Honda has had a long history of half-assing a release then pointing to the lack of sales for why they shouldn't waste their time. It's nothing new. They like to play it too conservative and end up behind the market with "ok" products instead of awesome.
I thought all car makers did that?
maybe because they are ugly, boring, and overpriced? That 2 level dashboard has GOT to go....
Gearheadotaku wrote: maybe because they are ugly, boring, and overpriced? That 2 level dashboard has GOT to go....
This. My wife and I were looking at trading in our 2012 Equinox for a cheaper car. We looked at used Civics with lower mileage. She loves Hondas, but didn't want to trade for one of those crap boxes. All the other automakers learned how to build cars exponentially better, and Honda lost their advantage. The Accords are decent, compared to other cars in their segment, and the Odyssey's are maybe the best minivan, but the Civics aren't the best small car any more.
And that dual-level dashboard sucks.
Its an interesting chicken and egg scenario. People need transportation. Those who are out to buy a car will BUY A CAR, they will not simply go "there are no cars that currently suit my exact needs, therefore I will not buy one". So when car manufacturers offer a car that sells well (for a variety of reasons) and they go "people asked for this", what they really mean is "people bought what we offered, so therefore, we must be making the right decision".
You guys talk like Honda is going to go under because of this hideously out of date, uncompetitive Civic. I won't argue that the current car isn't appealing, but it's the second highest selling compact in the country, and way ahead of a lot of the cars that people here are using as examples of what Honda should be doing with the Civic.
They've basically had a bad month or two, which can be for a variety of reasons. Overall sales are down just over 1% from 2013.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2014/11/usa-small-car-sales-figures-october-2014-ytd.html
I wish more car makers would build hatches.. and not just boring appliance hatches.. some people like sporty and need some utlity.
In reply to bravenrace:
careful, making an appeal to proportionality is not looked upon kindly to the sensationals out there~ ;p
Honda makes two small hatchbacks, the CR-V and the Element. Both have taken over where the Civic Hatch and Accord wagon left off. The problem with the Civic is that it has has not enough horsepower for way too long, and has been an ugly duckling for equally as long. The Koreans do value better, Ford, VW and Mazda do sporty better, lots of companies do mileage as well or better...what is the reason to go with a Civic anymore? And why pick a Civic when you can get the better and more practical Fit for a little less, or the amazing Accord for a little more?
Bobzilla wrote: Honda has had a long history of half-assing a release then pointing to the lack of sales for why they shouldn't waste their time. It's nothing new. They like to play it too conservative and end up behind the market with "ok" products instead of awesome.
They do exactly the same thing with their bikes, probably even worse.
@pinchvalve:
Honda doesn't make the Element any more. And the Fit is a small hatchback, not sure why it wouldn't have made your list.
mad_machine wrote: I wish more car makers would build hatches.. and not just boring appliance hatches.. some people like sporty and need some utlity.
Agreed, a two-door hatch would work so well for me that I’d be willing to live with it being FWD so long as I could get it with a manual transmission. However, VW is the only manufacturer that doesn’t employee what I consider to be unacceptably fanciful styling (I know, I know, coming from a guy that drives what is basically a grasshopper on crack) but their poor reputation for reliability eliminates them from my consideration so I’m out.
madmallard wrote:Fueled by Caffeine wrote: the Fit is the new civic.^^^ This The Civic has been around long enough to bloat into the size category that the accord used to be in the early 90s. the 3rd gen civic of the 90s that most people think about when considering the older civics is 150" long with a 94" wheelbase. The current civic is 177" with a 105" wheelbase. and the 90's accord was 185" with a 106" wb.
and if I remember correctly the Fit is larger in every respect than the original Accord 
pinchvalve wrote: Honda makes two small hatchbacks, the CR-V and the Element. Both have taken over where the Civic Hatch and Accord wagon left off. The problem with the Civic is that it has has not enough horsepower for way too long, and has been an ugly duckling for equally as long. The Koreans do value better, Ford, VW and Mazda do sporty better, lots of companies do mileage as well or better...what is the reason to go with a Civic anymore? And why pick a Civic when you can get the better and more practical Fit for a little less, or the amazing Accord for a little more?
I would offer my differing opinion … neither of those are small … maybe they're small compared to a full size SUV … but they ain't small 
The civic fits in the middle of pinchvalve's arguement:
I think the auto journalists have said plenty, and it's that the Civic doesn't even compete anymore. It's almost as if Honda has given up on it, because they just keep refreshing an almost 10 year old platform, they need to start from scratch.
They no longer have the model range here in the US that they once have, just like the Corolla. They literally only have the Sedan and coupe. That's it. They don't have a Wagon, 3-Door hatch, or a 5-door hatch.
To me, that's going to botch your sales. If you want the sales numbers, your have to update your models and have enough models to give to potential customers. As someone said already, there is competition.
Not all of the auto journalists have counted out the latest Civic: There's now a new Civic Si sedan parked in my garage. (Well, technically my wife just moved it out of the garage for a few, but you know what I mean.)
David S. Wallens wrote: Not all of the auto journalists have counted out the latest Civic: There's now a new Civic Si sedan parked in my garage. (Well, technically my wife just moved it out of the garage for a few, but you know what I mean.)
Welcome to the "Unpopular on GRM Car Club" with us 500L drivers. The meetings are on Wednesdays and we rotate who brings cookies.
In reply to David S. Wallens:
I'm just going by what I've read in non GRM publications
logdog wrote:David S. Wallens wrote: Not all of the auto journalists have counted out the latest Civic: There's now a new Civic Si sedan parked in my garage. (Well, technically my wife just moved it out of the garage for a few, but you know what I mean.)Welcome to the "Unpopular on GRM Car Club" with us 500L drivers. The meetings are on Wednesdays and we rotate who brings cookies.
No doubt.
I used to really like Hondas. A 1991 CRX Si was the first car I drove that made me realize cars can have less than 8 cylinders and be fun. I remember when the EG hatch first came out in 1992. I REALLY wanted to go but a new Si then, but couldn't afford to.
On my way to work today I saw a 4dr sedan Civic Si. It was so blandly hideous all I can say is it filled me with revulsion. It made me think "What the hell happened to you Honda?"
I wonder how many of you have driven a newer civic or fit for a reasonable amount of time other than just reading reviews and forum opinions on the vehicles. The 09+ Fit was a great car, down on power but yes just like the old Civics but better. The 8th gen Civics were awesome in Si form. The base models seemed to not be built as great. The 9th Gen civics (2012 excluded) are great vehicles. Solid, decent features, comfortable, handle well, etc. The Si is even better even though it's underpowered compared to it's competition; but, when has a Civic ever been the leader in the HP department? I drove another Si back to back from my STI today and just for some reason the Civic was a bit more engaging and visceral. Maybe it's the engine noise that gets me going compared to the smoother quieter turbo. That 23k Si also came with way more features than my 34k STI and it doesn't share the same interior as half the Honda lineup like all Subarus do (so to you saying they offer a superior product...check yourself). And Honda doesn't build a reliable car? What planet do you live on?
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: It's almost as if Honda has given up on it, because they just keep refreshing an almost 10 year old platform, they need to start from scratch.
You're missing the genius of Honda. I noticed when I was (briefly) a mechanic that Honda is probably the most evolutionary automaker selling cars in the US. While succeeding generations of other makers' cars often looked to be a clean sheet redesign, each new Honda was built on an evolution of an existing design. Not just that the 6th-gen Civic was an evolution from the 5th-gen, but that the Odyssey was an evolution of the Accord. I strongly believe that a great deal of Honda's success up to now (and despite the poo-pooing around here it is a massively successful company, this is the ninth largest automaker in the world, and they didn't start making cars until the mid '60s) is their pragmatic reluctance to reinvent the wheel. I am as disappointed with the current Civic as everyone else, when I got rid of my old Accord I ended up replacing it with a Fit, but "starting from scratch" is not the answer.
logdog wrote:David S. Wallens wrote: Not all of the auto journalists have counted out the latest Civic: There's now a new Civic Si sedan parked in my garage. (Well, technically my wife just moved it out of the garage for a few, but you know what I mean.)Welcome to the "Unpopular on GRM Car Club" with us 500L drivers. The meetings are on Wednesdays and we rotate who brings cookies.
Since the wife and I are looking at the 500L and/or an NC (the least popular Miotter), I'll have her bake some cookies for the next meeting.
Opinions are just like shiny happy people, everyone has one and some are more smelly than others.
logdog wrote:David S. Wallens wrote: Not all of the auto journalists have counted out the latest Civic: There's now a new Civic Si sedan parked in my garage. (Well, technically my wife just moved it out of the garage for a few, but you know what I mean.)Welcome to the "Unpopular on GRM Car Club" with us 500L drivers. The meetings are on Wednesdays and we rotate who brings cookies.
Can I bring my Audi? :)
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