pinchvalve
pinchvalve GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/10/17 3:27 p.m.

Saw these a lot when I was in Germany and really like the idea. Why fight cracks and weeds in the driveway? Just let it grow and mow it occasionally.

My issue is water. My driveway slopes towards my house, with a large drain at the base. The cement funnels water towards the house and if the drain clogs, we flood. This seems like it might help by channeling water into the ground and away from the drain. But it might also just increase the water table around my house and cause flooding elsewhere.

Anyone ever use this stuff?

spitfirebill
spitfirebill MegaDork
1/10/17 3:31 p.m.

Never used, them, but would love to. I understand they are expensive because they are the latest "green" stuff.

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
1/10/17 3:39 p.m.

I haven't used them, but have considered them for the space between the back driveway and screen porch entrance. Concrete isn't really an option because of drainage patterns, but it gets a little soft after a hard rain.

I'll be watching this with interest.

captdownshift
captdownshift GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/10/17 3:46 p.m.

flag stone, or granite slab (rough side up) laid upon decomposed granite with top soil as the filler between and a tall fescue or zoscia grass in the areas between the stone. The soil will drain exceptionally well with the decomposed granite underneath, so you'll need to water it if it doesn't rain for more then 5 days once mature, but for water absorption and drainage it will be tough to beat.

ManhattanM (fka NY535iManual)
ManhattanM (fka NY535iManual) Reader
1/10/17 4:00 p.m.

How cold/snowy are your winters? It seems like the stuff in the picture might tend to have snow accumulate in the openings, which can't really be shoveled out. Then with time and compaction this would turn into ice and cause traction problems and displace the zigzags. Watching with interest, as our asphalt driveway is crumbling daily after probably 15 winters and really needs to be redone or replaced.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/10/17 4:01 p.m.

This isn't all that new, I remember seeing it a lot in... Australia? Fiji? Tonga? about 30 years ago. I always liked the idea.

I wouldn't worry about the drainage aspect unless you were planning on paving the entire lawn.

NOHOME
NOHOME PowerDork
1/10/17 4:25 p.m.

I don't know what you are on about. We banned Round-up here in Canada and pretty much all interlocking driveways look that way. I know mine does!

SkinnyG
SkinnyG Dork
1/10/17 5:03 p.m.

This intrigues me.

My workshop is finished, but I need to do the driveway up to it this spring. The driveway may or may not be encroaching on my septic field.

EvanB
EvanB GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
1/10/17 5:07 p.m.

I haven't used them but I love the look and want to find something to do with them. I am planning on a parking area behind the garage so I may use them at some point if I can justify the expense.

DeadSkunk
DeadSkunk UberDork
1/11/17 8:27 p.m.
NOHOME wrote: I don't know what you are on about. We banned Round-up here in Canada and pretty much all interlocking driveways look that way. I know mine does!

Just spray the driveway with vinegar. It's pretty effective.

oldopelguy
oldopelguy UltraDork
1/12/17 12:38 a.m.

I priced those for my old house and at the time the materials were almost twice the cost of a 5.5" thick poured concrete drive. Labor was similar in price for both options.

Advan046
Advan046 SuperDork
1/12/17 6:30 a.m.

The photo shows what my part of the facility management world would call interlocking pavers with grass insets. Permeable pavers are a much different system that provides 100% coverage of the soil but are porous such that water passes through them not around them as in most paver systems.

Both systems would work well only if you do the appropriate under ground support systems to control water flow. As you see in the photo you posted there is a grate for some type of drain for when the soil surfaces become saturated. These types of systems are generally a good idea if you plan to really invest in your home and are ready for a different type of maintenance and repair. The under ground system can even track water away from your house depending on your site grading. You will have to replace pavers now and then as well as reseed. If you do a proper sub surface then the pavers shouldn't move much over the years. To make them easier for snowing climates you may have to get more costly. For instance one installation took advantage of an old unused well to create a geothermal "heating" system running under the pavers that melted the snow during the winter season at an increased rate. They used a snow brush rather than plow for larger snow falls.

spitfirebill
spitfirebill UltimaDork
1/12/17 6:58 a.m.

Some communities are regulating impermeable surfaces. You will be seeing more and more of the permeable pavers.

Brian
Brian MegaDork
1/12/17 6:30 p.m.

I first noticed those in Woodbury on TWD. I like the idea.

Mike
Mike GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
1/12/17 7:02 p.m.

For whatever it's worth, a fairly high traffic parking lot here has a field of them surrounded by normal concrete for some reason. It's driving lane and parking area, and it's striped. They were old when I moved here the first time in the early aughts, and they still look the same today. They seem to hold up, but the voids aren't all particularly full, making it a little awkward for walking.

Hal
Hal UltraDork
1/13/17 8:58 p.m.

One of the new shopping centers around here has the parking lot paved with something I assume is permeable concrete. It is a rather rough surface and they have signs that prohibit sealing and some other stuff. Since the parking lot slopes down to a creek I guess that there is some type of system that directs the water there

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/12/17 11:02 a.m.
spitfirebill wrote: Never sued, them, but would love to. I understand they are expensive because they are the latest "green" stuff.

By me, a lot of people DIY them by putting cinderblocks in the ground with the holes vertical.

RevRico
RevRico SuperDork
4/12/17 11:11 a.m.
Hal wrote: One of the new shopping centers around here has the parking lot paved with something I assume is permeable concrete. It is a rather rough surface and they have signs that prohibit sealing and some other stuff. Since the parking lot slopes down to a creek I guess that there is some type of system that directs the water there

Is it this stuff by chance? Concrete "sponge" https://youtu.be/LWiq0NbJmaw

The0retical
The0retical SuperDork
4/12/17 11:43 a.m.

Since this floated back up to the top.

Permeable pavers look to be about three bucks a square foot +/- a couple cents. Cheaper than asphalt.

I was debating trying a gravel grid for areas of my driveway that have erosion issues. Anyone have any experience? They appear to be less expensive per square foot than the turfstone.

GorillaDatsun
GorillaDatsun None
4/22/20 2:10 p.m.
The0retical said:

Since this floated back up to the top.

Permeable pavers look to be about three bucks a square foot +/- a couple cents. Cheaper than asphalt.

I was debating trying a gravel grid for areas of my driveway that have erosion issues. Anyone have any experience? They appear to be less expensive per square foot than the turfstone.

I've used these before. I helped a neighbor friend install the black plastic grid variety of these ~7-8 years back. He chose these as they were more manageable to lift and maneuver than the turfstone concrete kind, at least that was the rationale at the time. To help with erosion we put down a layer of driveway fabric underneath the pavers to help drainage and prevent erosion. here is the kind of stuff we used, it came in black plastic honeycomb rolls. https://www.landscapediscount.com/grass-pavers-s/1858.htm

pilotbraden
pilotbraden UltraDork
4/22/20 8:12 p.m.

There is a small office building in Flint Michigan  that installed this type in the late 70s or early  80s. It looks  the same  as when it was installed,  at least when I drive by.  I have never looked any closer. 

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia Dork
4/22/20 8:18 p.m.

I always liked these in Germany , large carparks would have these and from a distance looked like a green field :)  

and they always seemed to drain pretty well , 

I wonder if there is a German website that shows the "proper" way to install them ?

Driven5
Driven5 UltraDork
8/29/20 12:17 a.m.

In reply to perthpianoremovals :

Do you also remove Canoes?

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
8/29/20 5:04 a.m.

In reply to Driven5 :

In 1903 the main road into Minneapolis from the west had twice fired paving bricks laid  on top of a sand base. In 1986 they scooped those bricks up and loaded them into big dump trucks to be hauled of up north to be disposed of. 
Round trip took over 2 hours and cost the drivers $100 a load to dump. I talked to a couple drivers and offered my driveway  to dispose of the bricks. Round trip took less than an hour and I'd accept all they had free. Plus to sweeten the deal I offered a case of beer to each driver. My neighbor wanted in on the deal and offered to pay for the beer. I got 22 tandem dump truck loads my neighbor 8. 
It took me all summer of nights and weekends to level the sand and stack 15,300 bricks. My neighbor took almost as long to build the walkway he wanted but when he sold the house there was still about 4 loads left piled up and the new owners didn't like the look. So the next summer I moved all those bricks over to my yard and put in a sidewalk down to the lake . A 1/2 driveway from the boat house doors towards the lake and retaining wall along the south side of my property.  I wanted to finish the driveway to the lake but by then the popularity had driven the price of those bricks up to $5.00 each and I'd need over 8000 more bricks 

it's dark out right now but tomorrow I'll take pictures. They do a nice job of absorbing rainfall and yes in the winter they can be snow plowed 

Sorry for the scaffolding and cars. I'm painting the trim on my house. Er, I'm not you don't want me anywhere near paint.  I get more on me and the surrounding area  than where it's supposed to go. 

BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter)
BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/29/20 8:26 a.m.
californiamilleghia said:

I always liked these in Germany , large carparks would have these and from a distance looked like a green field :)  

and they always seemed to drain pretty well , 

I wonder if there is a German website that shows the "proper" way to install them ?

I found a quick video for one of the newer varieties:

Similar principle, but using a thinner plastic grid than what is effectively pavers with holes in them.

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