First time dealing with a Paypal dispute, advice please?

So I've used Paypal for 20+ years now, buying and selling.  I've never had a buyer file a dispute with me until now.  A few months ago I sold a VW VR6 supercharger kit, it was used and I tried to represent it as honestly as I could.  The buyer was unhappy when I first dropped the box off at the UPS Store, so I offered to go pick it up before it even shipped out and refund all his money.  He declined.  Then once he got the supercharger he started to nit pick it, so I again offered to send him a shipping label and give him a full refund.  He declined again.  He was still nit picking at it so I sent him a message saying that the kit was sold as is, no warranty.  That I'd take the kit back for a full refund but he had to let me know by midnight that evening, otherwise the kit was his and I wouldn't refund him for anything going forward.  I never heard from him so the next morning I reached out to him to tell him the matter was closed.  He responded saying he'd keep the kit.

I then saw that he listed the kit for sale on the FB forums.  I don't know if he actually sold the kit or not.

Yesterday he filed a Paypal dispute for it and wants a partial refund, saying that he had to do some work to the kit to install it.  I asked him to send me a picture if it on his car to show me that he didn't sell it, he hasn't done that.

I called Paypal to ask them about this, what I'm worried about is he's sold the kit and now is pursueing me for more money on top of that.  They told me that unless he can return the kit they won't give him a full refund.

What do all you think about this?  What would you do here?  Advice please?

That stinks.  I would do a couple things to create a paper trail for yourself.  

On the paypal dispute site you have the option to add text and links.  Ensure the full story and all backup info you have is on their as I find that often multiple paypal folks end up supporting it so you want to cover all efforts you have made with the buyer to make it crystal clear.

Folks like this tend to leave a long trail of mayhem on the forums they inhabit.  Do some hunting on the potential sale of the supercharger as that really negates all the issues if you could find it.  Also hunt for other transactions they were involved with.  Once a Berker, always a Berker.

It seems like you are in good shape on the issue and have done everything a good seller would do to please someone.

In reply to docwyte :

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you're screwed.  PayPal always sides with the buyer.

I've lost good money in similar situations selling on flee-bay.

Thanks.  Honestly I don't know where this guy is coming from, it seems like he wants a brand new kit/warranty/support but for a used price.  I'm also confused why he didn't just return it for a full refund after I offered that multiple times. 

In reply to Indy - Guy :

Yeah, that's what I've heard.  Paypal told me that he'd have to return the supercharger for them to issue him a refund.  That if he no longer has it they'd consider the dispute closed and side with me.

Has that been your experience?  Or since you sold through eBay did that change things?

Nothing to offer than sorry to hear - honest and good people like you are hard to find.  experiences like this, I fear, will send the good ones away leaving only questionable people behind. 
 

keep this updated - praying for the best. Seems like you should be able to prove that you are in the right. But who knows what PayPal will say!

My first go around losing money with them, after a similar condition dispute on a used item, the buyer had charges reversed through the credit card company he paid PayPal with.  PayPal pulled all the money from my account.  I got royally screwed.

You wrote:  The buyer was unhappy when I first dropped the box off at the UPS Store, so I offered to go pick it up before it even shipped out and refund all his money.

Was it that he wanted you to send it the cheapest way possible...you know, with no tracking numbers and no signature required?  I wonder if his initial fraud plan was just to say he never got it with you having no way to prove otherwise.  

In reply to jfryjfry :

Right now it's in the "dispute" phase, so the buyer and I have 20 days to try to come to some sort of agreement.  Complicating matters is he paid me in 4 separate transactions, all for one item.  So I've responded to all four exactly the same and asked him what he feels would be a fair resolution. 

If we can't agree, then he can upgrade it and have Paypal step in.

In reply to John Welsh :

No, I'd bought/included the wrong supercharger belt for it and he just flipped out.  So I told him I'd send him the correct belt or go pick up the supercharger and refund him all his money.  He wanted to keep the kit so I sent him the correct belt.  Then once he got the kit he was just picking it apart, so I offered to take it back multiple times.  Once I saw that he was going to be a problem going forward is when I offered him the one last full refund.  Thought this was over and done with until yesterday

John Welsh said:

You wrote:  The buyer was unhappy when I first dropped the box off at the UPS Store, so I offered to go pick it up before it even shipped out and refund all his money.

 

It won't help you this time, so remember for the future.  If you're "Spider Sense" goes off like this at the beginning of the transaction, Stop and get out.  It's never going to magically get better.

Some buyers are either scammers or just unrealistic A-holes.  Avoid both at all costs.

In reply to Indy - Guy :

Yeah, I knew right then I should've just picked it up and refunded him.  I'm really regretting not listening to my gut.    Hopefully he responds to my message on Paypal and something gets worked out.  I guess he can just not respond within the 20 days and then escalate it

Be careful if he ships it back as PayPal goes off the tracking number, anything could be in the box. If he does ship it, video yourself opening the box in case it's not actually the SC in there. 

You have his address. Show up on his doorstep and challenge him to a fight, Randy style.

I have a ton of little doohickeys for obscure Honda Twinstars that would be beneficial to others, but experiences like this make me very reluctant.

Is there an alternative to paypal?

With any luck, his dick falls off.

Bad feeling, but I hope for the best 

In reply to Appleseed :

There's eBay's built in system but they're also pretty anti seller.

There been a few people like this I've sold parts to in the past and now I know how to spot them and refuse to sell to them. This person sounds like one of them. Mind you everything I sell is used. They start out by asking a lot of questions. To the point it's excessive and annoying. Then they start asking questions about condition. Insane details. They usually ask if things are in perfect condition. This is the red flag. Even if you tell them it's not perfect, they still won't settle for anything less than perfect. Day 1 or receiving the part they aren't happy. How dare you sell this part in such poor shape. They almost always won't take money back as a discount. They then file a PayPal complaint for a refund and always win somehow.

I can smell these scummy people coming from a mile away now. I usually tell them this isn't the part for them and they won't stop sending messages. I just leave them on read until they leave me alone.

Between that and the people calling you bad names for parting out a car makes it almost not worth it. Almost. 

People say "PayPal always sides with the buyer" but I have a 100% batting average surviving PayPal disputes as a seller.

Keep records of all of your correspondence before and after the transaction and make sure to keep a cool head when dealing with the PayPal folks.

If he sold the kit then he has nothing to return back to you as PayPal requires. If he tries to trick PayPal by sending back a box of rocks, be ready to show them the dimensions and weight of the package you initially sent.

EDIT: I just saw that he paid you in four separate transactions for one item. That is red flag city. I can't imagine how PayPal would try to deal with that and it will surely complicate the process. Good luck.

Well I responded to him on Paypal and asked him what he felt is fair.  He went on a tirade and never responded to my request.  So I just responded again saying I didn't want to argue, that I did offer him a full refund multiple times and to tell me what he thinks is a fair resolution now.  He said he has the kit on his car, I told him I'd love to see a pic of it.

Appleseed said:

You have his address. Show up on his doorstep and challenge him to a fight, Randy style.

Years ago my kid sold a PlayStation on eBay and the buyer started similar stuff, but refused to send it back. Through a forum I found someone close by that knocked on the door and said he was there to help pack it up and drop it off a UPS, or he could log in and drop the dispute while he waited, his choice. Dispute closed. 

In reply to docwyte :

So in the dispute thread he says it's on the car? No chance he wins. 

In reply to Steve_Jones :

He's claiming it's not as represented/defective because he had to do work to get it to fit

In general I have had good luck with these but I don't know if biz and personal accounts though. 
I am working through one where parts were paid for (invoice) delivered once we had stock in 4 wks (expect 4-6wks std delivery plus covid delays) and signed for at address in paypal. Literally no contact and likely deleted his fb so I can't find old messages. Got a dispute that they weren't delivered (sure) and Paypal sided with me. He disputes his cc charge now and Paypal is dealing with that. I have a local contact to retrieve the parts if needed and if I put a bolo out I can catch them getting installed. Some people suck, its a pita. 

docwyte said:

In reply to Steve_Jones :

He's claiming it's not as represented/defective because he had to do work to get it to fit

I'm not sure but I think he's gotta return it to win. 

In reply to Steve_Jones :

Yes, that's what Paypal told me.  He just responded that he doesn't want to return it for a refund but wants some money back.  I keep asking him how much/what he thinks is fair.