Grassroots Railroad Sports?

In reply to NickD :

I saw a cool vid the other day about the TVA FM move. Part of it comes across a bit like an infomercial for the material handling company, but even that is actually really interesting. 
 

In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :

I saw part of that video. Definitely cool that they have footage of it operating. I'm pretty certain that #3060 was the last F-M road switcher in revenue service, and possibly the last one operational in general. I know the Train Master and Baby Train Master in Canada are display pieces, the H-16-44 in Alberta is definitely inoperable, and I don't know about the two H-16-44 in Mexico. There are two H-20-44s in the US, with at least one of them operational, but I'm not sure those count as road switchers. They were strange. They looked like a huge end-cab switcher but had 2000hp, road switcher gearing and dynamic brakes.

It's interesting, and sad, that there aren't any Fairbanks-Morse exclusive shortline. Alcos have Genesee Valley Transportation, Baldwin's have SMS Rail Lines, but F-Ms are entirely museum pieces.

IRM has the very first Fairbanks-Morse locomotive, Milwaukee Road #760, an H-10-44 switcher. Unlike it's competitors, F-M never offered an end-cab switcher in the 600-800hp range. They came in only 1000hp and 1200hp variants. 

In reply to NickD :

You should check out the equipment in the vid they used to put the loco back on the rails. They're like forklifts, and not that big, but the whole back half with the counterweight slides apart from the rest of the machine. Plus they're remote controlled. 

In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :

Those are strange. I've never seen those before. Usually people use those big side-boom Caterpillars for pipe-laying.

The SD80MACs were interesting machines. They were designed to split the difference between the 4000hp SD70MAC and the 6000hp SD90MAC. Where the SD70MAC used a V16 710 engine and the SD90MAC used a V16 265H or 1010 prime mover, the SD80MAC used a 20-cylinder variant of the 710 that made 5000hp. They were the first application of a 20-cylinder engine in an EMD product since the SD45 and it's derivatives left the market. They also introduced the huge flared radiators, similar to what GE had been using, which would also be used on the SD90MAC. Conrail was the sole purchaser of the SD80MAC in 1995, and they were the last locomotives purchased by Conrail before it was split by CSX and NS. C&NW had actually had placed an order for 15 SD80MACs in 1995, but it was converted to SD9043MAC "convertibles" by Union Pacific when they purchased C&NW. Canadian Pacific had also placed an order for SD80MACs but almost immediately changed the order to SD90MACs. And Conrail had been going back for a second order of SD80MACs, but NS converted part of the order to straight SD70s, whilse CSX converted the other part to SD70MACs. Considering that the none of the SD9043MACs were converted to 6000hp SD90MAC specs, and many of the 6000hp SD90MACs were downrated to SD70-spec, I wonder if railroads would have been better off buying the SD80MAC, since it offered more horsepower than the SD70 and SD9043MAC but without the extreme fuel usage and reliability issues of the SD90MAC.

A pair of SD80MACs rolling through Little Falls, NY. The signal bridge and milepost were ghosts of the New York Central, and both are now gone. The story I've read for the SD80MAC's development was that at the time, Conrail wanted to use just two locomotives on freights over the former Boston & Albany and had determined that 10,000hp was the safe amount of power that they needed, so EMD cooked up a 5000hp AC locomotive. One potential reason given for the SD80's failure to launch is that railroads have a long memory and still recalled the issues with the V20 engines in the early SD45s, and so were not enticed to purchase a new 20-cylinder locomotive.

The SD80MACs were also the first AC traction units owned by NS, and I'm pretty certain they were the first safety cab units owned by NS. NS was a holdout for DC traction and Spartan, or standard, cabs. 

Something that I hope doesn't slip through the fingers of preservationists is one of the Illinois Central "Death Stars". The last new diesel power purchased by Illinois Central before it's acquisition by Canadian National was a batch of SD70s. In typical cheapskate Illinois Central fashion, they were equipped with DC traction motors and Spartan cabs. Railfans nicknamed them "Death Stars" due to the circular logo on the front that does have a certain resemblance to the Death Star. Of the 40 SD70s that IC purchased, 4 were wrecked and scrapped in 2005 and ten had been repainted, leaving 26 still rattling around in IC colors as of 2020. But there have been rumors of the ex-IC SD70s and other CN -70 and -75 series engines being rebuilt into SD70ACCs. Norfolk Southern is currently doing the same thing to their old straight SD70s, installing their homebuilt Crescent Cab wide noses and converting them from DC to AC, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. It'd be sad to see the last IC locomotives be modified beyond recognition.

Three IC "Death Stars" heading north on home rails, past the old coaling towers at Gilman, Illinois from this summer.

The extensive rebuild programs are a new issue that has reared it's head with preservation. Back in the '50s and '60s, by and large when a railroad was done with something, they just traded it in for scrap. There were a few that were rebuild heavy, like ATSF with their CF7s, SF30Cs, and SD26s, or Illinois Central with their Paducah Geeps, but by and large they just retired stuff and sent it off to the scrapyard or back to the manufacturer to harvest parts for the new units. You just had to get ahold of the railroad or the scrapyard and strike a deal with them. But now, while some stuff like those SD80MACs are being retired, a lot of older stuff is going through complete rebuilds that often leave them looking nothing like what they started. 

B&O Railroad Museum has a "wishlist" with CSX for certain units that are active but have historical significance and fit the museums preservation goals. Those units have a placard installed on the side of the cab that marks that those units are not to be rebuilt or scrapped. But a couple years ago, there was a WM GP40 that somebody missed the placard on and it was sold off. There has been some concern though, because there are some SD40-2s that the museum wants, like the first B&O SD40-2 or the last B&O locomotive purchased or something, and they were worried that CSX people might miss the placard again and it would get put through the SD40-3 rebuild program, where they get the weird new CSX-built cabs (the Spongebob Squarecabs) that completely alter how they look.

NickD said:

Three IC "Death Stars" heading north on home rails, past the old coaling towers at Gilman, Illinois from this summer.

I'm baffled how those are still standing??!?!

I don't ever remember seeing the Conrail paint scheme like on those SD80MACs, from the front they don't look like Conrail until I read the name. 

In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :

I believe the 80MACs were the only Conrail units to wear that scheme. I could be wrong, though.

In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :

They're not over the mainline, so they aren't in the way of double-stack trains. If they were, they surely would have been demolished. As largely concrete structures, with all the metal parts already stripped, there isn't any scrap money in them or anything. So as long as they're out of the way and not in danger of collapsing, it's easier just to leave them be.

The SD80MAC livery was unique. There was also the slight change from the original livery to the Conrail Quality lettering introduced on the GE C40-8Ws.

Original plans were for Conrail to be spelled as ConRail, since Conrail is a contraction of Consolidated Rail Corporation. Even worse was that the original plan for Conrail equipment to be painted a red-oxide color, like used on boxcars. The phrase "blueprint to profitability" was bandied around a lot while Conrail was being planned though, and so using blue paint seemed logical.

The office car special E8s were originally painted the blue and white but then in 1983 they were changed to a very dark green with gold lettering.

All three of the Conrail E8s still exist. #4020 and #4021 were ex-PRR, and the #4022 was ex-Erie/Erie-Lackawanna. The PRR units had been pretty extensively rebuilt electrically. The E-L unit had the original electrical systems but the best engines, culled from ex-Reading Baldwin VO-1000s that had been repowered with EMD 567s.

The PRR units are owned by Juniata Terminal Company. They hauled excursions for years but PTC requirements caused Bennett Levin to park them. The third was on the New York & Greenwood Lake in Erie colors but has since moved elsewhere.

There were also the blue and yellow FL9s that Conrail used on their New York City commuter runs until Metro North took over

With mentions of Illinois Central and Fairbanks-Morse products, this seems relevant: Illinois Central had tested the F-M Train Master demonstrators and came away quite impressed. Illinois Central was fully ready to pull the trigger on an order of 75 of the H-24-66s. But just about the time they were going to order, a proxy fight erupted at F-M. IC caught wind of the internal politics and got nervous, so they cancelled the order and went running back to EMD. They settled on 1500 hp B-B GP7s instead of the 2,400 hp C-C Trainmasters. I wonder what the Train Masters would have looked like after one of IC's Paducah rebuild programs, with chopped hoods, frog's eye headlights, and the ox-yoke air filters that they applied to their Geeps.

Illinois Central also backed out of a very late order of EMD E9s in 1964. They placed an order for 2 E9s and 12 GP28s. The Geeps, which were a rare model that was essentially a de-turboed GP35, were delivered but the E9s weren't. There seems to be a little debate on what happened. Some say IC saw the downturn in passenger traffic and decided they didn't need two more passenger units, others say that EMD had dropped the E9 from their catalog. 

Illinois Central was also considering buying five FP45s a couple years later. It's not known if IC actually placed an order or if EMD just thought they had the sale in the bag, but EMD set builder numbers aside for them, and that's usually done if a purchase seemed a sure thing. Whatever the case was, no FP45s arrived on the property.

Some other diesels that were ordered but never delivered for one reason or another:

Detroit, Toledo & Ironton had an order with Alco for five C420s, but then EMD swooped in and offered a better deal on GP38-2s. DT&I cancelled their order with Alco and took delivery of the very first GP38-2s that EMD built.

Rock Island placed an order for ten Alco C430s. At this point, the Rock and Union Pacific were in the midst of their merger discussions that would stretch on for a decade. Union Pacific had no desire to inherit new Alco road units if the merger went through, and made Rock Island cancel the order and buy more GE U25Bs instead. The merger failed, Rock Island filed for abandonment, and UP ended up with the U25Bs, but even though they were repainted to UP colors, they never ran in service because they were so beat up.

Rock Island also ordered a batch of GP38-2s, which were actually constructed. But by the time they were actually built, Rock Island had shut down and they were instead delivered to C&NW and Grand Trunk Western instead.

Western Pacific was looking to replace their aging EMD FTs and put in an order with EMD for twenty-one GP30s with high hoods and big Pyle-National "trashcan" headlights. By the time EMD got around to building them though, the GP30 was out of production and EMD converted the order to the newly-introduced GP35s. Since this bumped up the price of the new units, Western Pacific dropped the extra-cost option of a high front hood.

Western Pacific later canceled an order of fifteen GP38-2s. Before ordering the GP30s, they had tested the GE U25B demonstrators but decided to give GE products time to prove themselves. By 1972, GE products had proved they weren't a flash in the pan, and GE was offering low pricing to entice customers. Western Pacific dumped the GP38-2 order and went and bought an equal amount of U23Bs. The U23Bs were purchased to retire the last of the WP's F-Units, which were traded in on them, and so they rode on EMD Blomberg B trucks.

Green Bay & Western was looking at buying Alco C415s to replace their old Alco RS-3s. Alco went out of business before they could be delivered though. Might have been for the best since the C415 was a less-than-stellar machine.

Penn Central planned to go back for more Alco C430s and C636s. NYC had been the largest purchaser of C430s before the merger, and some of the last new diesels delivered to PRR were fifteen C636s. Penn Central wanted more but Alco was closing the doors.

Erie-Lackawanna placed orders for both GP38-2s and U23Bs..like the Lehigh Valley's U23Bs, these were financed through a USRA loan. Shortly after the order was placed, E-L became aware that they were going to be rolled into Conrail and they canceled the order. For years, the myth has been spread that the E-L U23Bs were instead delivered to L&N but there is data that suggests otherwise.

Southern Pacific ordered three AC6000Ws from GE, probably a test run before comitting to more of the 6000hp AC machines. By the time they were built, SP existed no more, rolled up into Union Pacific, and so they were delivered in Armor Yellow and gray.

A really roundabout one: Conrail had budgeted to purchase 30 SD60Ms from EMD and had pulled the trigger when EMD introduced the SD70MAC. Conrail really wanted to try those, so they altered the deal to be 4 SD70MACs and 26 GP60Ms, so that the cost would match the amount budgeted. Then they decided they also wanted to sample GE's AC4400W, so the order became 25 GP60Ms, 2 SD70MACs and 2 AC4400Ws. Conrail places the order and EMD tells them that GP60 production was backed up with ATSF's big order. Conrail was in a power pinch and needed those locomotives yesterday, so they scrapped the whole plan and ordered 30 GE C40-8Ws instead.

Pittsburgh & West Virginia placed an order for two GP35s with low noses. But then the N&W/Wabash/NKP merger went through, which includes the P&WV. By the time they arrived, the P&WV no longer existed, and so they were painted in N&W colors. So ce this was still in the era of N&W ordering everything with high hoods, the two low-nose GP35s were an oddity.

When Central New Jersey needed new power to replace their aging F-M Train Masters, Alco had cooked up a C430P, which would have had high-speed gearing and a steam generator. The problem was that NJDOT had an agreement with the B&O that the railroad would underwrite the purchase of CNJ's new locomotives and would take them off the state's hands if the CNJ's commuter service folded up (The B&O controlled a majority share of Reading, who controlled a majority share of CNJ). The B&O insisted that the equipment that was purchased had be compatible with its existing fleet and the B&O hadn't bought a non-EMD unit since Baldwin went belly up, so they struck down the proposed Alco C430P and demanded that they be an EMD product. Alco lost the sale as a result and EMD delivered GP40Ps instead. There was also talk of SD40Ps riding on trucks off the trade-in F-Ms, but B&O really wanted 4-axle units.

New York Central placed a verbal request for Alco RS11s without any paperwork. Alco built 6 of them with high noses and painted in lightning stripes. They were delivered to Selkirk yard, where NYC then said there was no authorized paperwork for the purchase of the RS-11s and refused to take delivery. They sat at Selkirk for several months before D&H stepped up and bought them.

Milwaukee Road had purchased 5 EMD FP45s and placed an order for an additional 5. Then word of Amtrak's formation came down from on high, and Milwaukee Road decided they weren't going to spend money on new passenger units, so they scratched the second batch.

Clinchfield, with it's rugged terrain, wanted SD40T-2 "tunnel motors" for use. They placed an order for 10-15 of them, but then merged into Family Lines, who converted the order to regular SD40-2s.

After their earlier orders of SD40T-2 "tunnel motors", D&RGW tried to go back for another 30. By that point, EMD had moved onto the SD50, and convinced the D&RGW that they could replace five SD40T-2 with four SD50s.  The SD50s were noted as being "built to CSX spec", so either there wasn't time to develop an upgraded cooling system or they were completed units for a canceled CSX order. Whatever the case, they performed poorly in the mountains and tunnels and were quickly banished to elsewhere on the system.

The Baldwin Centipede was constructed early on with UP's proclivity for large steam locomotives being widely known. As expected, UP placed an order for some but Baldwin's long construction time hurt them. UP caught wind of the grief that other railroads were having with the Centipedes they had received and Union Pacific rang up Baldwin and told them to not bother.

The C415 was Alco's final folly. It wasn't a bad idea but maybe a little to early to the market. It was the oddball of the Alco Century series, the only model not laid out like a conventional road switcher. It was nearly a center cab, but the cab was offset to one end a little further than the other. Also, the hoods were not symmetrical, with the longer hood a little narrower and lower, and the slightly shorter hood both taller and wider. This was for packaging reasons, as one hood had a unique 1500hp 251 V8 under one end along with the main generator and traction motor blowers, while the other end had the cooling systemand air compressors. The engine was hooked to the compressors and cooling fan with a drivehaft that ran underneath the cab, a la the Bell P-39 Airacobra.

Alco intended for the C415 to be a replacement for worn-out earlier road switchers, like RS-3s and GP7s, and for it to be a building block for any sort of service: yard switching, transfer service, mainline freight, local passenger or commuter runs. So the C415 was offered with a dizzying array of options. It could be equipped with AAR Type B switcher trucks or Alco High-Adhesion trucks or Blomberg trucks taken off traded-in EMDs. There was choices for standard gearing, low-speed switcher gearing, or passenger gearing. They could be delivered with multiple unit capability, steam generators for passenger usage, or dynamic braking for freight-hauling in the hills. There were two fuel tank options, with a standard 1000-gallon tank for yard usage and an optional 1900-gallon tank for road switcher usage. Alco event went as far as offering three different cab heigh configurations: low at 14, feet 6 inches; mid-height at 15 feet, 2 inches; or high at 16 feet, 4 inches. The high cab was promoted as best visibility for switching and the low cab was intended for industrial customers with restricted clearances.

The idea behind it wasn't bad, but the market just wasn't there. Railroads weren't going to shell out big bucks for shiny new locomotives to stick in money-losing commuter operations or marginally-profitable branch line use when they could just grab some tired F7 or RS-3 and run it until it dropped dead. The transfer locomotive market never took off, if you look at the sales of Alco T6s, EMD TR8s and Baldwin DT-6-6-2000s. Which just left switching service, where it was up against EMD's SW1500. The SW1500's conventional nature was much more enticing to railroads, and it deeply undercut the C415 on price. The C415 was surprisingly pricey, thanks to all the parts unique to it, all the different options, and the fact that Alco was having to outright purchase all the GE electrical parts at full price.

Once in service, several issues with the C415 also reared their head. For starters, the V8 version of the 251 had some very weird harmonic issues that Alco was never able to really solve. They had applied balance shafts to the V8 when in development, but they were still prone to rattling themselves apart. Because the radiator was in one end and the engine the other, it had long coolant plumbing that was prone to developing leaks and burning up engines. The coolant reservoir was located in the center of the cab roof and poorly insulated, and the exhaust was routed up the cab wall, which resulted in a cab that was very hot. And because the cab was right over the top of the driveshaft, there were also a lot of vibrations in the cab. The driveshaft couplers were also known to fail, which meant that you lost your air compressor and your cooling fan.

They were all delivered with dual control stands, and with the driveshaft under the floor and the coolant tank in the roof, this resulted in a very cramped cab. The dual control stand took up most of the space in the cab, and there were only two seats, one on each side. The throttle and reverser were connected together, and when the engineer moved either of them, he hit the brakeman on the other side in the knee!   The square control stand took up all the room in the cab except for a narrow aisle across the front and back of the cab, and the two seats.  To walk from the front of the unit to the back, you had to walk up two steps outside of the cab, step in the door, step up another step and sit in one of the seats, swing your knees around to the other side, step down and walk across the front aisle and out the other door and down the two steps to the walkway

Having the prime mover and generator on one end and all the other stuff on the other end also resulted in poor weight distribution on the axles. Combined with a throttle that was oddly nonlinear, and this resulted in a machine prone to wheelslip. According to a gentleman who operated them on the Southern Pacific "Run 1-6 were very linear, and the units loaded quite well.  However, when the throttle was moved to run 7 at less than 8 or 9 MPH, the loadmeter would hit the peg and one or two axles would make a very quick spin, the wheel slip system would catch it and drop all the power, which would clear the wheel slip indication and ALL the power would come back on.  This pegged the loadmeter again and caused another spin and a jerk, etc.  A start from a dead stop with a heavy load could only be made by putting the throttle in run 6, then taking your hands off and sitting back.  About a minute later, when you looked out the window, you were moving. Once the speed got to 6 or 7 MPH, the throttle could be moved to Run 7, which pegged the loadmeter and threw out another cloud of smoke and fire, and the engine bogged down.  Finally the governor could unwind the load regulator enough so that the engine could rev back up.  After a couple of hundred more yards, Run 8 was possible, and it didn't cause the upset that going from 6 to 7 did."

The same engineer added that they pulled better running with the engine towards the train, and so they would turn them to pair them back to back. Configured so, and with an engineer who knew how to work the throttle, although they weighed 251,000 compared to the SW1500's 258,000, they would out pull them. The "outpulling" was proven one day when the Walnut Local came in from LA with 2 GP35s and about 75 loads of lumber. They couldn't get started after throwing the last of the switches, and called the Crest for help.  They were told "...we will send a hump engine (two 415s) down to pull you in."  What they thought they heard was "get two hump engines (off the engine track fairly close to them) and pull yourself in.  So, they cut off and headed for the engine track to mu the two units sitting there.  In the meantime, the hump crew came down through C-6, coupled onto the train and pulled it in. There was also some sort if odd incompatability with the SW1500s, where they didn't get along well when mu'ed in pairs.  A C415 and an SW1500 wouldn't pull anywhere near as many cars together as two of either Alcos or EMDs.

Ultimately, the C415 was a flop. It sold only 26 units, with Rock Island and Southern Pacific being the largest owners, with equal fleets of ten. Spokane, Portland & Seattle was runner-up, with two of them. It's said that SP&S had several more on order but, like GB&W's rumored order, Alco went out of business before they were constructed. The remaining four units were all one-ofs for their owners. Rock Island's 10 had mid-height cabs and Type-B trucks, and tended to stay around the Chicago area. Southern Pacific's 10 were ordered with high cabs and Type-B trucks, and worked around Southern California. Finally, Spokane, Portland & Seattle ordered their two with mid-height cabs and Hi-Ad trucks. Pittsburgh-area steel road Monongahela Connecting ordered the only unit with a low cab. A single unit was also sold to Chehalis Western with a high cab and Hi-Ad trucks.

In today's railroad atmosphere, which is much heavier on shortlines, the concept of the C415, a locomotive that can be configured however a railroad needs it, actually might have found some footing.

Two of Espee's high-cab C415s at Hacienda Heights with a local freight.

Two C415s on a local freight pass an SW8 headed into City of Industry with a caboose hop