Building a Garage - Where to Start?

SkinnyG said:

My build is here: SkinnyG's Workshop

I just went thought the whole build thread.  That is awesome.  Exactly what I would love to build.   

914Driver said:

Also look through the BRM back issues, Tom built one and published the build.

Can someone dig this up?   

Based on what I could decipher from my call to the city and looking at the codes, there's nothing that jumps out at me in my plans that should be a cause for worry.  But it looks like I'll need a good survey of the lot and huddle down with a contractor and/or architect. 

Really for phase 1 (which might be all I can afford at the moment) I think all I need is the foundation, structure, doors, electrical wiring, panel, outlets, and maybe plumbing lines and ethernet.  Insulation, drywall, extra lighting, shelving, lift, etc., etc. can all be added afterwards.  Just have to decide on a few "little" things. Oh, like final dimensions (likely between 576 and 672 sq feet), building style, attached vs detached, location on lot, exterior finish, etc. etc.  So, actually a lot of stuff.

scardeal said: Just have to decide on a few "little" things. Oh, like final dimensions (likely between 576 and 672 sq feet),

Too Small.   If you want to do any work in it 25' x  30' (750 sq ft) should be the minimum size.

How did you determine the range of 576-672sqft? You have the opportunity to more or less "future proof" this thing, both for you and future owners. Build it big enough to park just about any modern car or truck. Have the doors tall enough to easily fit tall SUVs or lifted Jeeps/pickups. Make sure you have the electrical infrastructure to handle several 240v outlets (Maybe a lift, welder, compressor, or electric car quick charger). Think about what you need now, as well as what might be needed in the near future. You won't regret having more space, I guarantee it. I have about 1000 sqft of attached garage, and 1500sqft of shop space. It's fantastic being able to easily load/unload stuff from the daily drivers without worrying about door dings, or knocking over garbage cans, kids bikes, etc. And having working room for projects and fun cars is much less stressful for me than being crammed into a tight space that ends up feeling cluttered.

If you're not limited by local regs, then I'd probably want it a little bigger than what you're currently thinking. I'd definitely build it deep enough to easily hold a crew cab/long bed truck. If not for you, then for resale. They can run over 22ft deep these days, so even 25ft deep would be fairly tight. I'd shoot for 30ft of depth. That would allow pretty much any modern vehicle to be parked inside with some room all around for loading/unloading or work.

Now for width. 9ft width for each vehicle, with 3ft on either side for door swings is a decent estimate. For a 2 bay wide garage, that's 27 ft. 30' would give you room down one side for shelving, tool boxes, beer fridge, etc.

So, I'd say 30'x30' if it's even remotely possible. 32'x32' would follow my own suggestion of keeping dimensions divisible by 8. 28'x32' could work too, but you'd be pretty limited with what/where you could store things on your side walls. 

I'm coming from a 20' x 20' attached.  It was a little tight, but it served my purposes, so a 24' x 24' would probably seem like a nice little upgrade.  28' x 24' sounds like I'd have plenty of extra room.  Then again, I had the mower in a separate tiny shed.  I don't envision this as daily driver parking.  Maybe that's where the disconnect is happening?

Perhaps.  What I hope to build would be purely a shop for long-term projects - 20x20 if I'm lucky (simply no room for anything larger).  Sometimes a smaller space forces your to be more efficient with storage and more thoughtful about adding "stuff."  Of course, that has not stopped me from filling my house to the brim with parts, but right now I am paying dearly for that lack of thoughtfulness. 

I'd love to have a huge garage, don't get me wrong.  I just have to balance between potential needs and budget.  And discussing this probably helps clarify what I'll realistically need. :)

Essentially, I can see a table saw, router table, drill press, air compressor, big toolbox, workbench, and, if I'm lucky, a lift as the big ticket items.  I can't imagine myself doing bodywork or painting.

In reply to scardeal :

I’ve had a large 30x40 shop with a lift for more than 20 years. I combine woodworking and car projects.

I realized a long time ago that those 2 activities do not get along. Grease in your wood finishes is almost as bad as sawdust in your engine. Over time, my shop became completely overgrown with crap from both activities, and I was unable to do either one.

I always thought the ideal answer would be 2 shops, but that was a silly extravagance. 

I am currently moving, and have no shop in the new location. I have a 2 car attached garage, that’s all.  There is no way I can fit everything in a 2 car garage. 

Some stuff has been going into storage, and I’ve been contemplating my options. 

I realized the only reason I need a big shop is because cars are big. They take up a lot of real estate. A project car needs 2 bays- one for the car, and one for the parts and work space. 

But woodworking is different.... I can fit several woodworking projects on top of a workbench.  An efficient Woodshop could be small and very functional. 

So, here’s my plan...

I am building a small efficient shop for woodwork only, with a wood floor (to guarantee I don’t try car stuff). 12x30. A beautiful little space with great light, high ceiling, nice windows, and a view. Detached from the house (dust and noise control). 

I will use the 2 car garage for car stuff only.  

And anything that doesn’t fit in those 2 spaces, I am getting rid of. Period. 

Side benefit... with no foundation, my woodshop will technically classify as a “shed”, and my town doesn’t tax property owners for sheds. 

YMMV

BTW, a shed like this can be purchased outright for about $10K new, delivered. 

I will build mine for much less, but either way it is a cost effective approach. 

If  there is any way you can do it, I would strongly recommend separating woodworking from cars. 

In reply to SVreX :

I wish...  a building that size in my twp needs a foundation. Yes - I talked to the planning dept.  Full below-the-frost-line with all the required permits and inspections (they gave me a stack of forms to fill out).  Basically - anything over 100 sqr ft cannot be a temporary structure.  Naturally, this is what has put my shop plans on hold as I investigate other options that I can sneak in under the radar... While ordinance and code enforcement where I live is not strictly monitored (there are violations up and down my small street), trying to sneak in a 400 sqr ft building would be pushing it. 

So "YMMV" indeed...

My plan was for the shop to do dusty stuff in - wood working and bodywork - while greasy work would be done in my existing garage.

In reply to SVreX :

I think realistically, I will probably be doing woodworking/carpentry at least at a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio compared to car tinkering.  I'm not going to be building a badass challenge car (for instance) in the foreseeable future.  For car stuff, it'll be comparatively minor stuff compared to what many people on this board do.  I just don't have the time talent or treasure to be dipping too deeply into the tinkering aspect of it in this stage of my life.  A big project for me would be installing suspension components already set up for the car.  A proper lift is probably super overkill, but it might make me more willing to try bigger stuff if I could raise the car easily.  I appreciate the advice about separating woodworking space from mechanic space, although I don't know how realistic that will be for me.

Also, wouldn't putting in an electrical sub-panel even in a "shed" for a compressor, cabinet saw, etc. require permitting anyway? 

In reply to scardeal :

Cool. 

Well then I would suggest that your smaller space is likely fine. Woodworking doesn’t need much (except for table saw indeed/ outfeed).  Bigger isn’t always better. 

You can always work on a car in the driveway. 

scardeal said:

In reply to SVreX :

Also, wouldn't putting in an electrical sub-panel even in a "shed" for a compressor, cabinet saw, etc. require permitting anyway? 

This is another "YMMV" thing.  So far, both townships I've dealt with in PA (mine) and NJ (my ex's house) require an electrical permit, inspection and sign-off for a sub-panel.  Installation could be done by the homeowner (me) and didn't require an electrician. Conversely, when the ex's uncle built a pole-barn shop at his house in rural PA, they didn't inspect anything other than a quick drive-by to verify he built what he said he was going to build.  They never set foot on the property.

That question is a little like asking if a permit is required for interior renovations performed by a homeowner on weekends. 

Yes, a permit may be required. No, no one would ever get one. 

scardeal said:

I'd love to have a huge garage, don't get me wrong.  I just have to balance between potential needs and budget.  And discussing this probably helps clarify what I'll realistically need. :)

Essentially, I can see a table saw, router table, drill press, air compressor, big toolbox, workbench, and, if I'm lucky, a lift as the big ticket items.  I can't imagine myself doing bodywork or painting.

I do both wood working and car stuff. With the wood working everything is on rollers. Everything. That way I can shove what I’m not using in a corner and roll out the table saw or whatever and have plenty of space.  I use workbenches as in-feed  and out feed.

 I wish I had a wood floor so when I drop a tool I don’t ruin the cutting edge.  Plus wood flooring is a whole lot easier on your back than concrete.   

I know of a couple of classic car shops that work on wooden floors. It's nice.  That said, the buildings are 100+ years old and those floors would be prohibitively expensive to duplicate today.

Ian F said:

scardeal said:

In reply to SVreX :

Also, wouldn't putting in an electrical sub-panel even in a "shed" for a compressor, cabinet saw, etc. require permitting anyway? 

This is another "YMMV" thing.  So far, both townships I've dealt with in PA (mine) and NJ (my ex's house) require an electrical permit, inspection and sign-off for a sub-panel.  Installation could be done by the homeowner (me) and didn't require an electrician. Conversely, when the ex's uncle built a pole-barn shop at his house in rural PA, they didn't inspect anything other than a quick drive-by to verify he built what he said he was going to build.  They never set foot on the property.

I was required to use a licensed electrician to connect the power from the street to my meter and circuit breaker panel. Everything from there I did myself.  When I finished I called the same electrician to check my work.  It passed without a single issue.  

The plumbing and HVAC are not required to be inspected if the home owner does it.  That’s what my building inspector told me.   Yours may differ. 

In reply to frenchyd :

I can guarantee that is not the case in most municipalities. 

The building inspector’s job is to make sure things are built to code, not to police the licensed professionals. 

I am not doubting you, but I have never seen that. Generally homeowners are required to get permits like everyone else, but are allowed to perform the work without a license as long as it is their primary residence. 

SVreX said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I can guarantee that is not the case in most municipalities. 

The building inspector’s job is to make sure things are built to code, not to police the licensed professionals. 

I am not doubting you, but I have never seen that. Generally homeowners are required to get permits like everyone else, but are allowed to perform the work without a license as long as it is their primary residence. 

I agree that the prime role of a building inspector is to verify code compliance not to police professionals. 

What’s unusual about my case is I had carefully studied the UBC  especially with regard to timberframes  The community I live in has a very strict policy and many  permit applications are rejected for technical compliance issues. Especially with regard  DIY.   

My first interaction with the building inspector I brought an exact scale model of my intentioned construction.  Rather than a set of blue prints.  

As he voiced objections I sited chapter, page, and verse  of the UBC that allowed my intention. Including reference studies by the University of Wisconsin with regard strength and decay resistance.  Then cited code compliance that authorized my use of those studies in leu of certification by a licensed architect.  I did it in a way that he didn’t have to defend himself so we didn’t become adversaries.  

His visits were friendly conversations rather than tense adversarial confrontations. He quickly realized I would always exceed any requirement and look for the best, not cheapest solution.

 I suspect that’s where so many confrontations begin, professionals need to make a profit and sometimes common practice falls short of requirements.  

In the end maybe that’s why I was allowed to sketch dimensions on a lined tablet and submit it for permits.