Chasing down deadbeats

Bumboclot wrote: I work at a Mom and Pop electronics shop is what is essentially a three college town. With such a large transient population, we do not accept any personal checks (exceptions given for really good local customers). 1: No ticky, no washy. Customer can come back when he has the funds on him. 2: At least you broke even. Now get whatever you can for the merchandise. 3 & 4: No personal checks. Anyone with a checking account should have a debit card or at least an ATM card (and ATM's are everywhere). If they don't, see #1. Just remember: Cash (or it's plastic equivalent) rules everything around me. Dolla Dolla Bill Y'all Dan

Up in Potsdam, by any chance?

I'm not a lawyer, but I've learned a little about how it works in GA.

In a nutshell, you're screwed. Move on. Legal means will be a big PITA, and you could likely loose.

OK, for the slightly longer version (and not too legal perspective) if you care.

The Constitution of the State of GA is one of the longest legal documents in the world. There's lots of reasons for this, but the core essence is that GA was founded as a debtors colony, and all these crooks who founded this place wrote as many loopholes as they could to protect themselves and their interests. They came from places they were wanted by the law, and they didn't want laws that put them back in the same boat.

I know. I'm being a bit cynical and stereotypical. Bear with me. I'm just gabbing.

So, at the core of all these laws is a basic question. What constitutes theft? And the answer is... almost nothing.

In court, you generally do not have to prove possession and lack of payment to prove theft. You have to prove intent.

In other words, it is not a crime to have in your possession something that you did not pay for completely. It is a crime to intend to not pay for it at the time you purchase it.

In your case, the application would be that they intended to pay for it when they placed the order. Maybe things changed, whatever. It's really hard to prove that they intended to not pay you when they placed the order.

Take the writeoff. Change your SOP to include the understanding that items not picked up within a given amount of time (60 days? 30 days?) will be disposed of (so you don't get in trouble with Grandma for disposing of that family heirloom pic of her hotness grandbaby)

Jensenman wrote: Active duty military, there's a sneaky way to do it: if you get a bad check etc from a member of the military, call them and give them a chance to pay up. BUT! Tell them if they DON'T pay by that date you will call their commanding officer. Then do it if they don't come through. Something like that becomes part of their permanent military record if the CO so chooses.

We actually get powerpoints on dealing with that E36 M3. It's depressingly common.

poopshovel wrote: I might consider a no checks policy though. But you'd be surprised how many older folks still pay with checks (no debit card.) Thanks for the advice, guys.

In that case if paying by check the full amount must be paid up front, work will commence after the check has cleared. That leaves them the option if they refuse to join the modern world and covers you.

I'm not even sure I have checks anymore....

93celicaGT2 wrote: Up in Potsdam, by any chance?

Nope, Ithaca.

Bumboclot wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote: Up in Potsdam, by any chance?

Nope, Ithaca.

Ah ok. I'm familiar with that area, too. Ithaca is Gorges!

I <3 SVreX. Thanks man. That's exactly what I was looking for.

And yes, as far as all of you know, I'm "letting it go;" just like I'd let it go if someone came into my house and stole my stuff. Yeah. That's what I'll do. I'll "let it go."

FYI: My "total outstanding deadbeat balance" is roughly enough to make a mortgage payment.

Mine or yours? Mine is like $200.00 which is about what the group of us wasted in our bosses time just readin and responding to this thread

Yup. Let it go. It's a cost of doing business. Find out what's average for your industry, and if you find yourself running bad debt above the average, see if you can pinpoint why--what are most doing that you're not? how is your shop different?--and correct the problem.

Comfort yourself with the knowledge that at least you got something on these balances, for the most part, and if you didn't, you still have the items--unlike our business.

We run into a few "smart businessmen" every year who whine and rush and dodge and feint their way around signing the insertion order for ads. They'll send the copy at the last minute ("please please please get this in the issue") with the I/O "right behind it to come," and then "forget" to send the contract, etc. Then, when the ad runs and they get the bill... they claim they never ordered it. Smugly. What're we gonna do, take the ad back? Snort, snort. We have little recourse, other than waiting for their own lousy karma to catch up with them.

Fortunately, it almost always does--and being there long enough to catch the show when it happens is one of the great satisfactions of surviving in business 25 years.

Margie

Moving forward in addition to the "Items left over 30 days subject to sale" policy, what if you offer a discount for 100% payment at the time of order? You have a carrot and stick for timely/early payment.

They never heard of a fax machine, Margie? I'd be like, sure, we can do that for you. Fax me back the paperwork, then mail me the original. At least you'd have the fax to send to Guido. A business without a fax machine or scanner today probably shouldn't be advertising anywhere. Of course, a business that screws people over like that won't be around long either.

All very interesting thoughts. Thanks folks. I'm still interested in the legality of tossing/selling people's E36 M3. I suppose (???) if there's something in writing, specifically on their receipt, I'd be golden(?)

Right now, if sits in the hall until it's picked up. If it sits in the hall for over a year, it goes into the attic. I've got a fair amount of E36 M3 (stuff that's already been "written off") in the attic. I'm terrified of getting sued, and I'm too much of a cheap-skate to pay a lawyer to give me an official answer.

Our deadbeats tend to be a bit different; if it's a bad check our check company takes care of that so we are out the whatever percentage of the month's checks. People have been known to stop payment on a credit card, the problem is that the CC company will do an investigation and so far every time we have come out on the winning side. About the only ones who have gotten away with it are the ones who come in after hours and STEAL THEIR OWN CAR. It's not common but it has happened. I have been personally involved in just one case like that; the guy reported his car stolen from our lot and refused to pay the bill. It was recovered in Tennessee about a block from his brother's house. It was impounded and we had a mechanic's lien on it, plus the insurance company had paid it off so we and they actually owned the car, meaning the owner couldn't claim it. So karma came around.

Dr. Hess wrote: They never heard of a fax machine, Margie? I'd be like, sure, we can do that for you. Fax me back the paperwork, then mail me the original. At least you'd have the fax to send to Guido. A business without a fax machine or scanner today probably shouldn't be advertising anywhere. Of course, a business that screws people over like that won't be around long either.

Of course they have fax machines. Of course we give 'em the "sure, we'll do that for you, but fax our stuff." We also require payment up front for new advertisers. This ain't my first rodeo. But with 150+ ads in every issue, there are a few who are able to pull the ole quick-change between the ad and A/R depts and fake the timing well enough to slide in for an issue.

The businesses who pull this crap are usually bigger names with layers of bureaucracy that they have working very effectively for them. And some of them have remarkable staying power for their scumminess--but in the end, yes, people who deal this way don't last.

Margie

Like I said before, change your SOP to include the WRITTEN understanding that items not picked up within a given amount of time (60 days? 30 days?) will be disposed of.

As far as the stuff you've got, you can either store it indefinitely, or attempt to contact them before disposal (certified mail), then make a decision.

Personally, I'd stick it all in a box, seal it, date it, and put up with storing it. Chalk it up to a lesson learned, but change your policy from now on.

If it equals a storage unit quantity, you might want to talk to a lawyer.

I <3 Poopy too.

Gawd, I hope my wife doesn't see that I said that! (and don't y'all even THINK of printing it in the magazine!).

Like I said before, change your SOP to include the WRITTEN understanding that items not picked up within a given amount of time (60 days? 30 days?) will be disposed of.

I'm into that. I get it. I'm just wondering whether or not actually getting rid of the stuff is LEGAL. I can put fine print at the bottom of the receipt that says "If you don't pick your E36 M3 up all quick-like, I'm going to come to your house with a bat and start wrecking E36 M3," but I'm pretty sure that doesn't legally allow me to go to the deadbeats house and wreck E36 M3. Naaawwmeeean?

Trust me. The idea of pulling apart the framed 4' X 6' horribly done quilt and using it for kindling has been discussed on more than one occasion. It would make me feel warm inside. But I'm not sure if it's legal.

Marjorie Suddard wrote: Of course they have fax machines. Of course we give 'em the "sure, we'll do that for you, but fax our stuff." We also require payment up front for new advertisers. This ain't my first rodeo. But with 150+ ads in every issue, there are a few who are able to pull the ole quick-change between the ad and A/R depts and fake the timing well enough to slide in for an issue. The businesses who pull this crap are usually bigger names with layers of bureaucracy that they have working very effectively for them. And some of them have remarkable staying power for their scumminess--but in the end, yes, people who deal this way don't last.

In that case, after 'X' number of attempts to collect, I think you should be able to print an ad stating that 'X' company owes you 'X' amount and is unwilling to pay! That would get their attention!! Not sure if that constitutes libel, but it seems appropriate to me.

Tempting, but... illegal. There are times when I see deadbeat companies mentioned by shoppers on the board here, and it can be hard to keep my mouth shut. Stupid laws.

Margie

I'm reasonably sure even with a picture you can start charging storage fees just like you would with a car abandoned on your property. My disclaimer would go something like: "For items not picked up within 30 days of notice of completion a $5 per day storage fee will be added to the bill until such time as the storage fee is equal to the deposit submitted. At that point the item will become the property of my shop and will be disposed of as I see fit to recover expenses incurred. To avoid this forfeiture of your item and subsequent re-sale of it by me you should pay for your item in a timely manner and treat me with the respect with which I treat your prized possesions as I frame them."

I mostly kid...but from what I read, truth is a valid defense for a charge of libel. If they haven't paid, you have documented evidence of attempts to collect, they refuse to pay, then you're in the clear. No?

Clearly...I'm not a lawyer.

Truth is a defense in the absence of malice. Unfortunately, outing deadbeats to their customers can be construed as intent to harm their business, and intent to harm a business is malice.

Margie

Marjorie Suddard wrote: Truth is a defense in the absence of malice. Unfortunately, outing deadbeats to their customers can be construed as intent to harm their business, and intent to harm a business is malice. Margie

Ahh. That makes sense too.

poopshovel wrote:

Like I said before, change your SOP to include the WRITTEN understanding that items not picked up within a given amount of time (60 days? 30 days?) will be disposed of.

I'm into that. I get it. I'm just wondering whether or not actually getting rid of the stuff is LEGAL. I can put fine print at the bottom of the receipt that says "If you don't pick your E36 M3 up all quick-like, I'm going to come to your house with a bat and start wrecking E36 M3," but I'm pretty sure that doesn't legally allow me to go to the deadbeats house and wreck E36 M3. Naaawwmeeean? Trust me. The idea of pulling apart the framed 4' X 6' horribly done quilt and using it for kindling has been discussed on more than one occasion. It would make me feel warm inside. But I'm not sure if it's legal.

Go for it! They "misplaced" your money. You can "misplace" their quilt!

Marjorie Suddard wrote: The businesses who pull this crap are usually bigger names with layers of bureaucracy that they have working very effectively for them. And some of them have remarkable staying power for their scumminess--but in the end, yes, people who deal this way don't last.

I kind of want to go through my back issues now and find outfits that have run only one advertisement, and then stopped.