Dental plans

For decades I had Delta Dental. Twice a year we’d go to our local dentist for a teeth cleaning examination and X-rays. 

 Out dentist would fix our teeth, fillings etc. and it was covered. Only complex jobs like a partial or crowns etc weren’t covered completely. 

Then they got greedy and paid the dentist less and less until he could no longer afford to accept Delta Dental. 

At that point they started their own clinics staffed by 3rd world dentists who did really bad work but charged a real premium for it.  A-cavity in one tooth cost me $545.00  and in doing it they cracked two other teeth. 

Recently I started shopping for a new dental plan. 

Have you had good or bad experience with yours? Tell me about it. What does it cost? Who accepts it?  What are the annual limits?  Etc

A friend turned me onto something that starts with an A. Avis, Avid, something like that. Anyway, it was $150/year, and that was the only fee he had to pay. 

He wound up getting a lot of oral surgery done, and it didn't cost him a dime over the annual fee. Pretty nice. I know I've recommended it to people here before I just can't remember the name right now. 

For basic stuff like cleanings and x rays, I go to the local community college and volunteer to let the students work on me. For more in depth work, I go to a "dentist while you sleep" place and pay cash. The work is super cheap because for paying cash they charge the Medicare prices, the expensive part is the sedation. When I got my wisdom teeth pulled along with a broken molar, it was $40/tooth extracted and $500 to be put under. 

I have Met Dental and it's fine.  Pretty standard employer offered stuff:  cleanings and fillings are free, bigger stuff is covered less the more expensive it is (crown is 50%).

A dentist once told me dental insurance is closer to a coupon book than real insurance.  That seems accurate.

Oh boy.  I don't think its wise for me to weigh in here, but as a dentist, here goes.  This is based on my 20 years of experience as a dentist.  The old adage of "You get what you pay for" is true here, in spades.  Cheap out on your peanut butter, don't cheap out on your health care. 

Any plan that costs $150 a year isn't worth the paper its printed on.  Letting students work on you is a feel good scenario until you think about the fact they have zero experience and the likelihood the work is substandard is very, very high.

I question the licensure status of anyone who removes a wisdom tooth for $40.  Medicare doesn't cover dental procedures.  At all.  So there's no Medicare fee schedule for dental procedures.  $500 for IV sedation is the standard cash price for it, they're not making any money on the sedation there.

Bottom line, if you're not getting insurance subsidized by your employer, it's not worth getting dental insurance at all.  You'll end up paying quite a bit more in annual premium then you'll get out in benefit.  That's because dental insurance isn't insurance at all, it's a defined benefit plan.  They're going to pay a certain percentage of certain procedures up to a set amount per year, which is really low, like $1000-1500.  Anything over and above that is on your dime, along with the co-pays.

So, if you're a normal person who's taking care of himself, you really only need a few cleanings a year.  That'll cost you $20 a month.  Set up a HSA(Health Savings Account) and then you get to pay with pre-tax dollars and can also use the account for other medical providers as well.   The most expensive filling in my office doesn't cost anywhere near $550.  Also pretty much impossible to crack adjacent teeth putting in a filling...

In reply to docwyte :

3 Rivers dental starter fee schedule

It's been 7 years since I was there, but they have extractions starting at $65 now. Maybe Medicare wasn't the right word, welfare insurance? I don't remember names specifically, but when he showed me on the monitor the prices ranged from what I paid to over $300 per tooth depending on the insurance carrier. 

While I would much prefer to go to a proper dentist, I can't afford it. I have bad teeth, and I didn't take good care of them when I was younger, so I'm starting to pay for it now. 

How much damage can the students do brushing, flossing, and x rays though? I guess x-ray has some risk to it, but if they aren't drilling or probing can they make things worse?

I hope I didn't come across as argumentative, I'd actually like to hear more of your thoughts on the subject as someone who works in the field. This has just been my experience. 

The plan thing my buddy signed up for was AVIA. I'm going to go googling now, I'm just posting so I don't lose what I've already written out.  

Edit: Avia is a dental discount plan. Not insurance or anything like that. Supposedly they can supplement existing insurance if you have it. I haven't personally done it, but damn if they didn't save Mike a E36 M3load when he had his mouth rearranged. 

We have Guardian as an optional buy in, and the people I know who have it seem to like it. My dentist has a plan where you pay $200/year for 2 cleanings/1 set of x-rays, and that costs pretty much the same as the Guardian plan. I need a crown and that is significantly more expensive, but I have money put aside specifically for stuff like this so it's not a huge deal. I'm not sure how much of it Guardian would've covered.

Forget the insurance. Ask for a cash discount.

Guardian thru my employer works pretty well for us.  Family coverage is $31 x 26 per year, but we get full coverage on two exams and cleanings per year with flouride and (as needed) sealants.  Other procedures are 80% covered up to some $$ limit per year that we have never met (so I am not sure what it is off hand).  Orthodontia coverage sux though, at $1k lifetime per person.  Which is not much.

Lisa needs braces!

docwyte said:

Bottom line, if you're not getting insurance subsidized by your employer, it's not worth getting dental insurance at all.  You'll end up paying quite a bit more in annual premium then you'll get out in benefit.  That's because dental insurance isn't insurance at all, it's a defined benefit plan.  They're going to pay a certain percentage of certain procedures up to a set amount per year, which is really low, like $1000-1500.  Anything over and above that is on your dime, along with the co-pays.

Agree!!   When i retired in 1994 I had the option to continue my dental insurance but I would have had to pay for it.  I asked my dentist and he felt the same as docwyte.   So I dropped  the insurance and just pay for my dental expanses.

Since then I have kept track of what i have actually spent vs. what I would have had to pay for the insurance premium and non covered work.  That is easy to do since my ex-employer sends out the dental plan info every year along with the health insurance info.

Over time since i retired I am ahead of the game by ~$5k.  I have had twice a year cleaning, a few fillings, 2 crowns and a root canal.  Because I pay cash the dentist gives me a 5% discount and since I turned 65 (retired at 51) another 10% senior citizens discount on top.

I'm retired and have a minimal dental plan. It costs me a few bucks for coverage each month, but I don't need a lot of work. So I'm fine with what I have.

docwyte said:

Oh boy.  I don't think its wise for me to weigh in here, but as a dentist, here goes.  This is based on my 20 years of experience as a dentist.  The old adage of "You get what you pay for" is true here, in spades.  Cheap out on your peanut butter, don't cheap out on your health care. 

Any plan that costs $150 a year isn't worth the paper its printed on.  Letting students work on you is a feel good scenario until you think about the fact they have zero experience and the likelihood the work is substandard is very, very high.

I question the licensure status of anyone who removes a wisdom tooth for $40.  Medicare doesn't cover dental procedures.  At all.  So there's no Medicare fee schedule for dental procedures.  $500 for IV sedation is the standard cash price for it, they're not making any money on the sedation there.

Bottom line, if you're not getting insurance subsidized by your employer, it's not worth getting dental insurance at all.  You'll end up paying quite a bit more in annual premium then you'll get out in benefit.  That's because dental insurance isn't insurance at all, it's a defined benefit plan.  They're going to pay a certain percentage of certain procedures up to a set amount per year, which is really low, like $1000-1500.  Anything over and above that is on your dime, along with the co-pays.

So, if you're a normal person who's taking care of himself, you really only need a few cleanings a year.  That'll cost you $20 a month.  Set up a HSA(Health Savings Account) and then you get to pay with pre-tax dollars and can also use the account for other medical providers as well.   The most expensive filling in my office doesn't cost anywhere near $550.  Also pretty much impossible to crack adjacent teeth putting in a filling...

I’m afraid I’m going to take your advice.  It’s logical and painful at the same time, just what I expect from a good dentist  ( insert smiley face here)  

The truth is I put every single cavity in my mouth myself.  Looking to cheap out never works because the cheapest thing you can do to a tooth is pull it and pretty soon you’re toothless or buying artificial  teeth. 

I trust my local dentist. When I followed my dental plan they not only ruined two  teeth  but gave me such pain and anxiety that ever since I’ve had to medicate myself to go.  

Yes she actually cracked one tooth.and chipped the other when she over tightened the band holding the filling in place and then banged  a tool on the adjacent tooth. 

I’m not anti immigrant and foolishly assumed that a licensed dentist would be skilled enough to do decent work.  Not true!  My dental plans third world dentists  did the following 

over tightened a band causing both sides of an otherwise solid tooth to crack

dropped an instrument  and chipped a tooth 

cracked an adjacent tooth vertically so bad during an extraction that that tooth had to be pulled as well 

finally the pain I had to endure during those procedures cause me so much anxiety that now to go  I have to heavily sedated myself 

on top of the monthly premium  I paid  the cost of all that work was about the same as if I’d gone to my local dentist in the first place.