjones: I think he was responding to the OP not to your post.
@glefain: Why are you trying to avoid wood? In case water gets in?
slefain
UberDork
12/29/15 8:47 a.m.
dculberson wrote:
@glefain: Why are you trying to avoid wood? In case water gets in?
Yup. Water heaters bust, kids leave sinks running (both upstairs and down), and in general water just happens. Having a layer of wood between two layers of not-wood seems like a bad idea if (when) water does get in there.
It is basically boiling down to the fact that I will have to finish the basement sometime next year. SVReX already helped me figure out how to live in our current house without making a monster addition, but that plan means moving the living room into the basement. I'd love to just slam down a 4mm foam underlayment/moisture barrier and go to town with a bunch of knockoff Pergo, but that seems like a bad idea.
SVreX
MegaDork
12/29/15 8:58 a.m.
So, you want to avoid sealing the floor, and just accommodate the water?
See Hal's post above.
That product brags on a "high roll over resistance" ability. I would be less concerned with roll over than with impact resistance and puncture resistance. You are creating spaces underneath with (perhaps?) 1" gaps, then spanning those spaces with vinyl. Not too good.
The reality is that the actual weight per square inch of a high heeled shoe is much more than the weigh per square inch of an elephant.
I can't find any pictures of the back of that product, nor any specifications. I'd like to see if it actually allows air CIRCULATION, instead of just an air GAP. I'd also like to see the thickness of the vinyl material, and the impact resistance rating. Looks kind of faddish, and very expensive.
But the answer to your question is no, I haven't used it.
slefain
UberDork
12/29/15 9:52 a.m.
Hal wrote:
Before you do anything:
Clear an area of the floor down to the concrete
Duct tape a sheet of plastic wrap to the floor
Let it be for a couple days
If you see any moisture under the plastic I would seriously consider sealing the concrete in some way. Moisture under glue down flooring will result in it coming loose. Moisture under floating flooring will result in mold and mildew.
In both cases when we wanted to put vinyl on the basement floor and wood on the porch turned family room floor, the companies that were going to do the job insisted we do a moisture test first.
Moisture test in progress, hopefully the kids and cats will leave them alone. It will be good to know if the moisture I see underneath the foam tiles is coming from the concrete or the air. We just had torrential rains with crazy flooding around us, so the soil is as wet as it can be. No water to be seen anywhere in the basement though, so that is good.
I have no experience with your product, but I was seriously considering installing DriCore (or is it DryCore?) under my basement floor. A coworker put it down in his and he was quite happy with it. It's basically a layer of plywood over plastic support. Cover it with your choice of flooring.
Dricore is the modular version of what we did in our basement. The Platon + OSB is chepaer than the Dricore, and goes on in larger sections.
@slefain: Honestly I think you're worrying too much about water getting the wood wet. Only you can tell your situation, but if your basement is reliably dry I wouldn't worry about damaging a wood product as long as it's up off the floor a bit. Eg, A burst water heater would only damage it if it was located up on the finished floor or if you have no floor drains or sump pumps.
In our situation we have excellent drainage (house built into a hill) so any incoming water has little risk of rising above the level of the Platon. But again, a floor drain or (non-sealed) sump pump would serve the same purpose. You won't have the water level rise high enough to overwhelm the platon and soak the OSB.
A huge water leak right onto it might cause major damage requiring replacement of the wood. But that's true on the 1st and second floors, too. No sense spending $5/sf to prevent a (hopefully slim) possibility. All in my opinion of course but I voted with my wallet and am pleased so far, a year later.
Also make sure you check your insurance policy. My insurance agent clued me in that a slight bump in rate got me coverage for the finished living space in the basement. I think it was around $100/year or less. Without the rider they would have only covered rough finishes in the basement.
92dxman
SuperDork
12/29/15 2:09 p.m.
Dricore is a solid pricey product but is worth its weight in gold.
Ian F
MegaDork
12/29/15 3:16 p.m.
In reply to dculberson:
Never heard of Platon, but that is definitely a less expensive option than Dricore panels.
http://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/panel-products/underlayment-panels/plastic-underlayment/platon-44-1-2-x-50-flooring-protector-underlayment/building-materials/panel-products/underlayment-panels/plastic-underlayment-panels-kits-parts/platon-44-1-2-x-50-flooring-protector-underlayment/p-1444426334403.htm;jsessionid=E177273E7FA73E229EA93637564372B0.eklka-prodapp4-external-mcom
slefain
UberDork
12/30/15 11:05 a.m.
Just checked my concrete moisture tests. Even with the Seattle-esque rain we've had for the last few days the areas under the plastic were perfectly dry, not even clammy. Looks like I'm worrying about a problem that doesn't exist. This will make things MUCH simpler (and cheaper).
Ian F wrote:
In reply to dculberson:
Never heard of Platon, but that is definitely a less expensive option than Dricore panels.
http://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/panel-products/underlayment-panels/plastic-underlayment/platon-44-1-2-x-50-flooring-protector-underlayment/building-materials/panel-products/underlayment-panels/plastic-underlayment-panels-kits-parts/platon-44-1-2-x-50-flooring-protector-underlayment/p-1444426334403.htm;jsessionid=E177273E7FA73E229EA93637564372B0.eklka-prodapp4-external-mcom
I have some basement moisture issues, so this is relevant to my interests.
I'm pretty dumb about house construction, so what I don't understand about the cutaway image shown is: How is the plywood layer held down? If it's just laying there, it seems like the edges would never be even with one another. And it seems wrong somehow, that it would be anchored to the concrete floor, with some fastener going through the Platon stuff.
Ian F
MegaDork
12/30/15 12:17 p.m.
In reply to JamesMcD:
Usually, no - the plywood is attached to itself (each panel; probably with glue rather than an mechanical fasteners; T&G panels are typically used), but not to the concrete - so it "floats" over the barrier. You don't want the plywood to go all the way to the walls so that air can circulate a bit under the Platon. At least that's the idea. The weight and general friction of the panels over the entire floor will keep it from shifting.
We fastened the plywood using tapcons through the plywood and Platon. The Platon doesn't make a moisture resistant barrier - it just holds the plywood up off the concrete 1/2" or so. It doesn't matter if you make holes through it as long as you don't crush it.
And yes leave some gaps - which you can cover with baseboard - so air can flow some and dry out any moisture.