The 140 mile line between Mobile and New Orleans had around 25 miles of timber trestles, which could be ignited by sparks from brakes or a hot journal box. L&N crews are working from both ends of one of these breaks in the bridge on Biloxi Bay to get traffic flowing again faster.
NickD said:A rare look at the back of GM&O #1900, the sole Ingalls 4-S built. You can see how the cab has better rearward visibility than any of it's competitors' offerings due to the turreted cab, and it also shows the rear compartment for the brakeman to ride aboard when switching, rather than having to hang off the side like on an F-Unit or FA
That is absolutely, 100%, not at all what I expected the back end of that locomotive to look like. From this view it just looks like an RDC attempt with some weird protuberance at the other end.
NickD said:Bound for Mobile, an L&N freight crosses the Biloxi Bay
That may be the same bridge as today, but without the control cab.
NickD said:The 140 mile line between Mobile and New Orleans had around 25 miles of timber trestles, which could be ignited by sparks from brakes or a hot journal box. L&N crews are working from both ends of one of these breaks in the bridge on Biloxi Bay to get traffic flowing again faster.
I wouldn't be surprised if most of them remained wood until after Katrina.
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) said:NickD said:A rare look at the back of GM&O #1900, the sole Ingalls 4-S built. You can see how the cab has better rearward visibility than any of it's competitors' offerings due to the turreted cab, and it also shows the rear compartment for the brakeman to ride aboard when switching, rather than having to hang off the side like on an F-Unit or FA
That is absolutely, 100%, not at all what I expected the back end of that locomotive to look like. From this view it just looks like an RDC attempt with some weird protuberance at the other end.
Its not a winner stylistically but functionally its actually better than the competition.
In reply to NickD :
Since you keep bringing up railroads I live/have lived close enough to that I hear the trains(like the CSX one passing by right now), here's a pic of the original C&EI depot in Rossville.
At one point it was damaged by fire, and when they rebuilt it the roof design was changed & parapet removed. This is a drawing of it my father did back in 1982 for their brochure.
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) said:NickD said:The 140 mile line between Mobile and New Orleans had around 25 miles of timber trestles, which could be ignited by sparks from brakes or a hot journal box. L&N crews are working from both ends of one of these breaks in the bridge on Biloxi Bay to get traffic flowing again faster.
I wouldn't be surprised if most of them remained wood until after Katrina.
It reminds me if how they Wiscasset, Waterville & Farmington used untreated timbers for all their ties, some of their bridges and the huge waterfront pier/trestle at Wiscasset. The WW&F was never healthy, so the cheaper timber was appealing to them, but it was really more expensive in the long run. They said replacing ties and rebuilding bridges was just a neverending project and roughly 50% of their revenue was spent every year in timbers. It definitely explains why the WW&F's best-ever operating ratio (percentage of revenue spent on operating expenses) was 96%
Merry Christmas from Owen W. Owen W., a phonetic play on O&W, was a mascot created by the New York, Ontario & Western in their later years. The O was his head and the W was his legs. Owen failed to turn around the company's image though
Merry Christmas!
...and a special thank you for contributing and sharing so much information.
Lou Manglass
In reply to NickD :
Any idea on this? A friend found the pics on Reddit without any description & hasn't been able to find anything on Google.
In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :
Some sort of old parade float maybe? I know there is one that the B&O built to look like an EA and used for promotional purposes. There was one that Milwaukee Road built to look like one of the streamlined 4-4-2s that was pretty convincing. It resurfaced a couple decades ago and sent people into a tizzy when they thought it was an actual Hiawatha Atlantic that had been hidden away somewhere. For the record, I don't know of a single instance of a "locomotive in a barn/quarry/shed/etc" rumor being true.
KSHC Inks Operations Deal for C&O 2716 (kentuckysteam.org)
Pretty excited to see this one. Ever since the Kentucky Steam Heritage Corp. has announced their plan to return C&O #2716 to service, everyone has been asking the question of "Where are thy going to operate it?" Some have been expecting a softening of CSX steam policies and that maybe CSX will allow it to run some sort of corporate-backed excursions, which other think is naive. Well, it's not the permanent home, but yesterday the KSHC announced that they have signed a deal with the Railroad Museum of New England to host it for several months.
"The Kentucky Steam Heritage Corporation has inked an agreement that will bring the mammoth steam engine rolling into New England on the first of several stops on an exciting residency program. The Railroad Museum of New England, based in Thomaston, Connecticut, has signed up to be a months-long host to C&O 2716, a massive “Kanawha” type engine built by the American Locomotive Company in 1943. The agreement will allow the engine to be the star of the already-popular tourist operation that operates a 19-mile route between Waterbury and Torrington, Connecticut.
Howard Pincus, Chairman of RMNE, said he is thrilled to be the first operation to host the mammoth piece of rolling history. “We’re pleased to be hosting C&O 2716 on our railroad, as it will be the first large steam locomotive to operate in New England since 1976,” Mr. Pincus said. “It’s a wonderful opportunity to partner with a capable and visionary group like KSHC. Moving operational steam locomotives between heritage groups is quite common in Great Britain, but has only been done a few times in the United States. "
“We plan to feature 2716 on regular and special passenger excursions throughout the engine’s residency,” Mr. Pincus said. “Our 1920s open-window coaches will allow riders to experience the sounds and sights of steam power in the Litchfield Hills of Northwestern Connecticut. There will also be opportunities for special photo events, featuring our collection of 1920s-1950s vintage freight cars, making a historically-appropriate freight train for 2716.” Mr. Pincus added that, “We aren’t counting out any operational opportunity for the engine while it’s here. There are bound to be some surprises, and we have a lot of imagination. Think about seeing 2716 steaming through a New England winter snowfall!”
New England is certainly not where I would have expected to see a C&O Kanawha operating, but I'm definitely okay with it. Any time big steam engines come up my way is good, and RMNE is a much better venue to see it operating at than #611 at Strasburg. I'm curious if it will be moved to New England over CSX lines (CSX has been helping out with the #2716 restoration) or if it will move over Norfolk Southern to Pan Am Southern.
RMNE isn't too far from me. I've never made it out that way, but this might be the push I needed to finally get out there. Please keep us posted on anything further.
In reply to 02Pilot :
I'm not sure how close #2716 is to operation, but the restoration is still ongoing, so it'll be a while before its runs up there. I'm kind of surprised that RMNE is the first place its going to operate at. I would have guessed Tennessee Valley Railway Museum.or North Carolina Transportation Museum or Kentucky Railway Museum, since they are all much closer to Kentucky Steam Heritage Corp.
Hopefully third time is the charm for the #2716, because she's always been a perennial hard luck case. It's also surprising that with 12 preserved C&O Kanawha, the #2716 is the only one to ever be returned to operation, albeit briefly. Really nice modern engines, tons of power but also happy to run mainline speeds. It'd also be nice to see her meet up with her other Van Sweringen Berkshire cousins, NKP #765 and Pere Marquette #1225
Also interesting to see this line:
"Moving operational steam locomotives between heritage groups is quite common in Great Britain, but has only been done a few times in the United States. "
Some people have been advocating this for a long time, especially as mainline excursion opportunities have evaporated. It's happened a little in the past, like when Steamtown hosted Milwaukee Road #261 from '94-'95 and then NKP #765 around 2011 (neither to happen again from what I hear) but its looking like the idea might be taking root. NKP #765 spent this year at Cuyahoga Valley, #611 spent time at North Carolina Transportation Museum last year and then this year at Strasburg, this deal with RMNE is notes to be the first hosting location for #2716.
Need to find a private railroad to run on, like the Kankakee, Beaverville & Southern Railroad.
When diesels took over, companys liked the lower cost, less maintenance etc. What did the engineers and round house crews think of diesels when they appeared? Did they scoff at the new technology or happily adopt it?
LS_BC8 said:Need to find a private railroad to run on, like the Kankakee, Beaverville & Southern Railroad.
While the KB&S has avoided it, a lot of the independent shortlines are being bought up by a rapid rate by Genesee & Wyoming, and the Orange Plague has made it clear that not only are they not a fan of steam locomotives, they refuse to host any passenger operations of any sort. Several shortlines that ran excursions have been taken over by G&W and almost immediately the passenger equipment has been sold off, along with any motive power that isn't an EMD road switcher.
On paper, Steamtown should be a perfect place to host traveling steam locomotives. They don't have to restore or maintain any locomotives, and they still get to run excursions, and the various groups that own the locomotive would get a pretty lengthy line to operate their equipment over, along with a roundhouse to store their engine in and a locomotive shop to perform any maintenance. Unfortunately, Steamtown has proved itself to be incapable of even just playing host. When Steamtown NHS had their opening weekend, Andy Mueller sent Reading & Northern #425 up to Scranton to haul excursions. He then found out that there was a bunch of bureaucratic red tape involved and that his crews would not be allowed to operate the engine and he would have to hand the keys, so to speak, over to Steamtown crews. He wasn't pleased with the situation and so #425 spent the whole weekend on static display. Milwaukee Road #261 hung around after the opening weekend and spent a year at Scranton, but from what I hear, the group that owns the locomotive has sworn that they will never return to Steamtown. No clue what transpired there, but there is more bad blood than a hemophiliac's convention. Nickel Plate #765 spent a summer at Steamtown and lost money on pretty much every trip due to the fact that Steamtown, as a national historic site, legally cannot run any paid advertising, so a lot of people weren't aware that #765 was even there and operating trips. The Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society has said that they have sworn off another visit to Steamtown after that. The group that run CNJ #113 spent three years trying to get Steamtown to let them bring the big 0-6-0 up there to run some trips, since Scranton was CNJ territory, and pretty much got blown off by Steamtown management, and so will instead continue to run trips on the R&N.
The facilities of Steamtown, the old DL&W roundhouse and engine shops and coal tipple, which are one of it's greatest strengths, also tend to hamstring things. As it is, they have Reading #2124, and Scranton was Reading territory, and NKP #759, in excellent mechanical condition, which they can't run because they don't easily fit the turntable or roundhouse. The NKP #765 folks had the same issue with fitting it on the turntable and also said that it struggled to negotiate the ready track out of the turntable and the switch to reach the coal tipple. They had to grease the rails every time they had to get it out of the roundhouse or over to fill the tender. And that rules out visits by N&W #611 or C&O #2716 or PM #1225.
Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) said:When diesels took over, companys liked the lower cost, less maintenance etc. What did the engineers and round house crews think of diesels when they appeared? Did they scoff at the new technology or happily adopt it?
It depends on the individual and the railroad's equipment. I know that UP crews bemoaned the retirement of the Big Boys and had nothing but good things to say about the big 4-8-8-4s and their performance on Sherman Hill. The Big Boy was a nice, modern steam locomotive with all the modern conveniences. Meanwhile, the Pennsylvania typically skimped on the niceties and a lot of even their bigger power was still using a Jonhson Bar and was hand-fired, including their massive I1sa "hippos". The guys who ran the I1sas always complained about them being rough-riding and back-breaking to fire, and were more than happy to climb aboard a comparatively cushy diesel. Don Ball's Pennsylvania Railroad: 1940-1950s recounts an engineer who took his first run aboard a set of diesels climbed down afterwards and noted that his shirt was still clean and happily remarked, "Damn, now this is white-collar." Central Railroad of New Jersey crews were likely glad to be rid of their old Camelback ten-wheelers, which were uncomfortable and dangerous. And NYO&W crews were "blessed" with both engines devoid of niceties, and a large roster of Camelbacks as well.
Some of it also came down to the diesels that they purchased. EMDs were much beloved for excellent customer service and parts support and were pretty friendly to work on. Alco stuff was pretty decent in terms of reliability and maintenance and was pretty well-liked, but customer service was their undoing. When Alco-stronghold Delaware & Hudson bought their first GEs, a D&H employee admitted it wasn't that the GEs were a better locomotive, it was just that GE gave them better support. Getting replacement Alco parts was like pulling teeth, and the Alco plant was an on-line customer that the D&H served! Fairbanks-Morses, with their twin-crankshaft, vertical opposed-piston 2-strokes, were so alien that crews just weren't comfortable working on them, and a lot of F-M's reputation for poor reliability was due to that. Baldwins were pretty much universally reviled. Baldwin didn't plumb or wire any two locomotives the same, even if they were of the same model in the same batch for the same customer, which made them nightmarish to work on. Don Ball recounts talking to a PRR helper crew stationed at Horseshoe Curve about the PRR's Baldwin Centipedes and the PRR crew were only too happy to have them replaced with Alco RSD-12s. The Centipedes had such stellar design choices as fuel tanks that were integrated into the roof (!) and always leaked, oil coolers that were mounted above the fuseblocks and leaked oil down into them, and the traction motor blower ducts always fell out of alignment and cooled the ballast instead of the motor. The fireman said "We never went up the mountain with all four engines running [Centipedes had 2 engines a piece, and PRR ran the locomotives in back-to-back pairs]. It's a wonder they never did us the favor of having two engines or even all four crap out at the same time". The PRR factored all their diesel equipment operating expenses on a cents-per-mile base, except for the Baldwin Centipedes, which were on a dollars-per-mile basis.
LS_BC8 said:Need to find a private railroad to run on, like the Kankakee, Beaverville & Southern Railroad.
When I was a kid the KB&S let us(the Rossville Railroad Museum) run speeder trips on Sundays, since they didn't run any revenue service that day. I ran into one of the guys from the museum about 8 years ago & I remember he said they hadn't run any trips in a long time, but I don't remember if he ever stated a reason.
I had to the day off and go to Utica today, and on the way back I decided to swing by a spot I had seen a local railfan mention on the one Facebook group. The timing was right that and Amtrak Empire Service eastbound train was due through. So, down on a dead end road in the middle of a wetland is a grade crossing with CSX's mainline, the former NYC Mohawk Division Water Level Route. As I got there, an MoW crew was welding on one rail in the distance. Not long after arriving, the MoW crew picked up their stuff and I saw a headlight approaching from the west but then its stopped and didn't seem to be moving, and the MoW crew went back to work. A couple minutes later, on the other track, the Amtrak train raced into view, with a dual-mode Genesis in Phase II colors and a couple AmFleets.
I hung around, expecting the other train to roll out shortly after but it was still sitting there, now with the ditch lights off. Another person who has shown up had a radio in his car and said it was a CSX freight and it was having an issue with the air brakes related to the DPU and that the crew was trying to solve it. He then added that the MoW crew was due to wrap up any second, and once they were done, things were going to get very busy. He left and it hung around a little longer.
I heard a train approaching from the east and as it approached, I saw its was one of Mohawk, Adirondack & Northern's Alco C425s headed towards Rome. To get from Utica to Rome, MA&N has trackage rights over CSX, and it can't imagine there are many places where old Alcos routinely tread on the CSX mainline
In tow were several bulkhead flatcars with massive plates of steel and about a dozen tank cars. The flats were headed to American Alloy Steel, while the tank cars were headed to Sevena to be filled with olive oil.
First stop was American Alloy Steel. They cut off the tank cars, the ran around the bulkhead flats to shove them inside the building.
They shoved the cars down towards the building, opened the overhead door and realized there were empty cars inside the building, so they had to back up, put them loaded cars in a siding, then ran down in and retrieved the empty cars, coupled back on and shoved the loaded cars inside.
Then they backed up, unhooked the empty flatcars, retrieved the olive oil cars and towed those up onto Griffiss Industrial Park to drop off for MA&N's GE 80-tonner to switch later.
To get up to the industrial park, they have to hold up 6 lanes of traffic, including a 4-lane highway. I've never seen a train make this crossing before, so this was a treat.
A photo of C&O #2716's ongoing restoration from summer of this year. I know that it always had issues with the firebox, Southern parked her due to the firebox cracking and then attempts to weld them up failed, so it makes sense to cut the whole thing out and replace it with a new one.
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