What CAD program did you use? I don't see it mentioned here. I know you got it done with word, but that doesn't count :)
What CAD program did you use? I don't see it mentioned here. I know you got it done with word, but that doesn't count :)
Note that I didn't use Word as my example - the equivalent to Word here is Illustrator for drawing a few circles, not some powerful CAD program.
WonkoTheSane (Forum Supporter) said:What CAD program did you use? I don't see it mentioned here. I know you got it done with word, but that doesn't count :)
Started with AutoCAD mobile, but it won't let you start a drawing, CorelCAD, RootPro CAD, FreeCAD 3D, LibreCAD, SmartDraw, Sketchup, QCAD.
The one that easy to scetch in was SmartCAD, but I could not print to scale with it. And the PDF's were also not to scale.
I even tried to import the SmartCAD drawing into the other programs, since it could. But the drawing dimensions were all wrong- a small 4" diagram ended up to be way larger than a page.
Keith Tanner said:Note that I didn't use Word as my example - the equivalent to Word here is Illustrator for drawing a few circles, not some powerful CAD program.
To me, it's very odd that a powerful CAD program can't do a simple task, simply. If I wanted to print a simple layout of an A-arm so that I could fabricate a jig out of it, I would have the exact same problem that could not be solved with a simple illustrator. I honestly think that's a problem with the CAD programs- you should not require hours of training for a simple design.
One does not need to know how to publish a book when you need to make a simple document. One does not need to be well educated in databases to use excel. Heck, you don't even need to know how to make a moving presentation to make some simple slides in Powerpoint. And getting frustrated with programs to do something pretty simple isn't a good way to get me to pay money for the "pro" version of a program.
Printing to scale is absolutely a standard (core even) feature of CAD software, so I feel like something must be up if you are unable to do so in any of those programs.
Edit, I just installed/tried Qcad and was able to get a circle to scale in a PDF in about 45 seconds. Maybe you just aren't used to the CAD world? (I'm happy to walk you through it)
In reply to ProDarwin :
I'm not familiar with the CAD World, but my greater point is that it should be a whole lot easier. Drawing one circle was done- but then I could not figure out how to stop drawing circles, and edit the three that mattered. Once I have three circles on the page, I should be easily able to edit each of them relative to their size and position- just by clclking on it. Fishing through the system, and then ending up adding more circles to the drawing is just frustrating.
Here's what kind of frustrating in a different light- CAD users are very much needed these days. So a kid in HS should be able to pick up the basics pretty quickly- just like word and excel. If they pick it up, then maybe get a student license to add features and learn them. If I had to face that, I kinda dount I would bother with it. CAD should not be that hard to learn.
Anyway.....
Without a doubt, I would spend my time getting drawing paper out, taping it to my small drawing board, and do that way before learning the cad world.
Like any software, there are a million ways to do things.
IMO, CAD is not very hard at all to learn, but aside from push-pull cad, the expectation of being able to pick it up in 5 minutes is a little unreasonable. I think its interesting that you use Excel as an example, because 99% of users are awful at Excel. Similar to CAD, it appears simple, but it is not.
Complex assemblies with interpart relationships are a different story - many people struggle with that. I have used a ton of different CAD software and for basic stuff, the differences are mainly user-interface... and the cheaper the software, the worse the interface is.
I do agree that good CAD users are very much needed these days. Everywhere I have worked as an engineer, there is an expectation that you must be able to use CAD, but rarely do they differentiate between a good user and crappy user. Unfortunately colleges don't seem to spend any time focused on it either.
Why your circle "editing" comment seems weird:
There are two basic types of CAD: Parametric and non-parametric. Non parametric doesn't allow you to edit stuff, period. You re-draw it. Its super simple, but very fast for many things. The interface for non-parametric 2D CAD is largely all a copy of 2D Autocad which is great because you can move between them fairly easily, and that interface has been relatively constant for 20+ years.
Parametric stuff is designed to let someone parameterize their geometry however they want. So if you wanted to control the diameter of the circle, you throw a diameter constraint on it and adjust that how you want it. If you want the diameter to be driven by tangency or distance from another object, you apply those constraints.
Both of these types work well, but they both have a small learning curve. You are very logical and I have no doubt you could pick either of them up *very* quickly with decent instruction.
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:Keith Tanner said:Note that I didn't use Word as my example - the equivalent to Word here is Illustrator for drawing a few circles, not some powerful CAD program.
To me, it's very odd that a powerful CAD program can't do a simple task, simply. If I wanted to print a simple layout of an A-arm so that I could fabricate a jig out of it, I would have the exact same problem that could not be solved with a simple illustrator. I honestly think that's a problem with the CAD programs- you should not require hours of training for a simple design.
One does not need to know how to publish a book when you need to make a simple document. One does not need to be well educated in databases to use excel. Heck, you don't even need to know how to make a moving presentation to make some simple slides in Powerpoint. And getting frustrated with programs to do something pretty simple isn't a good way to get me to pay money for the "pro" version of a program.
Well, that's kinda my point. Are you using the equivalent of a layout program or are you using the equivalent of Notepad? I suspect it's the former. I've seen the frustration on the part of my coworkers when they try to edit an InDesign (layout) document just to change a few words, it sounds a lot like what you're saying now. The software can do it, but the software is pretty powerful and thus has a complex interface and set of conventions that can stymie a novice user in a hurry.
I just had to do some 2D CAD work. Fired up Illustrator and had the whole thing done in a couple of minutes with my shapes placed within 0.01mm. Ran it through the laser to make a cardboard test template and it's bang on. Note that Illustrator is not a CAD program, but when it comes to accurately placing vector shapes it's the bomb.
Because it was easier to measure the edges of my circles and rectangles instead of the center, I actually used the top left corner as my reference point. So Inkscape would have done the job just as well in this case. I could also have done it in LightBurn which is free to try, but is intended for xcode output. Looks like LightBurn can output a DXF if you're looking for those CAD drawings.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Does it matter what "version" I'm using? If you are going to offer a free trial version of your software, even if it's just the 2D version with restricted functions, the least it can do is easily and intuitively draw simple things in specifc location. The time it should take do accoplish that should be less than it would be by doing it on paper. That's kind of the point.
Like I've pointed out before, i've never had to use CAD for real. So this is all new to me. It's not as if I'm scared of computers, or don't want to learn new things- heck, right now, I'm learning new software at work- and i'm less than 20 months to retiring. But trying to wade through a program to see why it's telling me I'm drawing on A4 paper, when I've eliminated all but standard US letter page, and that the units I'm seeing are metric, and I spent 20 min trying to find the way to change the units- something is ver wrong. (I never figure it out- another version that I ended up deleting)
So I totally disagree that it's easy and intuitive- it is if you've had training and whatnot. And my overall claim is that it should not be required to do simple shapes in specific locations. It's supposed to be easier than a pencil, paper, and a rulers. And (agian) it's my honest opinion that it's hurting the market- as it keeps people from being CAD users and professionals when they should easily pick it up.
Still, I'm just an old enigneer who is just too young to be labeled a boomer. I don't see anything changing. Someone will always want to force the secret handshake.
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