Corona Vaccine - Anyone getting it?

In reply to Snowdoggie :

Most people forget how Jonas Salk became the world's first billionaire after executing the rouse upon us all. 

[/Sarcasm] 

EDIT: Tuna, this is in agreement with you, not directed at you. 

tuna55 said:

In reply to Subscriber-unavailabile :

there's a really big fallacy here that I'm surprised we haven't stumbled upon yet. Comorbidities are part of nearly every death certificate ever written. It's not covid specifically causing this, almost everybody who dies has more than one thing that they die from.

My daughter was killed by a virus. 

A virus attacked her heart in utero. The virus weakened her heart, and caused an MI (heart attack). Because of her heart, she had to go on ECMO. When on ECMO, you have to be on a pretty heavy dose of a blood thinner, usually (always?) Heparin. Heparin is a miracle drug, a lifesaver. It is also extremely dangerous. It means you can't do significant operations because the patient will bleed out. It also increases the risk of a brain hemorrhage. The heart problems ended up causing an ischemic stroke - we don't know when exactly that happened, we just know that it happened. Strokes increase your risk for a brain hemorrhage (another kind of stroke). Guess what happened? She had a brain bleed. We couldn't do anything. She died.

So what was the cause of death? The hemorrhage? The Heparin? The first stroke? The MI? Or what about the virus, that sent her down this path in the first place? All of them are listed on the death certificate, or alluded to (Heparin). I tell people she was killed by a virus. Because the virus directly caused the heart attack. If we stopped care there, and not put her on ECMO and Heparin, she would have died sooner. From a virus. 

I'm tired of that argument. "Dale Earnhardt didn't die from a car crash, he died from a skull fracture and brain bleed." Right. 

This has gone as expected. Same people, regurgitating the same stuff over and over, and no one changing their mind. 

mtn (Forum Supporter) said:

EDIT: Tuna, this is in agreement with you, not directed at you. 

tuna55 said:

In reply to Subscriber-unavailabile :

there's a really big fallacy here that I'm surprised we haven't stumbled upon yet. Comorbidities are part of nearly every death certificate ever written. It's not covid specifically causing this, almost everybody who dies has more than one thing that they die from.

My daughter was killed by a virus. 

A virus attacked her heart in utero. The virus weakened her heart, and caused an MI (heart attack). Because of her heart, she had to go on ECMO. When on ECMO, you have to be on a pretty heavy dose of a blood thinner, usually (always?) Heparin. Heparin is a miracle drug, a lifesaver. It is also extremely dangerous. It means you can't do significant operations because the patient will bleed out. It also increases the risk of a brain hemorrhage. The heart problems ended up causing an ischemic stroke - we don't know when exactly that happened, we just know that it happened. Strokes increase your risk for a brain hemorrhage (another kind of stroke). Guess what happened? She had a brain bleed. We couldn't do anything. She died.

So what was the cause of death? The hemorrhage? The Heparin? The first stroke? The MI? Or what about the virus, that sent her down this path in the first place? All of them are listed on the death certificate, or alluded to (Heparin). I tell people she was killed by a virus. Because the virus directly caused the heart attack. If we stopped care there, and not put her on ECMO and Heparin, she would have died sooner. From a virus. 

 

I'm tired of that argument. "Dale Earnhardt didn't die from a car crash, he died from a skull fracture and brain bleed." Right. 

Exactly, just like HIV/AIDS isn't typically what kills people. It weakens the immune system to the point that "opportunistic infections" kill the person, that a healthy person would survive. 

Just because somebody gets shot right in the heart and point blank range does not mean that high blood pressure was a contributing factor to his death. 

I had covid in March, which left resulting pulmonary embolisms, which caused me to have to have emergency heart surgery the end of July. Had I not survived that surgery or not had that surgery, covid would have, and rightfully so, been the cause of death. 

James Brady's cause of death was homicide roughly 2 decades after he suffered his GSW. Complications resulting from a primary cause, are still due to a primary cause. If you feel otherwise, once we're through all of this as a society, go sit in civil court for a day and listen to cases. You'll likely hear several million dollars worth of consideration. 

Marjorie Suddard said:

Sorry, that's just how the math works.

MMMust...RRResit...MMMathing the BBBerk out of TTThis.

To put it politerly, I'm "skeptical" of some of the math / logic I've seen on this thread.

Thank you Marjorie. 

I'm out. Y'all tell each other how bad the other guy is without me. 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Subscriber-unavailabile said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

I understand what your saying. But peanuts kill people too.

Exactly!  And once you discover that they are deadly for your best friend, do you intentionally booby trap his cupcake with peanut butter?  Do you serve him dinner without checking the labels to make sure it doesn't contain peanuts?

No one is intentionally putting peanuts in his cupcake, we are just expecting the guy that is allergic to look out for himself, not demand we all stop eating peanuts. It's why the "do you wear seatbelts" question is so dumb, if we get into a wreck and I chose to not wear a seat belt, that's on me, it won't affect your injuries at all. 
 

So just to recap, on this page we're at 2 who wouldn't put up blackout curtains  during the blitz, and 4 who would. Sad, but at 2/3 compliance, we are close to the 70% needed for herd immunity  in a vaccination program. Guess that's good, though it doesn't account for those who cannot get the vaccine--including, at this point, children. But screw them, they're weak, amiright?

Margie

I just got an email from the Department of Public Health.

I expected it to be a notification that I am eligible to get the vaccine.

I didn't expect this:

"Dear Connecticut Licensed Health Care Professional,

The Department of Public Health is contacting you because your licensure category is among a group that is eligible for training and temporary authorization to administer COVID-19 vaccines as part of Connecticut’s mass vaccination efforts during the pandemic."

In reply to Marjorie Suddard :

I see more than 2 that would put up black out curtains, you must be assuming wrong.

bobzilla said:

I'm out. Y'all tell each other how bad the other guy is without me. 

I don't think you're bad, I just think you have a paradyne that treats COVID differently than other situations that create the same conflict of interests between individual rights and sociatial obligation.

In my mind, this has been litigated since the inception of our country and the consensus can be seen in a myriad of laws...you can't smoke on a commercial flight...you can't drive drunk on a public road...you can't dump toxic material in a river...etc., etc., etc.

In every case, we're trying to strike an optimal balance between personal freedom and good citiznship.  To me, it appears that applying historical norms coming from hundreds of years and thousands of laws indicates that COVID is a case where it's appropriate to make some infriengements on personal rights.

I mean, we've got 290K dead Americans and counting so this isn't a theretical problem, it's a real problem...this isn't a possible future problem, it's a right now problem.

Again, I don't think you're bad, I just think you're mistaken in treating COVID differently than the plethera of other situations I consider to be comperable.  

Steve_Jones said:

 

No one is intentionally putting peanuts in his cupcake, we are just expecting the guy that is allergic to look out for himself, not demand we all stop eating peanuts.  It's why the "do you wear seatbelts" question is so dumb, if we get into a wreck and I chose to not wear a seat belt, that's on me, it won't affect your injuries at all. 

You are correct.  The proper analogy is not "putting peanuts in his food" which is clearly intentional, it's more analogous to someone who is severely allergic to peanuts (for purposes of transmission NOT affect) and their friend not giving a care if they had been around (eaten, touched etc) peanuts before they are close to them.

(just to be clear, people severely allergic to peanuts can have reactions to extremely small amounts of peanut)

The seatbelt analogy should be more along the lines of: I am not hurting anyone if I drive in the back seat of your car with a heavy toolbox in my lap.  In the unlikely event of a crash, there may be dire consequences for others in the car because of that decision.

It does point out one of the primary issue with these sorts of conversation... wildly overstating your point.  (Which only serves to hurt your point because it makes your argument easy to dismiss)

In reply to Steve_Jones :

Oops, transposed "would" and "would not." Post fixed, but still plenty depressed here by this thread.

Marjorie Suddard said:

So just to recap, on this page we're at 2 who would put up blackout curtains  during the blitz, and 4 who would not. Sad, but at 2/3 compliance, we are close to the 70% needed for herd immunity  in a vaccination program. Guess that's good, though it doesn't account for those who cannot get the vaccine--including, at this point, children. But screw them, they're weak, amiright?

Margie

Blackout curtains are a great analogy. 

I'm in. 

Marjorie Suddard said:

In reply to Steve_Jones :

Oops, transposed "would" and "would not." Post fixed, but still plenty depressed here by this thread.

It is depressing. Too many people want to be "right" no matter what "side" they're on, when there shouldn't be sides at all. 

Every other day my mother's nursing home calls me to tell me another resident or employee has been infected. The call yesterday was especially disturbing because the guy calling me sounded panicked. I am just praying that her nursing home gets the vaccine before she gets infected. They are expecting it next week. Mom is 90 years old, a diabetic, has had heart surgery twice and is about as weak as any human can be. I guess she is expendable. 

I am over 60 and have high blood pressure. Probably a higher risk than most people if I do get infected. A younger secretary in my office was sent home two weeks ago after testing positive. I guess I am expendable too. Who knows. Mrs. Snowdoggie is beside herself not wanting me to go anywhere. 

The funeral homes and morgues in Fort Worth about 15 miles away from me are full, so they are bringing in a bunch of refrigerated 18 wheeler type trailers in anticipation of all the bodies they will not have storage for in the next 6 to 8 weeks. 

Let me know when it's time to panic. Until then, I will just be hiding out. 

UPDATE: Nursing home just called. Three more employees tested positive. Mom tested negative. 

In reply to Woody (Forum Supportum) :

I'm assuming that they're going with the Pfizer at this point. I had my second round of the Moderna earlier this week and already had a increased antibody response after the first round, which wasn't expected as I still have residual antibodies from March, which have been at a lower but stable level since September. 

My dad is getting his first dose on the 29th as a direct result of me being part of the clinical. I'd go through everything a second time knowing that's a direct result. I honestly didn't see a way that he was going to be able to make it through the winter and now we just need to keep him safe for one more month. It's humbling and I'm fortunate that things have worked out as they have so far. 

In reply to Marjorie Suddard :

It's divisive in the extreme to accuse those of us who are skeptical of a rushed medicine of being heartless or uncaring.
I have a close friend down the street who is extremely at risk and unable to be vaccinated. I haven't seen him any closer than across the street for nearly a year. My wife and I have been good friends with him and his wife for nearly a decade. His daughter is the same age as mine and they cannot play together. I have a grandfather I cannot visit, and my mother's parents who live close by are well past their sell-by dates. All of this and I'd still rather stay distant and wear a mask than trust that whatever this new medicine is to be effective and safe. My hesitation is not because I don't care about others, nor is it because I enjoy being defiant. 

Marjorie Suddard said:

In reply to Steve_Jones :

Oops, transposed "would" and "would not." Post fixed, but still plenty depressed here by this thread.

Plenty to be depressed about. The fact that depression and al the other mental issues that the current procedures are exacerbating are going to lead to worse consequences. The way people have gotten so binary and unable to see anything other than black and white is troublesome. 

In reply to bobzilla :

When I had cancer, it definitely caused depression to develop during the course of treatment. I didn't ignore or suspend treatment because it caused depression. You treat them both, you don't ignore the one illness that's causing the mental health issue. Allowing the issue that's causing the exasperation of the mental health difficulties, full allow that issue to persist and get worse, which will in turn increase the severity of the mental health concerns. Ignoring a health issue doesn't make it go away. You have to treat it head on, regardless of what it is. 

I'm a teacher, and I'm teaching face to face classes.  I will take it ASAP

In reply to bobzilla :

If I send you a message via the messenger does it get to a good email for you? I'd like to reach out to you with regards to something and I'd rather not do it publicly. What I will do publicly though is to thank you for being open about what you're dealing with and that you're struggling. It sucks, but you reach out to us, or at least inform us because you, for the most part, trust and have confidence in us, so thank you for that. 

I just want to say sorry for offending anybody.And I'm truly sorry for anyone that lost someone, it really does berkeleying suck.

I'm just expressing how I feel, my opinions  and my interactions I'm experiencing with people.