Cheap cars and modern safety gizmos

My wife recently had a fender bender in her '10 Civic and the insurance is talking about it possibly being totaled. I'm kinda thinking this might be the time to get her in something with all the modern safety features (blind spot monitoring, automatic collision avoidance braking, lane keeping assist, radar cruise, etc.) Now that you can get them in a Civic or an Impreza or something similar.

So, what's the story on these systems as they're filtering down into regular-people cars? I looked in the Subaru and Honda websites and they each have at least a couple options in the sub-$25k (or close to it) range. Anything else I should look at make/model-wise? I am a bit of a reliability snob, so German and Italian cars are out, ditto for Mopars.

IMHO-- A good driver's school will keep her safer than any electronics could hope to.

I'm the resident troglodyte, so there's that. If these appeal to you, Mazda's systems are pretty well integrated, and you can turn them off if you find them distracting.

I don't know if anyone other than Honda does this, but a lot of their cars have a camera in the right side rear view mirror housing that uses the center touchscreen when you hit the right turn signal. It's a small thing, but it's amazing to me how much it improves lane changes.

I suggest you try to drive a car so equipped for a least a couple of days before you buy one. Even if you have to rent one.

We test drove a Subaru with all that gee-whiz stuff on it ("Eyesight") and the salesman made it sound like it will all save your life every moment you are driving. And there are some features that really sound attractive.

However, we also recently rented another vehicle with all these nanny devices on it. After living with them for a few days we've found that they are just bloody annoying. Constant beeps and alarms and even the seat vibrating (Suburban, not Subaru). None of the alarms were helpful in providing information that we didn't already know.

Also, I've learned that you've got to disable the automatic rear braking in order to hitch up a trailer. And there's a guy in one forum who had the automatic front braking engage for no good reason because, apparently, of some bright sun getting into one of the cameras.

I've been driving for a long time without killing myself and I don't drive with my nose in my smartphone, so no thank you. If we buy a Subaru we'll order it without the nanny and save ourselves a couple thousand bucks in the process.

On the other hand, my boss, who is 70, is looking to buy a new vehicle specifically for these features. He feels he is not the driver he used to be and needs some help.

The sales brochure for the 2016 Impreza reminds owners to turn Eyesight functions off before entering a carwash. I had never thought of that, but I can see where the little bot might get freaked out by several huge soapy objects getting closer... and closer... and OMG WE'LL ALL BE KILLED!

I'm had a new Escalade as a loaner a year or so ago that had all of the new safety stuff. I don't like lane departure, but I LOVE the 360 degree camera for backup. It's like magic. I could see the dog run completely around the truck on camera where I couldn't see it at all out the windows. I like HUD, especially HUD turn by turn. I like the adaptive cruise control on my Mercedes so much I'd pay for it. I love the Apple car play radio I installed in my wife's FJ Cruiser. Nobody should text and drive, but she has a commute that sometimes stretches to a hour and there are work people that want her time, text to speech through the car is fantastic. I would love a car that integrated cameras into the rear view mirror that would eliminate C pillars in a virtual sense. That's the next big one I'm looking forward to.

I agree on the driver training, though I haven't seen anything local that is basic car control for adult non-racers. Maybe I should get her to do an autocross class?
She got her driver's license late and doesn't drive much, so it's a bit of inexperience, and everyone makes mistakes, even if some of us don't like to own up to them.

I like the idea of a car equipped with these features but allowing them to be defeatable, separately ideally. For example, I think I'd want the lane keeping assistance off for driving around in town, but probably keep the automatic braking on most of the time.

I'm not surprised that GM's implementation is somewhat flawed and annoying.

I do like the idea of trying to do an extended test-drive.

I realize this kind of stuff is not popular around here, but I've always been fascinated with technology and automation. This stuff is exciting to me. That said, I do think we may be entering a dangerous period where the car does a lot of driving itself, but the driver is still ultimately responsible. I sincerely hope this is the last car we buy for her that she has to actually drive. I will keep my FR-S, buy she'd be perfectly happy--and safer--in her automated transportation pod.

Blind spot detection...if I never have another insurance claim on a car fitted with this stupidity I'll be a happy man. Sensors located in the rear quarter behind the bumper. Knock one out of adjustment on a Camry and it will take multiple hours at the dealership to get it re-calibrated at a not insignificant cost.

All of these nanny aids are expensive, intrusive and will be a nightmare on ten year old used cars that GRMers like to buy. At 52 I'm hoping my '06 Mustang will be the newest car I ever own.

I teat drove a Volvo with BLIS (their version of blind spot detection) and the result is an irritating blinking light all the time. I found it to be a feature I would pay not to have.

I have ranted about adaptive cruise before, but I would like it when on longer drives on interstates.

I don't want lane departure warnings of any kind. I am also skeptical about any type of automatic braking although I have a car (Volvo) that has some version of it. It makes me want to try to drive into the side of my house and see if the car stops or not, but I don't trust it enough to try it out.

In reply to mazdeuce:

The 360 degree camera sounds useful. Does it only work at certain speeds? I wish I could activate my rear view camera sometime when I am not in reverse.

T.J. wrote: It makes me want to try to drive into the side of my house and see if the car stops or not, but I don't trust it enough to try it out.

This thought I'd in the back of my head every time I talk about that system.
As a prosecutor who handles traffic cases (many of which, of course are citations out of traffic accidents), I'm not sure how much benefit the blind spot monitoring and the lane departure warnings are. BUT, the automatic collision avoidance braking, once it becomes standard in many cars, will save millions of dollars a year in prevented rear-endings. Such a system probably would have prevented the crash my wife just had!

I'll take all the gizmos I can get, as long as I can turn off the ones I don't like.

ShadowSix wrote:

T.J. wrote: It makes me want to try to drive into the side of my house and see if the car stops or not, but I don't trust it enough to try it out.

This thought I'd in the back of my head every time I talk about that system. As a prosecutor who handles traffic cases (many of which, of course are citations out of traffic accidents), I'm not sure how much benefit the blind spot monitoring and the lane departure warnings are. BUT, the automatic collision avoidance braking, once it becomes standard in many cars, will save millions of dollars a year in prevented rear-endings. Such a system probably would have prevented the crash my wife just had!

we were rearended while sitting in a turning lane in the beginning of October in the girlfriend's 2010 Impala by a 19 year old dipE36 M3 in a 98 Chevy K1500WT that was eating a sandwich and looking at his phone after leaving a stoplight.. how about we work on making the penalties for this kind of stupidity a lot more harsh- automatic felony with no chance to plea down to a lesser charge with loss of license and vehicle registration like they do with DWI cases- instead of taking the driver out of the equation with more crap that makes cars and trucks more expensive and drivers more apathetic?

During the transition to autonomy, which won't occur until cars can actually take evasive action, one concern is unintended consequences created by reliance on enabling tech. Yes, you may have emergency full brake assist, but what about the car behind you? And, as you jump between cars with and without tech will you forget to check all those places, blind spots, etc. that the computers have been doing for you?

See Andy Pilgrim's Traffic Safety Education Foundation for info as he's heavy into that research right now.

And, driving schools are fine. SO LONG as there is consistent and reliable follow up to check for skill degradation. Most of us on this forum do this as a matter of course through a-x, track events, etc., but jo average driver not so much.

Read the fine print on the tech applied to an individual vehicle. Some tech does not work over a certain speed, in some types of weather, etc. You are still liable regardless of the tech. As my Dad always told me at the bowling alley after I'd missed a certain spare, "a poor workman blames his tools."

When I bought my 2015 Outback I did a lot of research and test driving to learn about all these new features.

Long story short: The only thing I got was the rear backup camera. didn't even get the navigation(my phone is better).

On the Outback forum there is at least one thread a week asking how to turn off a feature and all he little beeps that come from it.

ShadowSix wrote: She got her driver's license late and doesn't drive much, so it's a bit of inexperience, and everyone makes mistakes, even if some of us don't like to own up to them.

I would think that all the beeps, etc would be a very distracting to an inexperienced driver. I know they were to me on my test drives and I've been driving for 57 years.

Hal wrote:

ShadowSix wrote: She got her driver's license late and doesn't drive much, so it's a bit of inexperience, and everyone makes mistakes, even if some of us don't like to own up to them.

I would think that all the beeps, etc would be a very distracting to an inexperienced driver. I know they were to me on my test drives and I've been driving for 57 years.

That actually makes a lot of sense. If the distraction factor of all this is is going to contribute to accidents, then it's not worth it.

I wonder if anyone is selling a system with ONLY automatic collision-avoidance braking and radar cruise. I think those are the least problematic features based on the feedback here.
Also, unlike the lane keeping assistance, the automatic braking seems like it wouldn't give the same sense of the car driving itself. It's a feature that only makes itself apparent once you've already seriously screwed up and need to be bailed out.

ShadowSix wrote: I wonder if anyone is selling a system with ONLY automatic collision-avoidance braking and radar cruise. I think those are the least problematic features based on the feedback here.

Some of the systems are radar based and some are camera based. In my research I found that they seem to work very well in situations like they are marketed as doing. But it seems like the failsafe mode is "when in doubt slam on the brakes".

In a high traffic situation where someone suddenly cuts in front of you that may be problematic. There have also been reports of automatic braking when no reason is apparent. Tunnels, etc can be problems. Subaru warns you to make sure you turn off Eyesight if you are going thru a car wash where the rollers pull the car thru (the brushes will activate the automatic braking).

The Club and GT versions of the ND Miata come with different levels of nannygear, and the Fiat has a slightly different mix. So I've had a chance to drive what is essentially the same car with a range of abilities.

• lane departure gets turned off and left off.
• blind spot monitoring is mostly just extra info - not annoying (it's just a warning light in the appropriate mirror) but not a big deal if it's missing.
• I wish my truck had a backup camera for hooking up a trailer. Useful, although I have some trust issues with just how close I can get in the Fiat.
• Self-steering headlights aren't really a safety tweak, but they sure are nice.
• traction control gets turned off every time.

None of the cars have autobraking, so I can't comment on that. They all have ABS, of course, which was the devil incarnate for some car guys when it was new. On one of the cars, the ABS is currently intermittent and the electronic brake distribution that's part of it is really useful.