I have a marvelously large two car garage that has succumbed to the dreaded catch all of life. Many GRMera have been by the house and I'm embarrassed every time I open a door. It currently has two cars, a build table, a couple tool boxes and a whole bunch of crap that needs to be saved for various reasons. 

I am hoping to get a few days off this weekend to be able to transport the build table and Panhard to their new home(s). It would be excellent to develop a plan to create some functionality from this black hole. 

Positives:

- I have a new Husky 46" roller chest, I will be adding a 44" USGeneral top chest to it in the spring.

- Crappy yet complete wire shelf racking system on upper section of two walls.

- I have decent LED lighting that is expandable.

- So much room for activities.

- There is a 6" cement header approximately 1 foot from the floor 3/4 the way around to build shelves up from to reduce the actual floor contact area. 

- Brand new roof.

- 6 pole relay box rated and wired for 220.

- When I mean it's huge I mean that I can park 3 cars side by side in every direction. 

Negatives:

- Unfinished drywall is absolutely berked from when the roof was torn off last spring.

- Floor was terribly done and leeches moisture from fall to end of spring.

- No heat.

- No ventilation.

- VERY limited budget for upgrades.

- There is a 1994 Dodge Spirit in my way. 

NEEDS:

- I want room to work on the Lexus and park Kelly's HR-V. 

- I need to create to for a large array of camping gear and accessories.

- I need to make room for a battery storage and charging center for tractors, race cars, grandkids Power Wheels and anything else that comes along. 

- I need to create a mobile welding table that can double as workshelf. 

- The rest of life's storable E36M3 will need to be catalogued and easy to locate with semi permanent places from season to season.

- I would eventually like to heat it and create some sort of breeze in the summer. 

What has the hive done or more importantly what ideas do you have to combat the clutter and help me get it back to Garage M'Haul?

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo SuperDork
12/28/20 6:21 p.m.

Few thoughts - 

  • Moisture - How come why?  Bad drainage?  On a hill?  Moisture doesn't just appear, and rarely its the fault of the slab.  Fix the drainage/moisture.  French drain, grading, etc.  
  • Ventilation - get a ceiling fan on the low from a home improvement center or similar.  Doesnt have to be pretty.  Run it a lot will keep the air moving and reduce flash rust.  Will make the eventual heat much better.  You can make a fan any diameter you want within reason by shortening the blades and then balancing them out on a gram scale.  
  • Scrap the Spirit and anything else not immediately being used.  Holy smokes it feels good to throw stuff away.  I list it on FB Marketplace on Saturday and let it ride for 1 week then it hits the trash or Goodwill pile.  My sanity and time is worth something so I dont do less than $10 for anything.  10 bucks will get me a lunch or a beer somewhere.  For less than that I will just dumpster it.  Roll the scrap money into the upgrades.  Ive been giving tools away to my friends and their kids, also feels great.  Got a new heat gun, send a dispatch to the bros to see who wants one.
  • Get some sheets of 1/2" Melamine and sheet as much as you can.  Its bright white, doesnt need paint or finishing, and cleans up well.  If money is tight, buy one or two sheets a week and hang them.  Can you come up with 50 bucks every 2 weeks?  Thats 2 sheets.  Insulating the ceiling helps a ton, insulating the walls is meh for a garage.  It helps but if the cash is tight....
  • Only keep garage things in the garage.  Camping stuff should be in totes in the house for lots of reasons.  Dedicate a small closet to camping stuff and get it all prepped so you can grab and go.  If it doesnt belong in the garage, get it out of there.  
  • Is there room and is there the OK from the town to build a lean-to on it?  If so, use that for outside storage of things like lawn mowers, yard stuff, etc.  

 

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

- Moisture: Literallycomes up through the concrete. No explanation for it. Top of the hill, good, if not great, runoff. It's perplexing.

- Ventilation - GREAT IDEA! I'm also considering a small window on the west facing wall that sees the brunt of the air on the house.

- The Spirit - It's Dad's. I'm kinda stuck with rebuilding it, which will be a bottomless pit but it's likely the best option. The other stuff has been getting moved at rock bottom prices.

- Melamine - YES! ANOTHER HREAT IDEA! I am thinking about clearing each wall and sheeting it one at a time as I can. The ceiling was insulated and drywalled but it took an ass whooping. It's the real issue in the garage. I need to consider dropping the garage for frames when I replace them boards on it because they are mounted on the face of the drywall. I am considering doing an overlay on top of the good existing boards with patches pieced into the holes.

- Garage is for garaging - The house has little to no storage. Part of the redispensing of clutter will focus on the basement which is going to be limited to things that can get dampish, it's a "Michigan cellar"

- Lean into the storm - I have been considering a lean-to. The more have a separate garage, and it's packed with the riders, a push mower, trailer and log splitter plus gardening supplies. The lean-to would be great for cold storable items like bikes, Powerwheels and ladders though! Being in the middle of a field with no traffic helps me to get away with "non structural" improvements like that without a lot of guff from the county and township

 

Uncle David (Forum Supporter)
Uncle David (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand New Reader
12/28/20 7:55 p.m.

Moisture:  My father's garage had the same issue. It is in a level area and the slab is above ground level, but it sweats a lot sometimes.  Get a dehumidifier and set it up to drain outside.  Note: This will increase your electric bill. 

Insulate before you cover the walls. Use as much insulation as you can. 

Re-do the wiring to your liking before you do the insulation. 

Heat the garage a bit in winter. The lower humidity (higher temp +same dew point) will help evaporate the moisture on the floor. 

Keep stuff off the floor, to avoid rust and mold, until you sufficiently address the moisture issue. This includes stuff stored in sealed plastic bins, because the humidity gets in anyway. 

My next garage will have wall-mounted fans instead of ceiling fans because installing ceiling fans is such a PITA.

Position your lighting over the space between cars to minimize shadows. 

I bet YouTube can help you out w.r.t to the welding table.

LarryNH (Forum Supporter)
LarryNH (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand Reader
12/28/20 8:39 p.m.

Replace drywall with green board to minimize moisture issues.  Then cover with FRP sheets.  You can wash down the walls if needed.  If you don't expect wet walls, you can cut FRP to cover bottom 3 feet.

preach
preach GRM+ Memberand Reader
12/29/20 9:01 a.m.

My walls are scrounged plywood, as is my floor. This would help you in the wall area but not the floor. Can you seal the floor with something?

Plywood walls makes hanging lighter stuff easy as you do not need to find a stud. 

Look at all of the garage builds here, there are some good ones and most of us are cheap. Here is mine:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/the-toilet-a-shop-story/160018/page1/

gearheadmb
gearheadmb SuperDork
12/29/20 9:10 a.m.

You could put in a big, high shelf that is as long as you can get away with. Put it up high enough that you can walk under it without stooping, and leave room underneath for lights. Mount it to the wall and ceiling so it is clear underneath. Make it about two feet deep. This will be for your camping stuff, coolers, anything that doesn't get used all the time. 

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo SuperDork
12/29/20 9:19 a.m.

Good point about the condensation on the slab.  Fans will definitely help, dehumidifier or mini-split would also help but cost more, otherwise check the interior humidity and consider adding a ridge vent.  

Regarding the Spirit, get a load of washed gravel and some timbers and build a parking pad next to the garage.  Bonus points if its under your new lean-to.  Drag the Spirit there until you can bear to send it to the crusher.   Hell if you have some pines on your property I have seen guys do "good-nuff" rough construction using their own timber and one of those clamp-on-the-bar chainsaw saw mills.  Would be fine for a lean-to built on a McBudget, or find someone with a falling down barn that you can take down for materials.  Assume if you are out in the sticks in Michigan that sort of thing is just a matter of driving around and knocking on doors.  

I got some of those "over the garage door" shelves.  Little spendy but certainly practical and really good at using otherwise dead space.  

 

What sort of resources do you have available to you and is this a long term place?  

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
12/29/20 10:45 a.m.

1. Junk out. Anything you aren't immediately planning to use can get tossed or sold. I've been chipping away at this since the challenge and am already up about $1500. Selling small stuff on eBay, bigger stuff on FB marketplace. It feels great. The key for me is to take pics, and then box the items, and label them on a shelf. Then list on eBay. That way is it super easy to just grab and ship when the item sells. And the stuff feels 'gone' as soon as it is boxed. The GRM new years game is an excellent opportunity here!

2. I'd go for lighting next (or while you wait for your stuff to sell on eBay). Nothing frustrates like not being able to see. 

3. Make a new plan at that point. 

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

Resources are slim but I plan on an initial $500 investment in melamine and/or white luan panel as well as rewiring the outlets with each wall getting dual circuita. There are enough of them spaced evenly out on the walls but no 220 ran, so my intention is to develop it in the following manner:

(The front doors open North)

West wall will hold tool boxes elevated from floor and fixed against wall with a @30" countertop running on top of them. Building the weld table to slide even with the cabinet at the rear corner. Installing a small window above the welding table. That will be the first wall to be stripped and recovered. A 220 drop mid way on the wall. 

The south wall will be next. Using the recovered wire shelving, wood and countertop I will build a bench along the entire back wall with the exception of about four feet that will be reserved for folding tables, chairs, etc. The wire shelf will be mounted mid height from the floor and along the cement header. I think some basic LED rope lighting under the countertop will illuminate it well enough and create a rich accent.

The east wall will primarily be clean with nothing but outlets. 

Ceiling will retain the outlets for the garage doors as well as outlets for ceiling fans and for a retractable cable roll drop in the center. 

Air lines will be dropped in two spots of each wall as well as a retractable one the center of the garage. 

I think that investing into a lean to will be step two, that will allow me to store the compressor outside to be piped in as well.

I will consider an upper shelf as well, but I think Kelly and I decided last night that a larger room be built off the rear of the house with a dedicated Holiday/Seasonal storage rack system put in place. 

Oh and the property is permanent. It has been in the family for 130 years, it's not going anywhere.

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo SuperDork
12/29/20 5:41 p.m.

Few more tips n tricks since it sounds like you are headed down a good path.

In the two garages I have redone I always pipe and wire in EMT conduit instead of in-wall.  More flexible than in-wall and can be done easier in stages you get one wall done. All 12 gauge, one circuit per wall of 120V and a separate circuit for the lights.  Had a few folks suggest doing double outlets on the wall and doing LH and RH outlets on separate circuits.  Nice trick but a ton more work and materials in my mind.  

Don't undervalue premade metal shelving instead of 2x4 shelving.  Its often stronger, looks better, less wasted space because metal is stronger for its size, and saves a ton of time.  Unless the 2x4s and plywood are free or you need some odd custom solution, premade shelving is a huge win in my book.

Is the rest of the structure good?  Doors?  Sills and sheeting?  Siding?  If no, fix that first since its a lot easier now.

Doors are good, currently all the wiring is behind the drywall, I was considering using that and a second run externally if I do more. The 220v was going in top level conduit from the get go as well as the air piping. 

There are two large bay doors and two walk through doors. One to the breezeway for the house and the other to the east side of the building. All are in good condition. I have two new matching garage door openers, one installed and the other NIB. The old Craftsman is still doing it's job so that will get swapped when the ceiling gets done.

Other than that the three 8' lights are bad so they were replaced with six LED 4' units that will become a total of eighteen when the garage is closer to finished.

engiekev
engiekev HalfDork
12/30/20 8:40 a.m.

I'm also in the process of planning a garage upgrade, starting from roughly the same point, lots of good ideas here!

+1 for de-junking, and storage organization.  Keep as much stuff that isn't used away as possible, I like clear organizer boxes so its easy to see whats inside.  Stash in garage attic if that is possible.  As you work in the shop, set aside things that arent used throughout the weeks, you'd be surprised how quickly the list adds up.

Caster wheels on everything, including work bench if you can.  The ability to move tools and storage around and then clean is really worth it.

For ceiling I was planning on doing my ceiling in metal roofing in white for more lighting reflection, its cheap and way easier to put up than drywall.  That might be an option to just put up right on top of the nasty drywall.   Can purchase from Menards or find a local metal roofing store.

Interior Options – Pole Barns Direct

For HVAC, do you want or will want AC? And do you have gas or propane supply in the shop?  Those will dictate choices.  A mini split, or used hotel-style HVAC wall-in gets you both AC and heat. 

Also in Michigan, Joey has mentioned you a and the crazy lexus a few times!

In reply to engiekev :

I was considering just patching in the old drywall and using 16 ft roofing sheets as well. The "attic" has no real usable access and is essentially just an air gap. 

No plans for air conditioning, possibly adding a small shop heater to the fan plan. I have a 1000 gallon LPG tank directly behind the garage so it wouldn't be impossible to add a junction and a little furnace. 

The more I think about it all the more realistic the lean-to becomes. The list of things in my way today are: Six bikes, grandkids outdoor play items, four Powerwheels, the build jig going to Robbie, the Panhard, the Spirit, a Miata engine going back to Joey, a 3.0l engine for the Spirit, a dozen or so wheels and tires. 

I'm going to arrange a dry area in the basement and move the grandkids stuff and the bikes down there then get the jig and Panhard  into the trailer. At that point I will tear out the Spirit drivetrain and get the new engine ready then prep the car to be gone. Tear down the wheels that will be reused, prep and paint them and get the tires to their wheel and get what's left sold.

The Lexus is so much ridiculous fun. Nothing that big should move or sound like that.

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo SuperDork
12/30/20 3:45 p.m.

Lean-to's are great if you can swing them.  I would love to have one but city life...

Suggest positioning it so that whichever direction the storms come in from, you are on the opposite if possible.  Get some heavy shelving up high near the center, with a proper roof thats almost as dry as anywhere indoors.  

If I only had to spend $500 on updates and it sounds like the bones are good, I would put all my resources into a leanto to get the big garage cleaned out.  Will also be handy for the future major remodel of the big garage.  Then if you can, see if you can set up a separate savings account with an auto-deduct $50 from every paycheck.  End of the year thats a $1300 bill (assuming paid bi-weekly) to play with and I promise you you wont miss it from the check.  

If you just want to brigten up the inside go nuts at the mistint paint aisle.  If you mix enough colors together it all becomes beige anyway, buy the 5 lightest color gallons they have for $10 each, mix them together in a 5 gallon bucket and shoot the inside with an airless paint sprayer.  Even if you are covering it later it will help out a ton to have it all one light, even color.  But thats gonna piss away 1/5 of your budget after buying masking supplies and if you had to ask me if I wanted more space or better space, more is always gonna win out in your current situation.  

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