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NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/5/24 3:14 p.m.

I'll go a little further in depth into what I said about the EMD companion offerings ending in a 9. Ignoring the original GP9, any second- or third-generation EMD with a 9 as the last digit were offered as a junior model a turbo 12-cylinder instead of the turbo 16-cylinder of the EMD offering with a 0 at the end.

The first was the GP39. EMD introduced the four-axle, 3000hp, V16 645-powered GP40 in late 1965 and the six-axle, 3000hp V16 645-powered SD40 in early 1966. Then in the summer of 1968, they introduced the SD39, with the GP39 following a year later. The GP39 and SD39 rode on the same frame as the GP40 and SD40, respectively, but used a turbocharged 12-cylinder 645 rated at 2250hp. Neither of the -39 siblings were particularly successful, with the GP39 selling just 23 units across three railroads and the SD39 selling just 54 units across four railroads. Compare that to the GP40, which sold 1221 units, and the SD40, which sold 1268 units, and it's easy to call the GP39 and SD39 a sales disappointment for EMD.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/5/24 3:20 p.m.

In 1972, EMD rolled out the GP40-2 and SD40-2, which took the previous popular 3000hp locomotives, and added the new and improved Dash-2 electrical system to them. Apparently undaunted by the poor sales of the GP39 and SD39, EMD also rolled out a GP39-2 and an SD39-2 in 1974. Again, these were essentially identical except for replacing the 3000hp V16 645 with a 2250hp V12 645. The GP39-2 sold better than it's predecessor, with 239 locomotives sold, while the SD39-2 sold worse. Significantly worse. As in, while EMD cataloged the model and did technically offer it, none were ever built or ordered. Still, the GP39-2s sales were a pittance compared to the GP40-2 (1,143 units) and even smaller compared to the SD40-2 (3,982 units!).

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/5/24 4:40 p.m.

In 1980 EMD rolled out the GP50 and the SD50, which were to be a new generation of EMD product that would fix some issues with the preceding models, notably the SD45. When EMD had turned out the SD45 at the end of 1965, the only way to hit the 3600hp number they were aiming for from the existing 645 engine was to lengthen it to 20 cylinders, The early 20-645s had issues with crankshaft failures, and while that was fixed for the rest of the SD45 run and the entirety of the SD45-2's production run, they never quite escaped that reputation, as well as being branded as fuel hogs. EMD also never offered a GP45, since wheelslip control at the time wasn't capable of managing 900hp per axle (Alco didn't offer a C436 for the same reason and the GE U36B was known to be a slippery machine to handle) and the 20-cylinder engine supported by 4 axles would have induced murderously high axle loads. The GP50 and SD50 both used the 16 cylinder 645 but generated 3500hp by raising the operational RPM. EMD also introduced a number of other features that included a more advanced wheelslip system, a new microprocessor control system, a lighter weight but stronger frame, more efficient cooling and air filtration systems, and improved traction motors and alternators. The SD50 and GP50 would unfortunately suffer from engine failures as well, due to the higher horsepower per cylinder and the increased RPM and would develop a reputation as a problem child that they somewhat unfairly never recovered from (EMD put in significant effort to fix the shortcomings of the -50s, while GE's 100% engine failure rate on UP/MP C36-7s has been largely swept under the rug).

Two years after the GP50/SD50 rolled out, EMD also introduced the GP49 and SD49. These were rated 2800hp from a 12-cylinder 645, and they also included all the upgrades that the GP50/SD50 introduced, making them perform about on par with a -40 but with less fuel usage and a number of other upgrades. But, once again, there was a lack of interest in the "junior" model, and the SD49 failed to generate any orders, while Alaska Railroad bought the only new GP49s, with a total fleet of nine. EMD had also built six "GP39Xs" for Southern Railway (a GP39 uprated to 2600hp) and Norfolk Southern had EMD rebuild them to GP49 spec. Not stunning sales numbers, but the GP50 and SD50 didn't sell the best either, with only 278 of the four-axle model and 431 of the six-axle model sold.

 

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/5/24 4:51 p.m.

I already mentioned the GP59, which was the 3000hp 12-cylinder version of the 3800hp 16-cylinder GP60. And the GP59 did sell better than the GP49, with 36 GP59s produced. I can't determine whether there was an SD59 offered and no one bought any, or if EMD just threw in the towel on the six-axle model after the SD39-2 and SD49 failed to generate any sales. To address the issues of the 3500hp 645 in the GP50/SD50, EMD had moved to the new 710 engine, which was a 645 with a longer stroke. From what I've read, while the 16-710 was a good engine, and the 12-645 was a terrific engine, the longer stroke of the 710 engine resulted in the 12-710 being a boneshaker that tended to rattle the locomotive apart. Worth noting too, that in addition to the regular GP59, EMD also offered the cowl-bodied passenger version called an F59PH, and a more streamlined version of the F59PH called an F59PHI. These sold modestly well, with 72 F59PH and 83 F59PHIs.

 

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
9/5/24 8:25 p.m.

MSN.com: Top 10: world’s fastest steam trains 

I wonder what they thought as they where approaching and how it felt to go over crossings like these at 112mph+?

 

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
9/5/24 11:24 p.m.

Fastest Steam Locomotive in the world

You’re likely already aware that Mallard is the world’s fastest steam locomotive: it hit 126mph traveling down Stoke Bank on 3 July 1938 during a ‘test run’ for a new type of brake – a ruse devised by iconic engineer Sir Nigel Gresley to hide the real intention of the real purpose, to take back the world record from Germany.

Included in the seven-coach consist weighing 240,000kg (528,00 lb) was a dynamometer car which houses various equipment to record performance such as speed, power and tractive effort.

When the record was set, Mallard was just four months old so it was in the perfect condition for a high-speed run. The dynamometer car tracked the speed every half second on a paper roll moving 24 inches for every mile traveled, and speeds could be calculated by measuring the distance between the timing marks by staff. Both the dynamometer car and the precious roll have been preserved and both are on display at the National Railway Museum in York, alongside No.4468 which is one of six ‘A4’s to have escaped the cutters torch. Mallard last steamed in July 1988 (as seen in previous picture) and is unlikely to run again any time soon.

‘A4’ No.4468 Mallard – 126mph

 

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/6/24 8:27 a.m.

As far as I know, there was never a GP69 or SD69 offered, but there was the F69PHAC. It used a 3000hp 12-cylinder version of the 4000hp 16-710 in the EMD SD70MAC, but this was a cowl-bodied passenger prototype (the P in the name) with Head End Power capabilities (the H in the name) and AC traction (the AC in the name). They were built for the USDOT and loaned to Amtrak in 1990, sporting Phase III paint. They were returned to EMD and later used with the German ICE train demonstration that was on loan to Amtrak in 1992–1993 for data-gathering on the Acela design. The two F69PHAC locomotives were again returned to EMD, where they were finally retired in 1999. Both units were later sold to National Rail Equipment Co., and were reported to still exist, albeit in derelict condition.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/6/24 9:26 a.m.

The final -x9 locomotive was the SD89MAC. By the early '90s, EMD had pushed the 710 engine as far as it could go, with about 4000-45000hp in V16 form and 5000hp in V20 form. The 710 engine was a stroked 645, which in turn was an overbored 567, so despite a lot of improvements and redesigns over the years, the basic design dated back to pre-WWII. The race was on for a 6000hp single-engine locomotive, and so EMD developed an entirely new engine, the four-stroke (remember, a 567/645/710 was a two-stroke diesel) 265H or 1010 engine. Officially the engine used the 265H name, with 265 designating the size of the bore in millimeters, but since it displace 1,010 cubic inches per cylinder, a lot of people used the old EMD engine naming system and called it a 1010.

EMD envisioned the 265H engine as the future and decided that rather than offer the V16 710-powered 4000hp SD70MAC and the V16 265H-powered 6000hp SD90MAC alongside each other, they would consolidate the parts bin. The SD70MAC would instead be replaced by the SD89MAC, which would use a 4500hp V12 265H. They built a single SD89MAC prototype, EMD #92, and it was a clunky, ponderous-looking machine. Unfortunately, the 265H engine never really panned out, with horrid reliability issues delaying it's release to the point where EMD was shipping SD90MACs with 4300hp 16-710s in them with the option to have them upgraded to 6000hp 16-265H power once the engine was sorted out. The 265H engine failed to gain market acceptance, beeing basically relegated to the dustbin of history. The SD89MAC never sold a single unit, none of the "convertible" SD90MACs were ever upgraded, all of the 6000hp machines were downgraded to SD70MAC specs or retired, and while EMD/Progress Rail offers the SD70ACe-T4 with the 12-265H and Tier 4 emissions compliancy, sales have been tepid to put it mildly.

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
9/6/24 10:11 a.m.

MSN.com: The Union Pacific Big Boy: Still The World's Most Powerful Steam Engine

Today I Just Learned that Big Boy is on a Midwest victory tour which started from Cheyenne, WY and should now be in Cedar Rapids, IA. Anybody nearby should try to see it rumble by. smiley

Heartland of America Tour Union Pacific Steam Schedule

 

 

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/6/24 10:55 a.m.

Similar to how a model ending in a 9 (other than the GP9/SD9/F9) was a turbo 12-cylinder version of turbo 16-cylinder locomotive, models ending in an 8 (ignoring the GP18/SD18) were a Roots-blown 16-cylinder version of a turbocharged 16-cylinder locomotive. While EMD offered less models of these, they overall sold much better than the 9s.

The first was the GP28 and SD28, which rolled out in 1964-1965. These were based on the GP35 and SD35 but lacked the turbocharger, which downrated them from 2500hp to 1800hp, essentially making them an update of the old GP9/SD9 (1750hp) and GP18/SD18 (1800hp) using the new angled-roof Spartan cab that GM introduced on the -35s and used until the last Spartan cab EMDS, the regular SD70. While likely a better locomotive than the GP35/SD35, which were plagued with mechanical and electrical issues from the old 567 prime mover, D32 generator and D67 traction motors being stretched to their limits, the GP28 and SD28 sold poorly. The GP28 moved just 31 units, with 15 of those being export units, while the SD28 sold just 12, with half of those being SDP28 passenger variants exported for Korean National Railways. Compare that to 1334 GP35s and 360 SD35s. The reality was that with the U25B, GP35 and C425 all hitting the market, railroads were finally accepting higher horsepower locomotives and 1800hp was just too low for most buyers (GEs U18B and Alco's RS-36 similarly failed to find buyers), and for your shortlines and regionals that needed something with less horespower there was now a glut of older first-generation road switchers being replaced by these new higher horsepower second-generation units that were more affordable than new power. Ironically, later in life, quite a few GP35s had their turbos removed to reduce maintenance, making them basically GP28s.

Three years later, EMD revisited the idea with the GP38 and SD38. Based off the 3000hp GP40 and SD40, they used a Roots blower in place of the turbocharger and developed 2000hp. The GP38 and SD38 proved to be much more successful than the GP28/SD28, with EMD selling 706 GP38s and 108 SD28s. Also, later in life, plenty of GP40s had their turbos removed and were converted to GP38 spec, as the GP40s were supplanted in mainline duty by newer power.

EMD revisited the idea once more, when they offered the GP38-2 and SD38-2. The SD38-2 was a relatively low seller, with only 90 of them sold, but the GP38-2 was a smash hit, selling 2264 locomotives and becoming the gold standard of shortline and regional power, as well as secondary power for Class Is. 

EMD never moved forward with the concept, so there was never a GP48 or GP58, but I know some Class Is deturboed their GP50s and called them "GP38-3s", since they were rated at the same 2000hp as a GP38/GP38-2.

 

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/6/24 12:35 p.m.

In reply to VolvoHeretic :

Unfortunately, living in the Northeast means nothing like that ever comes around here. Well, I guess that's better than living in the PNW, who has now been told twice that the #4014 is going up there only for UP to scrub the PNW leg both times due to traffic concerns. You'd think that they'd make sure they have the capacity to handle the #4014 up there before they make the big announcement and get people's hopes up, but that's Uncle Pete for you. At least living out here, I don't get my hopes up that the #4014 is coming this way and then get them dashed by it being canceled. And honestly, having seen some of the hair-raising driving and other irritating behavior by railfans during relatively smaller events, like any of the Reading #2102 trips, I'm not sure I'd want to put up with people trying to get photos of #4014. 

I do keep hoping that maybe CPKC will bring the #2816 down the old D&H to Albany with the Holiday Train this year, or that maybe CSX will do some sort of trip with the #2716 once it gets running and bring it up this way, but I'm not holding my breath.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/6/24 2:10 p.m.
VolvoHeretic said:

MSN.com: Top 10: world’s fastest steam trains 

I wonder what they thought as they where approaching and how it felt to go over crossings like these at 112mph+?

I can tell you that even at 15mph, in the engineer's seat of a steam locomotive, it feels like you're flying, between the wind through the front cab door, cinders, pounding of the air compressor, and the banging of the suspension as you go over switch points. I couldn't imagine what it would be like at 60mph, let alone 100+mph. As a note, usually when getting ready to hit diamonds or a switch, you usually backed off the throttle so that it didn't go into wild wheelslip from the temporary loss of traction.

The topic of "fastest steam locomotive" has always been hotly contested. The Pennsylvania Railroad always swore up, down, left and right that they had set the record with E2 Atlantic #7002, at 127.1 miles per hour near Elida, Ohio on  June 15th, 1902 but that claim has always been believed to be suspect. Primarily this speed was based solely on two passing times recorded by separate observers at two different points (AY Tower and Elida) just 3 miles apart, and it is difficult to obtain even a general indication of a train's speed from signal box registers. Were the observers watches synchronized? Had there been any sort of track realignment that could have resulted in a "short" milepost? It's just not a very precise method. Also the #7002 was also a saturated-steam 4-4-2 hauling a full-length train of heavyweight passenger cars that were fully loaded with passengers, and that's just not enough locomotive to hit that kind of speeds. 

The issue with Mallard's claim is that, as those familiar with the British rail system like to point out, it was set on a downgrade portion of track (and supposedly a lot of Britain's speed records with steam locomotives were all set there) with a long 0.57% downgrade followed by a 0.75% downgrade section. That'd be like trying to say that a record set at a fictional downhill portion of Bonneville is as valid as those set on the level part of Bonneville. It also was taken off the train at the next station due to damage to the valve gear, so if running at those speeds damaged the engine that quickly, is it really capable of those speeds?

I think the German claim to 125 and change is probably the most accurate. It was a verified speed, it was done on level ground, the speed was maintained for long periods of time, and the locomotive suffered no damage. 

There's been some other American claimants, but either they were never verified or the claims were of dubious validity. Milwaukee Road folks point to the Class A 4-4-2, which was recorded at low hundred-teens, but that's a long ways from 126+. The F-7 4-6-4s potentially had the capability but it doesn't seem that there was any verified attempts. Milwaukee Road did operate some real speed-demon schedules though, and there was the famous "Slow to 90mph" sign before a diamond at Rondout, IL, which indicates that they were running some serious MPH. I've heard some Pennsy diehards swear that the S1 6-4-4--6 Duplex did 156mph, unverified of course, but I don't buy it, it likely would have flung the Walschaerts valve gear apart at those speeds. The PRR T1 has lots of stories of pegging the 120mph speedometer, and it had 80" drivers and poppet valve valve gear that A) could have properly filled and exhausted cylinders at those speeds and B) wouldn't have had an eccentric shaft to fling to pieces at high speeds. I could see the T1 having the capability.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/6/24 2:14 p.m.

Perhaps the most repeated story of a PRR T1 came from Pennsy fireman John Crosby:

Early in 1948, Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR) President Martin W. Clement announced that "by May of this year we expect all our important east-west passenger trains will be diesel-electric powered west of Harrisburg."

True to his word, hordes of pin-striped diesels began to arrive from La Grange, Eddystone, Erie, and any other place that could slap together a diesel locomotive.  It seems that the Pennsy, in its rush to dieselize, bought them all.

With the arrival of the new power, it was not long before the Pennsy's T1 Locomotives, then only three or so years old were relegated to pulling secondary trains.  I was firing such a run between Fort Wayne, Indiana and Crestline, Ohio, and return.  Even our unglamorous trains, many bereft of names, now regularly sported diesels on the head end.

The best evidence of this was the way passenger engine crews dressed for work.  Most of us had discarded our work shirts, overalls, and bandanas in favor of slacks and sport shirts.  Some of the old-timers persisted in wearing their Oshkosh or Carhartt overalls, but they were looked down upon as hopeless fossils by we of the younger crowd.

While I had joined the slacks and shirt crowd, in the bottom of my grip I still carried a pair of goggles and gauntlet gloves. 

On the day in question, my engineer and I were awaiting the arrival of No. 43.  The train was due into Crestline at 2:25 p.m., and was a typical secondary train of that era.  The normal consist was about 14 cars of storage mail, Railway Express, and Railway Post office cars, a combination car and two coaches.  The train originated in Pittsburgh and wound up in Chicago, making stops every 25 miles of so.  On this run, the only significant revenue was produced on the head end, not in the coaches. 

About 1:45 p.m. we received word that number 43 was running some 45 minutes late, and was steam powered.  We were being assigned a class T1, and would we kindly get ourselves on the No. 5536. 

Reluctantly we walked out of the roundhouse and searched for our engine.  Way over on a back ready track we found it. 

What a pitiful sight!  The engine and tender were coated with thick layers of grime and soot.  At any place where steam was discharged, either by design or accident, streaks of gray dripped downward.  Someone had cleaned off the numbers on the side of the cab.  This had been done in such a fashion that each number looked as though it was in an oval frame.  To verify ownership, the flanks of the tender proudly displayed the letters PENNSY.  The LVANIA was totally covered by dirt.  The rubber diaphragm between the cab and tender was in shreds or missing.  On the engine, various inspection covers were missing, giving it a curiously hollow appearance.  The casing around the stacks was gone and they showed up quite clearly.

I had anticipated the cab would not be very clean so I scrounged up a large ball of cotton waste.  Climbing up into the cab confirmed my suspicions that it was a filthy mess.  About the only clean spot was the engineer's seat where the hostler had sat while coaling up the tender.  Harry, my engineer, using the privileges of seniority, remained on the ground and hollered up to me to get him a long oil can.  I handed him one and began to get busy with my cleaning.  It was quite evident that this engine had been sitting around for some time with the cab windows open to the elements and whatever dirt happened to be in the area.

I turned on the injector, then the squirt hose, and tried to wash down all the dirt that I could dislodge with water.  While I did achieve some degree of success, there was still a lot of dirt in the cab as harry climbed up the ladder.  He was very careful not to touch any place I happened to miss in my cleaning operation.  He spent a few minutes wiping off his seat, and the various valves and levers he would be operating. 

Satisfied with his efforts, he sat down and began testing the air brakes, whistle, bell, water pump, etc.  While he was busy with his chores I got the fire ready.  Surprisingly, considering how long the engine had been sitting around, the fire was in fairly good shape.  It did not require much to get it to my liking. 

We were now ready to back down to the station.  Harry turned on the bell, gave three short blasts on the whistle, opened the cylinder cocks, then cracked open the throttle.  We started to back up, blowing out large amounts of water through the open cylinder cocks.  At Riley Street I saw that the dwarf signal governing our movement off the ready track to the running track was displaying "restricting," allowing us to continue our reverse move.  We continued to back eastward until stopped by the signal guarding access to the mainline.  We sat here for some time until we heard the unmistakable sound of a Pennsylvania chime whistle.  No. 43 was finally in town.

A few minutes later, a pair of bedraggled K4's slipped by on their way to the roundhouse.  As soon as they cleared the interlocking, I could see the switch points flop over for our movement; this was followed by the signal changing from "stop" to "restricting."  I called the aspect to Harry and we backed down to the train, rumbling across the tracks of the Big Four's Cleveland to Columbus mainline.

As we coupled onto the train, I noted that our conductor was standing on the platform with a clearance card stating that No. 43 had no train orders.  He also let us know that today we had a total of 15 cars, all heavyweight.  It was quite obvious that his major concern was that of maintaining as much distance as possible between himself and the filthy locomotive. 

The car inspectors coupled the air and signal hoses, and then the steam heat connectors.  Harry ran the air test while I fed coal to the fire.  At 3:40 p.m., 1 our and 15 minutes late, the communicating whistle peeped twice and we were finally on our way.  Harry turned on the bell, opened the sanders, and gently pulled on the throttle.  With a T1, you did not yank open the throttle unless you wanted the engine to slip, sand or no sand.  We slowly began to move, again rumbling over the Big Four diamonds (Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago & St. Louis Railway or CCC&StL which became the New York Central).   At about 20 mph, Harry made a running brake test.  He released the brakes and opened the throttle a bit more.  We had a 4-mph speed restriction around an "S" curve through the yard.  Once clear of it, Harry got down to business and the tired old 5536 began to accelerate just as its designers had intended.  [Keep it mind the T1s had rotary cam poppet valves].

In spite of its cruddy appearance, this engine was still in good mechanical condition.  As the speed increased, so did the flow of cinders, grime sand and dust, and other debris into and out of the cab.  Evidently, there were some nooks that I had overlooked in my cleaning efforts.  It was indeed fortunate that I still had my goggles available.  While our eyes are protected from the flying dirt, I cannot say the same for our slacks and sport shirts.

Bucyrus was our first stop, only 12 minutes west of Crestline.  We drove into the station in a cloud of sand and dust, and blue brakeshoe smoke.  After a few minutes, during which mail, express and a few passengers had either been unloaded or loaded, we started another dash to Upper Sandusky, Ohio, all of 18 miles farther west.  This was followed by stops at Ada and Lima.  During the Lima stop, we filled the tender to its 19,000-gallon capacity.

The farther west we went, the better the T1 performed.  Our speed easily passed 90 several times.  Now, before anyone reading this gets excited about the speed mentioned, and cites the fact that the legal speed limit for passenger trains on the Fort Wayne division was 79 mph, let me quote the road foreman at the time, on James A. (Pappy) Warren: "If you can't make up time without worrying about the speed limit, I'll get someone who can."

Our last scheduled stop was in Van Wert, Ohio.  Again, Harry drove into the station, making a precise spot so that the various mail and express carts did not have to move far to find an open door.  He called me over to his side of the cab and said, "Johnny, this may be our last chance at one of these beasts.  What do you say about seeing just what she'll do between here and Fort Wayne?"  As he spoke, I noted that his face was completely covered with dirt, except for the two white circles behind his glasses. 

My deferential reply was, "You're the boss.  My side of the cab is still attached to yours."  He nodded in reply to my answer, and issued a warning.  "You'd better get your fire ready, 'cause we're going to move out of here."

With this bit of information, I began to work on my fire.  I grabbed the No. 5 scoop shovel and filled the back corners of the firebox.  I shut off the stoker jets and ran a big ward of coal into the firebox, right in front of the firebox doors.  When finished, I felt satisfied that I was ready for what was to come.  

With the first peep of the communicating whistle, Harry turned on the bell and sanders.  A second later came the second peep.  He cautiously opened the throttle.  The first six or so exhausts were relatively gentle "chuffs" as we began to move.  One of the exhausts blew a perfect smoke ring.  When Harry was satisfied that we had a good supply of sand under the drivers, he pulled open the throttle a little farther.  Until then, the sounds of the exhaust had been drowned out by the sound of the whistle, but no more.  The exhaust began to snap and crack out of the twin stacks.  The presence of nearby warehouses and lumber yards created a pronounced echo effect so that each exhaust was multiplied as it bounced back and forth from building to building.  This was the ultimate in stereo.  With the heavy throttle, the engine began to rock slightly from side to side.

We rounded the curve at Estry Tower, and now between us and Fort Wayne lay 31 miles of perfectly straight track.  As soon as we cleared the Cincinnati Northern diamond, Harry pulled the throttle wide open.  The engine began to quiver, and it was easy to note the acceleration.  With a good supply of sand, there was not a hint of a slip, although I did note that Harry kept his hand on the throttle in anticipation of such an event.  As the speed built up, he began to move the reverse lever from the corner up towards center, in effect shifting from low to high gear.

The busy U.S. 30 crossing slipped by with the speedometer showing 78 mph.  Soon the needle showed 86.  In spite of the large demand for steam, I had no problem maintaining 300 pounds of steam pressure.  This was not necessarily due to my prowess as a fireman, but rather to the fact that the engine was a free steamer.  I cracked open the firedoors to check the fire.  I was satisfied to note that its color was bright yellow-white.  The coal that I had put into the back corners and in front of the fire door was long gone.

Dixon is the location of a cast-iron post indicating Ohio on one side and Indiana on the other.  We did not have much time for reading as we were now running at 96 mph.  Harry had now moved the reverse lever to within just a few points of being vertical.  He was kept busy blowing for road crossings.  At our speed, there was not too much time from the passing of a whistle post until the crossing showed up. 

We bounced straight through the Monroeville crossovers at 108 mph, with the needle still unwinding.  West of town we hit 110.  The "T" still had reserve left.  The only problem we had was with dirt and soot.  This was compounded by coal dust from the tender. 

At Maples the speedometer needle quit moving.  We were now covering a mile in 30 seconds - 120 mph!

We blazed by Adams Tower with the engine and tender each trying to go their separate ways as they passed over the crossovers and siding switches.  The tower operator beat a hasty retreat as the breeze we created tried to blow him over.  Clearing the interlocking, Harry applied the brakes and pulled our speed down to a more respectable 80.  We slipped into town, stopping at the coal dock for a load of coal.  With the tender full, we made our final dash of a mile to the Fort Wayne station. 

Arriving there, we got off and headed downstairs to the crew room.  The passenger crew dispatcher, Chet Glant, met Harry as he turned in his timeslip.  "Harry, the dispatcher wants to talk to you upstairs."  So without cleaning ourselves, we both went up to the dispatcher's office.

The dispatcher eyeballed us, shaking his head in wonder.  Somewhat sarcastically he asked, "Which one of you two clowns has a pilot's license?"  He paused for dramatic effect and continued, "You guys were certainly flying low today.  According to your timing by Estry and Adams, it took you only 17 minutes to cover 27miles.  Now my math is nothing to brag about, but that averages out to something like 95 miles per hour, and that from a station stop."

Neither of us offered any comment.  He looked at us for a few moments and closed with the admonition, "Don't do this again."  As we walked out he grinned and added, Good job, guys."

The did turn out to be my last trip on a T1.  With the proliferation of diesels on passenger trains, there was little call for maintaining much of an extra passenger board.  About the only business was that of pulling dead, or nearly dead, Baldwin diesels. 

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/6/24 3:08 p.m.

Of course, when it comes to videos of steam locomotives really hauling, these two are my absolute favorite. 

ATSF #3751 just doing highway speeds without even breaking a sweat.

 

And UP #844 really flying, with some great pacing. The amazing thing is that some of those grade crossings seem really rough, and the pilot truck just about comes off the rails.

 

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
9/7/24 11:30 a.m.

In reply to NickD :

The UP 844, that's just crazy.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/9/24 9:43 a.m.

Everybody's favorite Van Sweringen Berkshire, and arguably one of the most famous North American steam locomotives, Nickel Plate Road #765 celebrated her 80th birthday yesterday. The 69" drivered 2-8-4 rolled out of the Lima Locomotive Works factory on September 8th, 1944, joining a fleet of near-identical engines that eventually numbered 80 in total. Retired on June 14, 1958 and preserved as "NKP #767" at Fort Wayne, Indiana on May 4, 1963. It was restored to operation in 1979, and other than a lengthy overhaul fromm 1993-2006, has been pounding the rails ever since. It's one of the few regularly-running big excursion stars (ATSF #3751, SP #4449, UP #844, UP #4014, and N&W #611 all run pretty sporadically) and has hauled excursions on two separate Class Is (NS and CSX). It's currently settled in on the Indiana Northeastern, hauling frequent excursions under the "Indiana Rail Experience" banner. 

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/9/24 11:24 a.m.

Why was the #765 donated to Fort Wayne disguised as NKP #767? Well, during the '30s, Fort Wayne had an issue where the busy NKP main line was snarling up traffic on the north side of the city and stunting growth and development of the city. As part of a decades-long joint effort between the NKP and the city of Fort Wayne, the NKP main line was elevated and all the grade crossings were eliminated. As part of the ribbon-cutting for the new elevated mainline on October 4th, 1955, NKP had Berkshire #767 present for the ceremony.

When NKP retired their steam locomotive in '58, they actually held onto a lot of them and were even overhauling plenty of them at Conneaut as reserve power in the event of a traffic surge. The #767 was not part of that program though, because after rearending a Wabash passenger train in 1951, the #767 had developed a lot of issues that were indicative of deep underlying running gear or frame problems. The traffic surge never materialized and around '63, in the leadup to the N&W/NKP/P&WV/Wabash merger, NKP began getting rid of the stored steam locomotives, either through scrapping or donation. Fort Wayne requested the donation of the #767, but the #767 was found to be in very poor shape, since it hadn't been overhauled in '58 and it had suffered 5 years of outdoors storage and vandalism.

NKP decided that rather than spend the time and money cosmetically restoring the #767, they would instead remove the number plates and swap them over to the #765, which also had not been rebuilt but had avoided years of outdoor storage and was in much better shape. The #765, disguised as #767, was donated to Fort Wayne and placed on a panel track on Lawton Park on May 4th, 1963. And as far as Fort Wayne knew, they had gotten the real #767. NKP was so set on keeping the swap secret that they even renumbered the real #767 to #765, so that no one saw an engine in storage with the same number as the engine sitting at the park. And at roughly the same time the "767" was installed at the park, the real #767 was hauled to Chicago for scrapping, meeting its end sometime in 1964.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/9/24 11:38 a.m.

The #765, in it's #767 disguise, being removed from it's home at Lawton Park for it's restoration to operation in 1974. That's ex-PRR EMD NW2 Penn Central #8665 doing the honors, with a gondola hooked in between to spread the weight on the temporary tracks that were laid for the move. Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society members had prepared the locomotive for movement by lubricating fittings, packing journals, and repairing the air brake system. When the locomotive was moved onto former New York Central trackage the #765 actually applied it's own emergency brakes. It was found that the "Silent Watchman", a special feature that recognized when the pony wheels derailed, still worked after sixteen years of disuse, and the poorly-maintained Penn Central rails had caused the pilot truck to dip down enough to activate the system and dump the brakes into emergency.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/9/24 11:53 a.m.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/9/24 11:59 a.m.

Restored to operation and to it's original number, #765 rests on the ready track at the former NKP roundhouse in Belleveue, Ohio, the morning of July 28th, 1980. The engine was powering a fantrip to Muncie, IN.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/9/24 12:11 p.m.

And, back in 2016, the #765 temporarily ran as #767 for a while.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/9/24 1:50 p.m.

On the subject of locomotives in disguise, Southern Railway 2-8-2 #4501 spent the weekend as "GM&O #4382" for Tennesee Valley Railroad Museum's Founder's Day Weekend. There was a real GM&O #4382, which was a 1918 Mikado built by Baldwin for the Chicago & Alton Railroad, as class L-3. When the Baltimore & Ohio took control of the Chicago & Alton in 1931, it kept it's road name and number but was reclassed to as a Q-7. B&O released the C&A to the courts in 1942, and in 1944 it was bought and merged into the Gulf, Mobile & Ohio, which had only come into existence 6 years earlier as a result of the merger between the Mobile & Ohio and Gulf, Mobile & Northern. The #4382 again kept it's number, and it kept the Q-7 classing, but had the GM&O lettering applied.

TVRM also had their GM&O RS-1 on display for the weekend as well. The GM&O theme was chosen, since this year marked the 45th anniversary of the GM&O dieselizing.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/10/24 12:07 p.m.

I will say that it always amazes me how rare photos of actual GM&O steam are, especially considering that the GM&O operated 3000 miles and stretched all the way from Chicago to New Orleans and Mobile. Not like it was some small, obscure shortline. But likely it wasn't helped by the fact that GM&O retired their last steam locomotive in 1949, pretty damn early. And, all but one of the GM&N/M&O/GM&O's steam locomotives were scrapped. A couple Mikados and another Pacific escaped immediate scrapping by the GM&O, being sold to Paulsen Spence's Louisian Eastern, only to be scrapped after his death in '62.

That surviving GM&O engine? Well, that's a pretty famous one. It's now better known as Reading & Northern #425, but she was built for the GM&N, then became part of the GM&O, then was sold to Paulsen Spence, and then passed through a couple different owners before the R&N ended up with it in '85. That round logo on thee tender and the road lettering on the coal bunker are based on the original GM&N logo and lettering even, although she was not painted blue back then.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
9/10/24 12:14 p.m.

GM&O did have a pretty stunning, and rarely color-photographed, 4-6-2 with red cylinder jacketing, cab, domes, and tender. It actually belonged to the Chicago & Alton, and then the GM&O ended up with it when the GM&O bought out the Chicago & Alton in '44. It still wears "The Alton Route" slogan on the tender sides and it's C&A number, but it has GM&O lettering on the tops of the coal bunker.

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/10/24 12:44 p.m.

In reply to VolvoHeretic :

It stopped 8-miles from our hometown. Fortunately I got to see it in Nola a couple years ago though. 

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