Cash for Clunkers

If you guys are still having problems finding $500 cars, I suggest looking.

I will echo Aeromoto's sentiment. For once, the common guy was able to school the system for a short period. Some of us got quite a bit over what our cars were worth at the scrap yard, all packaged as being patriotic and "saving the United States automotive industry" or somesuch.

I bet every last one of you takes every last tax credit and deduction you are allowed every time, ESPECIALLY if you run your own business (and are automatically in for a special kind of berkeleying). Makes no difference to me, speaking as a (very) small business owner.

Ok, im out...this thing has just gone plaid. Have fun, I will see you guys when you get back to reality.

There were a lot of nice cars that got scrapped... Not all of them were crap, I saw many of them in person.

BUT they blew up the engines!

Who cares about the redistribution of wealth/what to do with tax dollars, when the end result was needless destruction of recyclable goods.

I like to use junkyards as a hobby. Many people use them as a way to keep their car on the road. There were lots and lots of cars with usable parts that were destroyed. Yes many cars were not worth keeping alive, but they could have donated parts....

C4C was the dumbest of the dumb. I regularly toured the holding lots of the trade-ins during my job duties and I can tell you only about 10% of the cars needlessly removed from the roads were actually "clunkers". The rest were just something someone was tired of. Then let's add insult to financial injury (oh yeah, BTW, we didn't have the money to pay for this program) and intentionally ruin the drivelines so that no lower income people could get replacement parts from the junkyards these wound up in. My tax dollars paid to ruin perfectly good BMW M20 engines that otherwise could propel my race car to near-victory. All this so people could buy more imported cars (most bought Hondas and Toyotas; the Honda dealers around here had more trades than anyone by a huge margin). And it was sold to us under the premise of being "green". What a crock of crap.

Let me know what month I'll be able to use my Mexican built PT Cruiser. I feel I am entitled to use it for a equivalent time period of what it cost me. After all, I should be able to benefit from the entitlement as well.

There was a second part of the govt program related to C4C that I took advantage of. Instead of junking a car the govt. gave you a nice tax rebate without scrapping your old car as long as you bought a new vehicle (I cannot recall the amount but around $5K). In my case, I was sort of sure my Ford Freestar was still worth just a bit more that the standard C4C rebate.
Which it was.
So I bought a new 2009 Chevy Express cargo van (built in Wentzville, Missouri).
Now I have a better , US-built tow vehicle and my old semi-decent minivan got traded in an probably is solidering on somewhere. The Express van was originally $24,000 before a GM discount. I would been pretty lucky to get $6000 for the Ford minivan, but that's what they allowed me. So in the end I put out about $12,000 plus the minivan to get my new van. The govt program is what "tipped" me into buying. I see this as a good program overall (as I see much of the stimulus except the part where they gave away too much to the banks).
When I bought (late '09) the dealership was pretty dead and the sales guys seemed uber-grateful to see an actual customer. And the dealer was decent with some oil change coupons, so I still go back there and they get a few more bucks from me.
The van (AKA Vanna White) has done at least a dozen race-tows, most at least 5 hours each way. We're delighted with it. And it runs an Obama '12 sticker.

I saw the arse end of a 2nd gen RX7 sticking out of a Dumpster in NC which had 'Cash 4 Clunkers' all down the side of it.

The worse part about C4C isn't that I had money taken from me and given to some one else so they could buy a car I couldn't afford, its the waste of so many cars and car parts.

The US auto industry only saw a slight bump in sales and still had to be bailed at, again by taking money from me making it even harder for me to buy a new car.

Aeromoto's thought process is that of many American's...........

"I dislike Welfare programs, until they benefit me, then berkeley everyone else, I gotz me sum dat free moniez"

Which is a big part of the problem.

You guys don't make car insurance claims when you get into accidents either, do you?

So, an common American such as myself who has paid hundereds of thousands in taxes getting a $4500 govt incentive to buy a new car is "welfare", but billionaires getting more billions to cover their bad business decisions is a "bailout", not "welfare"? And the uber-rich and big corps dodging taxes entirely is a "tax break?? Hmmmm, I see.

So tell me, Fellas? Is the kool-aid tastey??? Actually, is sounding like you ordered the "tea".

At my peak of earnings before the economy crashed, I was getting $30k per year taken from my paychecks, and C4C has made me a welfare recipient? And that $30k per year was squondered on useless and illegal wars, subsidizing big corps that give it right back to the criminal politicians via the criminal lobbyists, given away to other countries that are now our enemies, etc. Oh yea, I am just riddled with guilt over getting $4500 of my tax dollars back.

Nope, that was still welfare too. And we didn't like it either.

Aeromoto, let me introduce you to the straw man.

I was calling for cuts in Defense spending, while I was working for a DEFENSE CONTRACTOR. Yes, I was calling for spending cuts that would directly affect my job.

I see both sides.

Here's the problem... Pretty much any Gov't program is crap. The way our gov't is structured now, it's more of a "what can we do that makes it look like we're helping everyone else, but it's really just helping us" type thing. Aeromoto, I agree with you on that.

The C4C was a bunch of crap. I didn't like the idea of it for the same reason most people on here didn't. It took all the old E36 M3boxes out of the equation. We can't get our hands on cool obscure parts if they crush all the cars!! That, and the fact that every old hunk of crap that people have limped around the streets was finally getting cleaned up. It had it's good and bad points.

We're getting some strong opinions on here guys, it's getting a little heated. Let's all take a breath and relax and have a good calm conversation. Open your mind and realize there's 2 points of view on this subject.

How is taking advantage of C4C different than taking advantage of any tax deduction, tax credit, etc.?

I just wish my fathers blue truck was kept on the road, I would have used that and gotten a Versa for $8K. On the down side, it is a versa.

Otto Maddox wrote: How is taking advantage of C4C different than taking advantage of any tax deduction, tax credit, etc.?

THINK OF THE OLD E36 M3TY CARS WE LIKE! WON'T YOU THINK OF THEM?

Yep. That's the difference.

Won't someone think of the children?

For once, the common guy was able to school the system for a short period.

No. The common guy (me) as usual, got berkeleyed. I am in the "upper crust" 50% who pay federal income tax. I was not, during C4C, in a position to buy a new car while keeping all of my other financial obligations and maintaining an 820 credit score. So I cruised along with my middle finger out the window of the mighty 350,000 mile Integra, driving back and forth to work every day so Uncle Scam could afford to create new welfare parasites.

Our neighbors couldn't afford a new car either, but they bought one anyway, because ZOMG! FREE MONEY! So the same dipE36 M3s (our neighbors) who bought more house than they could afford went out and bought a new car they couldn't afford because the same E36 M3 heads who told them they DESERVED a house, because that's only FAIR, told them they DESERVED a new car too! The car was gone in less than a year, they were gone the next year, and the house sat empty for another year, bank-owned, then sold for $40,000 less than we paid for ours.

Yeah, Van Jones and Hoopties for Homeez really helped the "little guy." Thanks ass holes.

Otto Maddox wrote: How is taking advantage of C4C different than taking advantage of any tax deduction, tax credit, etc.?

There may be no difference, but just because we already have a tax code fuster cluck doesn't mean we have to instill another one. The road to hell paved with good intentions, etc, etc.......

C4C was intended to do "good" things like many programs. Too bad no one took time to look for unintended consequences.

In reply to poopshovel:

How is this different than people who bought new air conditioners with a huge energy efficiency tax credit. I didn't need one at the time. My sister's just happened to die that year, so she made out great. I am not saying I like these kinds of credits. I am just saying I don't have a problem with people taking advantage of them.

oldsaw wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote: How is taking advantage of C4C different than taking advantage of any tax deduction, tax credit, etc.?

There may be no difference, but just because we already have a tax code fuster cluck doesn't mean we have to instill another one. The road to hell paved with good intentions, etc, etc....... C4C was intended to do "good" things like many programs. Too bad no one took time to look for unintended consequences.

Agreed. It was a stupid program.

Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to poopshovel: How is this different than people who bought new air conditioners with a huge energy efficiency tax credit. I didn't need one at the time. My sister's just happened to die that year, so she made out great. I am not saying I like these kinds of credits. I am just saying I don't have a problem with people taking advantage of them.

Well said.......don't hate the player, hate the game. It is perfectly acceptable to think C4C was a misguided, or inappropriate program. It is not fair to demonize those that took part in a legal governmental program regardless of what your opinion of that program was. They didn't break the law, they didn't "steal" your money, they did what they thought was best for themselves and their families.

For instance--- A buddy of mine has 5 kids. He works his ass off, plays by the rules and is raising a great family of hard-working, respectful kids. He doesn't get food stamps, he isn't on welfare, and he is about as far from being a drain on society as you can be. His family had a worn out old full-size van that they traded on a new GMC Acadia. Because of the C4C he got a screaming deal. This was good for him and his family.

If you don't like the law, change the lawmakers. Don't paint those that follow the law as the criminals.

geez.....

Hoopties for Homeez has got to be the funniest thing I've read on here in awhile. Thank you I needed that.

Hoopties for Homeez is ignorant and even a bit of a racist statement. I don't know your neighbor's financial situation, but if you remember at the time, no one could get financing unless you had stellar credit, or had the means to pay cash for the car like we did. I doubt there were too many "Homeez?" that took advantage of C4C.

Aeromoto wrote: Hoopties for Homeez is ignorant and even a bit of a racist statement. I don't know your neighbor's financial situation, but if you remember at the time, no one could get financing unless you had stellar credit, or had the means to pay cash for the car like we did. I doubt there were too many "Homeez?" that took advantage of C4C.

How is that racist? "Homeez" isn't a race...

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

Aeromoto wrote: Hoopties for Homeez is ignorant and even a bit of a racist statement. I don't know your neighbor's financial situation, but if you remember at the time, no one could get financing unless you had stellar credit, or had the means to pay cash for the car like we did. I doubt there were too many "Homeez?" that took advantage of C4C.

How is that racist? "Homeez" isn't a race...

NOT racist, but it's always good the throw the "card" to disguise what is obviously a "commie" plot.

Bottom line - it was a stoopid plan that benefitted a few people but not enough of them to justify the ROI.

It felt good, though.