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NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/25/22 11:37 a.m.

I've always found it interesting that while the Rock Island owned the most 4-8-4s in the United States, and eclipsed only by Canadian National (105) and a Russian railroad (140)  in the claim for the world, their 85 examples of the Northern wheel arrangement remain some of the least talked about and least photographed. The Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific purchased 65 of them from Alco's Schenectady works in 1929, class R-65a/b/c, and then in 1944 they purchased another 20 of a different design that was somewhat similar to the D&H's K-62 Northerns, classed as R-67s. 

 

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/25/22 11:53 a.m.

CRI&P R-65 #5036 with an unending string of refrigerated boxcars at Liberal, Kansas. As-built, the R-65s (#5000-#5064) were a fairly modern engine, with Baker valve gear, disc drivers, thermic syphons, Coffin feedwater heaters, and Chambers front end throttles, but had rather modest 69" drive wheels (only the Western Maryland's J-1s had shorter). They had a total weight of 738,300lbs, a total wheelbase of 88 feet, a 250psi boiler, 26" x 32" cylinders and generated 66,620lbs of tractive effort. The design's size and weight limited their operation to the Chicago-Des Moines corridor, the Chicago-Dalhart, Texas line, and the segment between Herington, Kansa and El Reno, Oklahoma. Later bridge-strengthening allowed these heavyweights access to new locales, and they pulled freight and passenger trains to Denver, Fort Worth, Tucumcari, and Minneapolis. In 1944, they all received 74" drivers, reclassing them to R-67 to match the new arrivals, an unknown amount received a trailing truck booster engine that added another 13,200lbs of tractive effort, and ten were the lucky recipients of a larger tender, roller bearings, and thicker driver tires.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/25/22 1:19 p.m.

The later R-67 Northerns were a more modern looking engine, with a closed-in pilot deck, a massive rectangular combined sand and steam dome, and a leaned-forward cab. They came with the same 26"x32" cylinders as the R-65s, but were delivered with Worthington feedwater heaters, 74" Boxpok drive wheels, a boiler rated at 270psi, and roller bearings on all the axles. They were also 8 feet longer, weighed 130,000lbs more, and had slightly more grate area, but had less superheating area.  Wartime restrictions on high-temperature alloys probably had something to do with that step back, although another possibility is that reported difficulties in maintaining Type E superheaters may have prompted the change. Someone appears to have forgotten to close the headlight lense on class leader #5100 in this photo taken at Joy, Kansas in June of 1946.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/25/22 1:51 p.m.

An exceptionally well-fired R-67 #5103, west of Mullinville, Kansas on June 22, 1951

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/25/22 3:16 p.m.

The R-67s closed out steam on The Rock in 1956. As noted by Joe Collias, Rock Island was viewed with suspicion by railfans when they began purchasing early diesels, like EMD SWs, TAs, FTs, F2, BL-2s, and E6s and Alco DL-109s and FA-1s, figuring that they would be like the Missouri Pacific and NYO&W or RF&P and banish steam rapidly and early. But then the Rock Island, despite these early purchases, held onto steam until around the mid-'50s, about on par with most other railroads. The R-67s had been placed in storage around 1952-1953, waiting for equipment trusts to run out, but in 1956 the accountants realized that the 5100s hadn't yet paid for themselves. Since they had them in storage, and they still had time left before they could be disposed of, they were dragged out of storage for one last summer and were assigned to any run that they were available to haul. At the end of that summer, having paid their dues and in need of overhauls, Rock Island sent every last one to the scrapyard. Not a single example of either the earlier R-65 or the wartime R-67s survives, meaning one of the largest fleets of Northerns vanished entirely. I've found a couple people who claim to have seen a photo of Rock Island 4-8-4 #5104, 4-8-2 #4013, and three Pacifics, #887, #905 and #938, all of them shined up and parked around around a turntable in late '56 or '57. The three Pacifics still exist in preservation but the Northern and Mountain are gone. The late date, cleaned-up appearance and survival of the three Pacifics seems to indicate that perhaps they were slated for preservation, but either the Mountain and Northern couldn't find someone willing to take them or there was some sort of miscommunication that resulted in their torching. Or the photo doesn't exist or the date was wrong. There is also mention of a 5100-series serving as a stationary boiler at Commonwealth Edison, so perhaps that's what happened. 

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/25/22 3:22 p.m.

CRI&P #5055 with the Golden State Limited at Dalhart, Texas, doing a mile a minute.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/25/22 3:28 p.m.

#5013 snakes a freight out of the Trenton, Missouri yard.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/25/22 3:30 p.m.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/25/22 3:31 p.m.

LS_BC8
LS_BC8 New Reader
7/25/22 6:48 p.m.

Got any photos of the 4-8-4's crossing the Sampson of the Cimarron ?

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/26/22 9:54 a.m.

In reply to LS_BC8 :

The one two posts up of the #5018 is coming off the Samson of the Cimarron bridge. This isn't a 4-8-4, but one of their 4-8-2s with the joint SP/CRI&P Golden State Limited. The GSL was Rock Island's attempt to compete with the ATSF Super Chief, Union Pacific City of Los Angeles and the CB&Q California Zephyr, but it played a distant fourth place for the entirety of it's existence. The Rock Island route was much less scenic than the competitors, the Golden State Limited was not as lavishly equipped with dome cars like its competition was, and it had a considerably slower timetable. Inaugurated in 1902, it lasted until 1968. The one advantage that the Golden State Limited did have was that they had a transcontinental sleeping car service between New York and Los Angeles on alternate days via an agreement with both PRR and NYC, although this only lasted between 1946 and 1951, and they also had a coordinated connection with the Nacionales de Mexico's El Fronterizo at El Paso, Texas that offered service down to Ciudad Juarez and Mexico City.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/26/22 10:54 a.m.

When the Golden State was upgraded to lightweight equipment, the passenger cars were painted in an orange and silver livery. While the Rock Island's diesel power for the train wore the standard Rock Island silver, maroon and red livery, Southern Pacific painted an A-B-B set of E7s in a unique orange and silver livery that matched the passenger cars as well. In 1946, the plan was for a much more luxurious train to operate over the route of the Golden State, tentatively named the Golden Rocket (as all CB&Q passenger trains were Zephyrs and Milwaukee Road was fond of Hiawathas, Rock Island named their premier trains Rockets) to compete with the Super Chief, City of Los Angeles, and California Zephry. It was to run a more aggressive schedule that would put it in line with its competition, and there were to be two sets of dedicated equipment, one purchased by SP and one by Rock Island. But, in the midst of an aggressive marketing campaign and as Pullman was delivering the new cars ordered by the Rock Island, Southern Pacific cancelled their order for their equipment set and pulled their support for the Golden Rocket. Rock Island had to scramble to pull the marketing, remove all Golden Rocket lettering from the passenger cars, and then used them to update the equipment on the Golden State.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/26/22 11:44 a.m.

Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific P-33 class 4-6-2 #938 at Limon, Colorado with a 3-car Rocky Mountain Limited. The Rocky Mountain Limited offered Chicago-Denver service from 1907 to 1937, before being replaced with the streamlined Rocky Mountain Rocket in 1939. Rock Island #938 still exists, one of the three surviving Rock Island 4-6-2s. It was under steam for the very last time on September 16, 1953 just before proceeding to Chicago's LaSalle Street Station for a press announcement of the Rock Island Line attaining its 100% dieselization goal (which would be undone in '56 with the revival of the 5100-series Northerns)

After retirement, #938 was donated for display on the grounds of Enid State School, a center for handicapped children in Oklahoma, in 1954, where it stayed for many years. It was purchased by the Fort Worth & Western Railroad in 1990 and trucked to Fort Worth with the boiler separated from the frame, with plans for a restoration that never happened. In 1995, it was sold to Illinois Railway Museum and moved to Union, Illinois. In 2014, the IRM Steam Team began needle-scaling and scraping the #938 for a definite cosmetic restoration, with a simultaneous assessment of its mechanical condition for an operational restoration. During the restoration, it was discovered that the #938 has the tender of sister engine #930 trailing it, which prompted some question on whether the #938 was actually the #938 or if Enid, OK had specifically requested the #938 and it had been unavailable so the Rock Island had dolled it up as #938 (Rock Island did the same thing with donated Pacific #886, which is really CRI&P #887 in disguise). It was determined that the engine was actually #938, but #930's tender had been swapped on at an unknown point. It was also discovered that main driver set on #938 is off CRI&P# 905, which is preserved in Duncan, OK, and that the #1 and #3 driver sets are from CRI&P #896. Ultimately, during the evaluation, it was determined that while the boiler was okay, the firebox wrapper sheet is thin and there are other spots that would need work, requiring replacement of the firebox. The smokebox was also found to need work, as the lower half was pretty thin. The cab floor was shot, but the actual cab itself was salvageable. Running gear was described to be "pretty tired", and the valves needed work, but were serviceable. The tender was determined to need the entire body replaced although the trucks and frame might be good. The cab backhead is bare and missing all the gauges and a lot of the controls, and the appliances needed work. IRM's final verdict was that it simply needed too much work, and keeping Frisco #1630 and J. Neils #5 operating while restoring Union Pacific #428 was enough work for the Steam Team, without throwing a very used-up Pacific into the mix. Sad, because it seemed the most likely chance of seeing a CRI&P steam engine operation and it is a very historically and locally important piece. It was ultimately cosmetically restored and is now tucked inside a building safe and sound though.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
7/26/22 12:26 p.m.

In reply to NickD :

The Espee!  Now we're talking.  

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/26/22 12:53 p.m.

CRI&P 4-6-2 #957 with one of the strange semi-Vanderbilt/semi-whaleback tenders, sometimes referred to as "Loaf of Bread" tenders by fans of the Mighty Fine Line. The Rock Island was the only owners of these bizarre tenders, with the story being that they were delivered with a standard Vanderbilt tender and to increase water capacity the Rock Island converted the bottom half to straight sides. 

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/26/22 3:30 p.m.

On of the Rock Island's rather handsome M-50a class Mountains with the Golden State near Liberal, Kansas. According to one source, the M-50s were updated in between 1941 and 1944 at the Rock's Silvis shops with roller bearings on the drive axles, Timken lightweight roller bearing rods, and disc drive wheels. And #4053 here appears to have been updated to an M-50a those lightweight rods and the second (main) driver set are Boxpok drivers with an intriguing drilled counterweight. The problem? The photo is dated as August 6, 1940. So either the date on the photo is wrong, the dates for the M-50a program are wrong, or the #4053 was an early guinea pig for the rebuild program.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/26/22 3:34 p.m.

A pre-rebuild M-50 Mountain, with a Mars light over the headlamp and footboards instead of a cast pilot, belches out a volcanic plume of smoke as it hauls what appears to be a mixed train near Sable, Colorado. Behind the locomotive is, in order, a baggage car, an RPO, another baggage car, and then a coach.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/26/22 3:37 p.m.

With 74" drivers turning and white flags flying on the smokebox, M-50 Mountain #4026 leads a 14-car troop train in 1943.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/26/22 3:41 p.m.

Updated M-50a #4054 crosses the Canadian River in Logan, New Mexico with the Golden State. Quite fitting since the side of the bridge not only has the Rock Island herald but reads "Golden State Route".  Again, the photo is dated 1940, and the engine has evidence of the M-50a rebuild program visible.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/26/22 4:36 p.m.

Another photo of an M-50 in mixed train service. Most of the time, your mixed trains were on shortlines and hauled by an old castoff Ten-Wheeler or Consolidation, so photos of a Class I mixed train with a 74"-drivered Mountain are pretty strange.

 

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/26/22 4:47 p.m.

Two of Rock Island's 2-10-2s thrash away on a freight east of Tucumcari, NM on February 25, 1940. Built with tall, for a Santa Fe at least, 63" drivers, they were restricted to 30mph because they had such hellacious imbalance issues

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/26/22 4:49 p.m.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/27/22 11:03 a.m.

The Rock Island's Rocky Mountain Rocket passes through Sable, Colorado, just a half hour out from it's starting destination of Denver on October 6, 1963. At Limon, Colorado it will rendezvous and recombine with the Colorado Springs, often hauled by one of those unique EMD AB6s that only the Rock Island purchased. CRI&P E7A #634 heads a meager consist of a baggage car, a diner, a coach and a sleeper. In two years only the coach and baggage car will remain, and a year after that, the Rocky Mountain Rocket will lose it's name and only go as far as Omaha, and then was cut back further to Council Bluffs. It was eventually renamed the Cornhusker but in 1970 it would be cut all the way back to a Chicago-Rock Island run, becoming the Quad Cities Rocket. It would finish out it's final days as a single bedraggled E-unit pulling two ramshackle coaches, often with an equal amount of passengers, making it's final run in December 31, 1978, two years before the Rock was liquidated.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/27/22 12:14 p.m.

A mix of an E7, an E8B and an FP7 leads the Golden State out of Chicago and under the Roosevelt Road bridge.

 

NickD
NickD MegaDork
7/27/22 12:17 p.m.

CRI&P #648 leads the four-car Rocky Mountain Rocket under cottonwood trees at Byers, Colorado, en route from Denver to Limon, Colorado over Union Pacific's formerly Kansas Pacific rails.

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