DIY Hydrogen Generators ?

IIRC, there was a guy who developed a hydrogen adsorption storage system which used a powdered metal substrate. It readily adsorbed hydrogen and would give it back off when heated. The article I read (Popular Science?) showed a Gremlin he had modified to run off of hydrogen, one picture in the article was of him collecting the water vapor exhaust and drinking it. I think this is the same car: http://www.engineer.ucla.edu/history/hydrocar.html

If you think about it, that would probably be the best compromise: store the hydrogen on the substrate and use the waste exhaust heat to release the hydrogen. It would sure beat trying to carry around a huge quantity of water and using inefficient methods to try to 'crack' the H2 off in meaningful quantities.

No, that system still isn't effective. You still need to split the water at some point. You just use electrical power to do that.

To the best of my knowledge, electrolysis and storing hydrogen to combust later, is not as efficient as a battery and an electric motor.

Basically, this has all of the disadvantages of a plug-in electric (except maybe waste batteries), and none of the advantages.

I was looking at it as being more workable than trying to build a ginormous mobile hydrogen 'separator', carrying the water neccessary and then generating enough electricity onboard to make enough hydrogen to make a difference.

A stationary hydrogen 'separator' (I think that's a better description than 'generator') running off of house current being used to 'fill' (for lack of a better term) a hydrogen adsorption tank means you leave a lot of heavy and bulky equipment at home.

Jensenman wrote: I was looking at it as being more workable than trying to build a ginormous mobile hydrogen 'separator', carrying the water neccessary and then generating enough electricity onboard to make enough hydrogen to make a difference. A stationary hydrogen 'separator' (I think that's a better description than 'generator') running off of house current being used to 'fill' (for lack of a better term) a hydrogen adsorption tank means you leave a lot of heavy and bulky equipment at home.

That makes a lot more sense and doesn't break any laws of physics. You just have to watch out for spending more on your hydrogen than on gasoline.

Matt:

I really think you are missing what we are talking about. Didn't Jensenman just describe the exact same thing I did earlier??

There isn't any gas used to generated the hydrogen, none is stored.

The solid storing of hydrogen has been around a while. One company (I forget, Ford?) envisioned "fill stations" where you swapped out your solid cartridges depleted of hydrogen for "full" ones. The hydrogen would be coaxed out of the solid stuff and burned in a fuel cell.

Dr. Hess wrote: The solid storing of hydrogen has been around a while. One company (I forget, Ford?) envisioned "fill stations" where you swapped out your solid cartridges depleted of hydrogen for "full" ones. The hydrogen would be coaxed out of the solid stuff and burned in a fuel cell.

Yup. I recall talking with someone who said Chrysler was developing the same thing. The "solid stuff" was essentially Borax or an equivalent.

SVreX wrote: Matt: I really think you are missing what we are talking about. Didn't Jensenman just describe the exact same thing I did earlier?? There isn't any gas used to generated the hydrogen, none is stored.

Jensenman's post I replied to was talking about generating the hydrogen at home and storing it, not trying to generate it on the car with alternator current.

Yeah, I was talking about simplifying the onboard stuff. Generate and store the H2 (or H) at home, then 'refill' the substrate tank each evening.

No, it probably would not be as cheap as drilling for oil, but it would be renewable.

Jensenman wrote: Yeah, I was talking about simplifying the onboard stuff. Generate and store the H2 (or H) at home, then 'refill' the substrate tank each evening. No, it probably would not be as cheap as drilling for oil, but it would be renewable.

That all depends on what power source your local electrical plant runs on.

I generate TONs of on board methane... Now if I can plumb it to the tail pipe.. I can blast a flame into the a%$# tailgatin me

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/07/water4gas.html

Salanis wrote:

Jensenman wrote: Yeah, I was talking about simplifying the onboard stuff. Generate and store the H2 (or H) at home, then 'refill' the substrate tank each evening. No, it probably would not be as cheap as drilling for oil, but it would be renewable.

That all depends on what power source your local electrical plant runs on.

Picky, picky. You are right, if it's from fossil all you are doing is moving the source of pollution generation. That's the reason I support nuke and hydro electric plants and the phase out of fossil plants.

You would not believe how much hydrogen is in simple distilled water. The problem is that distilled water is pure and will not conduct electricity, so an electrolite must be added. Then you add 12 volts of dc electricity and pipe the gas to the the air intake. You do not pour water into the gas tank! I burn 3 to 4 gallons of water on a trip from Minnesota to California and return in my semi. I get about .75 mpg from the hydrogen and 4.75 from the diesel. All the talk about this chemical formulas and perpetual energy machines is funny. The hydrogen is used as it is made, so no storage facility is necessary. Those wonderful inventors who want us to use hydrogen actually want to sell you the hydrogen in a tank, and then it will be used to generate electricity, which in turn would be used to power something, car or ?????. The system I use takes their little game out of the mix. Not only do I convert a .92 gallon of distilled water to about 75.00 of fuel, I also save fuel taxes as I use less diesel, and my Detroit series 60 burns clean. The oil samples are good, oil get changed every 40,000 miles or so. Now, the secret is using the materials inside the generator that will stand up to the abuse the truck dishes out. Bill and Carl have it figured out.785-871-0063 geronimo in the big red truck...

geronimo wrote: You would not believe how much hydrogen is in simple distilled water.

It's about 1/9 hydrogen by weight. You would need 2.2 gallons to get the equivalent of 1 gallon of gasoline. Trouble is if your source of power for separating it is a gasoline engine, you'd need at least 3.25 gallons of gasoline (and that is a low estimate) to separate that 1 gallon equivalent.

Not only do I convert a .92 gallon of distilled water to about 75.00 of fuel...

if (and that's a very big if - the forum software wouldn't let me display the if big enough) your numbers about your gas mileage are correct, it would be more accurate to say you've burned your actual fuel a bit more efficiently. It is possible that hydrogen may somehow make the engine more efficient without acting primarily as a fuel. The amount of hydrogen you would have after separating 1 gallon of water contains less chemical energy on its own than one gallon of diesel fuel.

geronimo wrote: You would not believe how much hydrogen is in simple distilled water. The problem is that distilled water is pure and will not conduct electricity, so an electrolite must be added. Then you add 12 volts of dc electricity and pipe the gas to the the air intake. You do not pour water into the gas tank! I burn 3 to 4 gallons of water on a trip from Minnesota to California and return in my semi. I get about .75 mpg from the hydrogen and 4.75 from the diesel. All the talk about this chemical formulas and perpetual energy machines is funny. The hydrogen is used as it is made, so no storage facility is necessary. Those wonderful inventors who want us to use hydrogen actually want to sell you the hydrogen in a tank, and then it will be used to generate electricity, which in turn would be used to power something, car or ?????. The system I use takes their little game out of the mix. Not only do I convert a .92 gallon of distilled water to about 75.00 of fuel, I also save fuel taxes as I use less diesel, and my Detroit series 60 burns clean. The oil samples are good, oil get changed every 40,000 miles or so. Now, the secret is using the materials inside the generator that will stand up to the abuse the truck dishes out. Bill and Carl have it figured out.785-871-0063 geronimo in the big red truck...

Methinks Geronimo is paddling a big ol' canoe.

I have heard that there are systems that have been developed specifically for long-haul trucks that recapture some energy lost through electrolysis.

My understanding is that these are complex systems, nothing like the snake-oil-extractors being peddled on teh interwebs, and that they cost in the neighborhood of $15k.

They become practical for long haul truckers because they drive so many freeway miles at constant speed.

As for storage... if he's responding to my comments, I was being technical in stating that energy is stored in the hydrogen bonds and are not burned "immediately" (they store the energy for seconds, at least), not that hydrogen is being stored.

One fact is simple and direct, with hydrogen or Browns Gas I get 5.75 mpg, without less than 5 mpg. I don't use snake oil, I only can relate to what the miles and gallons tally up to. www.hydrofuelmax.com Bill has a dodge diesel pickup, with a 5.9 cummins engine. Browns gas off to browns gas on the mileage differs by 5 miles per gallon. Simple, effective and cost saving solution to fuel savings. This is not a home-styled water 4 fuel water bottle program that so many are peddling, this device is manufactured to supply gas to lower fuel consumption. Their website is not as detailed as the product. The cost is 1500 not 15000. One device made in canada costs 10,000, one driver took the Canadian product off and added Bill & Carl's and is surprised at the difference. Made in North Central Kansas by two guys that care. Later. I plan to add the second one to my truck, but I'll have to increase the amps of the alternator first, the new alternator will take a little more energy, but the browns gas will make that energy up, plus save more diesel fuel.

I'm just a Minnesota truck operator, but Bill tells me there is 1200 liters of hydrogen in each gallon of distilled water. I interested to see if you software program can prove or disprove it.

This thread was frustrating as heck to read, as a recent engr grad. My 2 cents: there's no way for it to work. Go check your tire pressures, take the crap out of your trunk, slow down, and be content.

MadScientistMatt wrote:

SVreX wrote: Matt: I really think you are missing what we are talking about. Didn't Jensenman just describe the exact same thing I did earlier?? There isn't any gas used to generated the hydrogen, none is stored.

Jensenman's post I replied to was talking about generating the hydrogen at home and storing it, not trying to generate it on the car with alternator current.

Missed that. My apologies.

ignorant wrote: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/07/water4gas.html

Good link, Ignorant. Thanks.

As far as cars that run on gasoline, I agree with the results, because the average guy cannot program the car's computer to inject less gasoline when the oxygen sensor detects more oxygen in the exhaust, so it thinks the engine is starved for fuel and increases the gas to air ratio. I'm sorry your recent engineering education is contrary to this info. The water4fuel info is flawed, Bill & Carl have went further into this with different material and better technology. I am not going to change anyone's opinion that is set against it not working. It works on my truck and many many others.

please add into your equation that the electrolisis that is created by the presence of 33 amps of dc power I use 3 to 5 gallons of water on a 5000 mile trip.

geronimo wrote: please add into your equation that the electrolisis that is created by the presence of 33 amps of dc power I use 3 to 5 gallons of water on a 5000 mile trip.

Hiawatha's canoe could float in 5 gallons of water.