Forum that focuses on quality car audio?

I've been trying to do some research to come up with a good bang for the buck audio setup for the 5 series.

It has tweeters in the doors, 4x6 speakers up front, and 5.25" speakers in the back. It has the stock radio as well, which I would like to retain as long as it doesn't sacrifice quality.

I'm always skeptical of the major car audio brands. They seem to spend more money on plastic stylized grilles than quality components. My previous favorite car audio company was Elemental Designs, but they seem to have gone WAY up in price from when they were a garage startup.

Since I have tweets up front, I think it would be kind of strange to get 2 way 4x6s for the front, but that's all crutchfield carries.

There must be some sites that cater to the pick and choose GRM style of buying as opposed to the "fill my car with best buy speakers and give me adapters for everything so I dont have to think" option.

Thoughts?

See if you can find a forum that focuses on SQ (sound quality). They'll most likely tell you to ditch the 4x6s .

www.diymobileaudio.com

Alternatively... i know there's a few of us that dabble in this sort of thing. I'm an SQ guy on a GRM budget.

Today i went the "ultra cheap bastard" route with the MX6 and managed to scrounge a near-as-makes-no-difference brand new pair of 4" Pioneers for the front, and a near-as-makes-no-difference brand new pair of 6.5" Polk DB651s out of the junkyard.

Total investment? $18.

I'm happy. Will power them with a Punch160 amp i have laying around.

After challenge? CDT components powered by a Polk amp which will draw signal from possibly a tubed output Panasonic.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ www.clubknowledge.com

The ClubKnowledge guys are very helpful, very mathematical, and they know their stuff. They also tend to answer with equal respect regardless of the remediality of the question. The diyaudio forums also have a ton of very knowledgeable dudes, but they sometimes tend to skip over the questions like "what does an amplifier do?"

I'm also a big audio nut, and also very concerned about SQ. Fire away. We'll get you pointed in the right direction.

Taiden wrote: I've been trying to do some research to come up with a good bang for the buck audio setup for the 5 series.

Your first question should be whether or not the factory setup has an external amp. Many bimmers do. Then its a question of if you want to bypass those amps or use them. Using them tends to limit your ability since (regardless of what you give the amps) you'll have the same basic output quality that you did before.

Since I have tweets up front, I think it would be kind of strange to get 2 way 4x6s for the front, but that's all crutchfield carries.

Crutchfield tends to be a bit conservative with what they say "fits." They keep usually limit their recommendations to stuff that is an actual bolt-in. I would personally get some component speakers (4", 4x6, or cut just a wee bit for some 5.25") and use the tweeters to replace the tweets you have. If you don't feel comfortable with custom fittings, you might find a 5-series forum and take a look at someone else's first.

There must be some sites that cater to the pick and choose GRM style of buying as opposed to the "fill my car with best buy speakers and give me adapters for everything so I dont have to think" option. Thoughts?

www.woofersetc.com. They are a liqidation house for a ton of brands. Some are new with a discount, some parts are refurb, and some are just plain cheap. THIS LINK will show you what experts think are good brands and bad brands. I like to look at the "middle of the road" brands and compare specs. There are some real diamonds in there. I've been using MTX subs and Audiobahn subs for a while. They are probably 90% as good as the top brands, but a 40% the price. One of the nice things about woofersetc is that they liquidate factory refurb CDT Audio. Its one of the best best best brands and its often 1/2 off or more.

The first thing I always do is replace the speakers. Do that first. It is pretty much a requirement to replace speakers as part of a complete audio overhaul, so might as well do it first. You might find that its enough to keep you happy. Most factory head units are fine as far as frequency reproduction and sound quality, they just lack the power for true audiophile sound.

Awesome link there Curtis.

Question, why choose two way or three way speakers?

Do 2 way speakers have an embedded filter for the tweeter? If not, wouldn't you notice a good increase in accuracy by getting both the midrange and the tweeter on separate filters?

Any reason to replace the stock speaker wiring if the tested resistance of the wires is low?

The 5's speakers are blowing out on any kind of volume or bass, this is the main reason for replacement, and I figure I should make some educated decisions on what I buy.

A typical 2 way will have a simple 6 db/octave filter for the tweeter, a capacitor usually glued to the back of the tweeter, and nothing on the woofer. Some of the better 2 ways, and component sets have separate crossovers with more elaborate filters, usually a 12 db for the tweeter, and a 6 db for the woofer. I can't think of any reason to use a commercially available 3 way in a car. With modern drivers, a 2 way is all you should ever need, and trying to produce quality sound with a 1 1/2" midrange, and tiny little tweeter, all packaged together over a small woofer may be possible, but I know of no manufacturer doing it.

So the rears appear to have both the 5.25" speakers and also a tweeter in each corner.

The fronts as you know have the tweeter in the door and the 4x6 in the footwells.

The 4x6s ive found are all 2 way coaxials. Will running four total tweeters up front just be ridiculous?

Am I better off trying to fit 5.25" up front and run components front and rear?

I'm not a bass head, but I do prefer a well rounded soundstage. Will this setup be totally lacking in bass?

And finally, is there any reason to select a different speaker setup in the rear? (The speakers point right at the glass in the back)

I agree with preferring 2-way in the car over a 3-way setup. You have fewer packaging issues and you also tend to get better speakers for the money - most 3-way setups aren't expensive enough over their 2-way siblings to make up for the additional components.

Don't forget that in order to put a proper deeper bass foundation (that's deep, not loud) into a car you'll most likely need a subwoofer anyway, thus effectively turning the system into a 3-way system.

speakers are only half of the sound quality equation, you will want to look up some articles and threads on sound deadening.

I think only one tweeter is enough per side, 2 in such close proximity with inherently high frequency short wavelength sound will cause dead spots and loud spots within your vehicle.

That being said in my truck (reg cab s-10) I have 2 of the 4x6 midrange$ infinity plate speakers and in the doors 2 of the 6.5" midrange$ infinity speakers and no sound deadening. Speakers are powered by a mid range pioneer head unit. For subs I have 2 of the sundown E8 8" subwoofers behind the seats powered by an eclipse xa-1000. 480W RMS of creamy smooth bass in a tiny cab!

aussiesmg wrote: Awesome link there Curtis. Question, why choose two way or three way speakers?

IMHO, people who think that three-ways are better are the same people who thought they were hot stuff in 1985 because their Monte Carlo had a V8 in it. It was only 125 hp, but it was a V8.

Theoretically, the more sizes of speaker you have, the fewer frequencies each speaker is responsible for handling. If the crossover system sends them exactly what they need to be responsible for, it can be fine - but a little more complex than you typically need. Not to mention, most three-ways have a woofer and two tweeters, not a woofer, mid, and tweeter.

The difference between the two tweeters in a 3-way speaker isn't really a benefit. I think they're there to look good and sell speakers, not sound good.

Taiden wrote: So the rears appear to have both the 5.25" speakers and also a tweeter in each corner. The fronts as you know have the tweeter in the door and the 4x6 in the footwells. The 4x6s ive found are all 2 way coaxials. Will running four total tweeters up front just be ridiculous? Am I better off trying to fit 5.25" up front and run components front and rear? I'm not a bass head, but I do prefer a well rounded soundstage. Will this setup be totally lacking in bass? And finally, is there any reason to select a different speaker setup in the rear? (The speakers point right at the glass in the back)

The rear speakers do very little for the soundstage as far as mids and highs. I would personally select a 1-way 5.25 woofer setup for the rear. No need to waste wattage on highs unless you have a lot of back seat riders who listen to talk radio and want to hear what's being said. The soundstage is set by the front speakers and their relationship to your ear. The trunk makes a poor enclosure for "subs" but you can get some significant bass from some 5.25 or 6.5" speakers mounted on that deck. You could also mount some 6.5" "subs" in small boxes mounted under the deck firing up through the factory 5.25" holes.... crossover and amp highly suggested.

As far as the fronts, BMW probably did a very weak attempt at properly placing front speakers for a decent soundstage but one of the things they did not do in my E30 was to properly keep the mids and tweeters close to each other. My 5.25" fronts were on the bottom of the door and the tweeters were inside the mirrors on the door. That can have the effect of sound separation where the tweeters seem to scream at you and the mids are still there, but coming from somewhere else.

http://www.pypesexhaust.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

curtis73 wrote: Most factory head units are fine as far as frequency reproduction and sound quality, they just lack the power for true audiophile sound.

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement.

I agree as well, but often don't have the capability to tweak crossovers, and don't really like the compromises that must often be made to use the factory head units with good power.

In my eyes, the one MAIN reason to keep an OEM headunit is that most aftermarket head units look disgusting.

The OEM head unit just looks so good. And I love the simplicity and no-frills of it all. It matches the entire interior... and it has... wait for it... a REAL VOLUME KNOB! Plus, I have a friend who converted his tape deck to a true low voltage line in, and he's going to help me do the same to the BMW head unit.

I think I'll probably fit some 5.25" woofers in the back, and get some 5.25" components for the front and convince them to fit. I'll try to pick ones that are low RMS wattage so they work with the stock system.

Should I bother throwing a low pass filter on the rear woofers?

Taiden wrote: The OEM head unit just looks so good. And I love the simplicity and no-frills of it all. It matches the entire interior... and it has... wait for it... a REAL VOLUME KNOB! Plus, I have a friend who converted his tape deck to a true low voltage line in, and he's going to help me do the same to the BMW head unit. I think I'll probably fit some 5.25" woofers in the back, and get some 5.25" components for the front and convince them to fit. I'll try to pick ones that are low RMS wattage so they work with the stock system. Should I bother throwing a low pass filter on the rear woofers?

don't worry about wattage if you are powering them with a stock head unit, worry about ohms and sensitivity

Should I aim for a 2 ohm setup? Most components seem to be 4 ohm.

Taiden wrote: Should I aim for a 2 ohm setup? Most components seem to be 4 ohm.

If you're powering using stock headunit, you should aim for whatever ohm the stock system was, but probably with a higher sensitivity.

There's a company that makes speakers that sound good with stock power... Image Dynamics maybe? I might be messing that up...