you want to have 6 medium to large mammals sleeping in the same vehicle? the only thing that comes close is a 15 passenger van with the seats taken out or a gas (either 5.4 or v10) excursion, but traveling with it will likely be cost prohibitive.
you want to have 6 medium to large mammals sleeping in the same vehicle? the only thing that comes close is a 15 passenger van with the seats taken out or a gas (either 5.4 or v10) excursion, but traveling with it will likely be cost prohibitive.
FYI, I have a 96 chevy full size conversion van. I love it. Not sure that it would be enough for your sleeping requirement. On the average weekend we camp in it: My wife and 3 year old son use the rear fold down seat as a bed. At 5'8" I'm too big for the bed unless I'm solo and sleeping diagonal on it. We leave one of the middle captains chairs at home, and I sleep on the floor in the space vacated by the captains chair. My feet still spill over into the gap between the two front seats. I think, two adults, and two children would be tight, not to mention adding two dogs. However, there is enough space that you can easily add a 10x10 screened canopy or tent, to add a "guest room". Giving the kids and any of their friends that want to come along, a place to sleep. I think a class b would actually give you less room. You may be able to find a Class C motorhome, with enough seat belts and room to work. $5k should be enough to work with, especially if you wait to buy this fall.
Joe Gearin wrote: You can find the Class-B RVs super cheap,
Where are you finding them? When I see used Class B's (glorified conversion van) for sale, the asking prices are insane. They generally aren't that popular so clean ones hold their value. It's like trying to find a clean, usable slide-in camper - anything under a Challenge price is damn near junk. Class C's (van front, box back) tend to be cheap since there are so many. Old Class A's (bus-like) tend to be very cheap since those who afford the single-digit MPG can usually afford a nicer, newer unit with modern fancy features.
The Toyota is amusing... My '86 4x4 with a 22R could barely get out of its own way when empty. I can't imagine what it would be like with all that extra weight. The V6 version might be a little better, but not much.
The need to sleep 4+ is going to make any compact budget option tough. I can't think of anything other than a Westy that will meet your wants.
I don't think the westie meets the needs either. You'll definitely need some sort of accessory for added living space. Either a tent/canopy, or the trailer mentioned being a teardrop camper type of deal. Might be worth it to just rent a mini van and have everyone sleep in it for the weekend to see if you can live with something that size.
I'll sell you my 1990 Mitsubishi delica wagonvan for a whole lot less. Maybe you can figure out what the mystery noise is?
You can definitely sleep four in a Westfalia. They're designed for that. Based on the forums, I'd say the typical owner has kids and dogs. With the upper bunk, they're quite a bit different than trying to pack everyone into the floor of a minivan. Two upstairs, two downstairs, dogs can sleep on the floor or outside. Yes, it's compact but it's doable. Some people add roll-out canopies out the side for extra living space, although you've got the entire world out there when the door is open.
You can always count on the GRM forum to try to find the most difficult solution to a vehicular question 
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/1991-isuzu-trooper/ 
Keith wrote: You can definitely sleep four in a Westfalia. They're designed for that. Based on the forums, I'd say the typical owner has kids and dogs. With the upper bunk, they're quite a bit different than trying to pack everyone into the floor of a minivan. Two upstairs, two downstairs, dogs can sleep on the floor or outside. Yes, it's compact but it's doable. Some people add roll-out canopies out the side for extra living space, although you've got the entire world out there when the door is open.
Doable and enjoyable are not always the same thing.
How big are the kids and how big are the dogs.
I'm a major VW Westy nut.
Even so, I don't think it is the right car for you.
First off, your budget is too low to get a nice one (they are frequently overpriced).
Secondly, AWD ones are REALLY overpriced, and pretty rare. If you want one, again, your budget is much too low.
Third, you mentioned towing. There is no comparison between an Astro and a Westy for towing. Astro does it well, Westy not so much.
Fourth, to find one in your price range, you will have to buy one much older than a similarly priced Astro or Previa. It will be an entire generation earlier, and will lack all of the related generational improvements.
Fifth, a VW with a Subie motor is a maintenance challenge (even though I love both). Are you fluent in both brands, or will you have to take it to a mechanic?
And lastly, I love 'em, but I wouldn't want one for my daily driver. They don't rate as well for safety, and ergonomics are a little weak for regular driving.
If serious off-roading is your goal, they will destroy all the others for ground clearance, but that's about it. Well, they also have a higher cool factor, and a widely available pop top and built in cabinetry.
For safety, it's the Previa. I'd also give them the thumbs up for the AWD drivetrain.
For towing, definitely the Astro.
If you can handle the mechanics for the Westy swap, I've got a couple of 3.3L Subie motors around! 
sachilles wrote:Keith wrote: You can definitely sleep four in a Westfalia. They're designed for that. Based on the forums, I'd say the typical owner has kids and dogs. With the upper bunk, they're quite a bit different than trying to pack everyone into the floor of a minivan. Two upstairs, two downstairs, dogs can sleep on the floor or outside. Yes, it's compact but it's doable. Some people add roll-out canopies out the side for extra living space, although you've got the entire world out there when the door is open.Doable and enjoyable are not always the same thing. How big are the kids and how big are the dogs.
More comfortable than a tent, easier to deal with than a massive RV. It's one of those middle ground things. The size just works.
If you're camping with them, I'm assuming small(ish) children. Dogs, well, if you want to camp with a couple of rowdy 2-year-old Labs, there's no vehicle in the world that's big enough this side of an aircraft carrier.
As for the budget, I found a nice Subaru-swapped Westy right in the middle of the stated price range by doing nothing more complex than looking on Craigslist. I've since seen some that were quite a bit more expensive and some that were less, although the Subaru ones tend to be more.
A coworker did a swap on a $500 Westy for a friend. They got a fantastic deal on the bus, but after all that work they had right about $7k in it - without doing anything other than installing the drivetrain. For the same price, mine is a nicer vehicle and I didn't have to spend the time doing the swap!
I'm not a Subaru or a VW guy, so the fact that I need a different manual for the engine isn't a big deal. Maintenance is no worse than a Subaru for the engine and a Westy for the body.
I'd go with the Astro. I have no real world experience but after hanging around here enough, now I want one.
Anti-stance wrote: I'd go with the Astro. I have no real world experience but after hanging around here enough, now I want one.
I do have real-world experience with one... The comic store I worked for had one as a shop truck and I had to drive it once in awhile... Maybe that's why I don't love them so much...
Besides, there's no way, no how you're going to sleep 4 people in an Astro. Hell, even two will be tight. I'm not sure anything other than a purpose-built RV like a Westy will fill that bill.
If you like the Westy but are worried about the Subaru motor, you could always go the Zetec route.
no affiliation 1988 pace arrow
Regarding price, I was focused on the thread title.
A decent Westy can be had for under $10K. Not for under $5K.
Mazdax605 wrote: I'll sell you my 1990 Mitsubishi delica wagonvan for a whole lot less. Maybe you can figure out what the mystery noise is?
Tell me more about this Delica. I've never seen one.
While I admit it will be difficult to find a westy in my price range I do not thinks it's impossible. Does anyone know of a swap that replaces the vw tranny as well as the engine? I'd like to have more than just four gears. I really wouldn't mind owning an 80's example of one, the older the better really. I sometimes think newer cares have too many gadgets or new tech that increase the vehicles reliability issues.
Yes, you can put in a Subaru trans to match your engine. I don't know if it's at the "just buy this kit" stage yet and it's a bit expensive because there's a custom reverse R&P involved - but you also don't need to buy an adapter plate for the trans to engine. Check out thesamba.com and you'll see a big long discussion in the Vanagon forum.
I'm sure a Porsche trans would work too
While VW Westys are reasonably expensive, the parts for/from one are not. Combine any conversion van fold down rear seat/bed with the Westy pop-up top and you're half-way there. This is GRM after all. If AWD and MPG is important get any minivan/crossover with AWD. If room and cost is more important then Astro or full-sized van, and Quigley it up later.
GRM sometimes means spending the money appropriately 
See my mention about a DIY Subaru swap vs buying a swapped car. The biggest difference was several hundred hours of labor.
Professionally prepared vehicles also retain their value. I know I'll be able to sell mine for what I paid for it or more. There's a lot to be said for that. A hacked up conversion van, I'd be less sure.
Um.... I have a 99 E350 full size van and its nice for TWO people. You're talking about 4 people and some fuzzy people. Westy ain't gonna cut it and neither are any of the other ones you mention.
1-ton cargo vans are dirt cheap, available in long or short, and you'll have $7000 of your budget left over for bedding, a generator, A/C, television, DVD player, an Xbox, and a self-aligning satellite dish. The Kegerator might put you over budget.
If you're handy with junkyard parts a 4x4 conversion is relatively cheap, but most Ford vans came with posi and all of them have a ton of clearance.
I bought my 99 E350 7.3L powerstroke diesel van with 90k miles, sliding door, and a rhino-lined cargo area for (a very high price of) $6000. So far I have spent about $400 on sound-deadening/insulation, air conditioning, A/V improvements, and carpet. The only other expense I plan to add is a Futon which I can most likely find for free. I can stuff some seat belts through it for 5-passenger safety and then fold it down for queen-sized love-makin. In your case, put the kids on some camp mats on the floor and skip the love-makin part.... unless you're really good at the ninja stealth sex.
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