Grassroots Railroad Sports?

LS_BC8 said:

E&LS has an RS-12 that they mate up with a Geep for passenger specials.

They also have the last two Baldwin RF-16s (the last Baldwin cab units, period), D&H #1205 and #1216, tucked away indoors. They've owned them since 1979, although they barely operated them. They bought them off Michigan Northern, and then shortly afterwards one grounded out a traction motor and the other blew up it's prime mover. Last time they were outdoors was 2012, although someone snuck into the building they are stored in and snapped a bunch of photos a few years back. The owner says he purchased the parts to make them operational but says the cost is too significant, but once he dies, they'll go to a museum. I guess it's good that they are going to be preserved, but when you've owned them for 40 years and never done anything with them, why not sell them to a museum now and maybe you'll see them restored and operating before you die? Also that whole "they will be donated on my death" situation scares me, because I've seen plenty of those go south, where the kids sell everything off to the scrapyard or the scrappers swoop in and take what they aren't supposed to.

I actually kind of like the babyfaces. Maybe it's the stepped roof.

Of course, any time you mention Baldwin, you have to talk about the DR-12-8-1500/2, better known as a Baldwin Centipede. This was actually Baldwin's first entrance into the diesel-electric road locomotive market, being introduced in '45. Up to this point, they had only made diesel-electric switchers. Since they had no experience in the diesel market, they fell back on their joint electric locomotive construction with Westinghouse. The result used a pair of cast-steel half-frames that were articulated in the center. Integrated into those frames were two rigid-mounted 4-axle trucks with all 4 axles powered. Attached to the outer end of the half-frames was a 2-axle unpowered floating truck, to guide it through curves. So, it had 12 axles, 8 of them powered, laid out in an electric locomotive-esque 2-D-D-2 configuration (if you made it a steam engine, it would be a 4-8-8-4, so this was the diesel equivalent of a Big Boy). For propulsion, it used two 1500hp De La Vergne Engines, for a total of 3000hp. Hence the name: Diesel Road, 12 axles total, 8 axles powered, two 1500hp engines.

This is a photo of the bare frame, to help make it clearer.

Of course, that unbroken string of wheels resulted in the nickname "Centipede". When combined with it's 593.71 ton total weight, it also resulted in massive tractive effort: 205,000 pounds starting and 105,600 pounds continuous. They also had a total length of 91 feet, making them larger than any diesel on the market at the time. The whole deal was topped with their Babyface carbody, the first application.

The first demonstrator pair would actually go out and tour on the Union Pacific, a wise choice considering UP's love for large and powerful engines. UP would not buy any though. And most railroads were likely scared off by the size and weight. Instead, the only purchasers would be Nacional de Mexico, Seaboard Air Line and Pennsylvania Railroad, for a total of 54 locomotives produced. PRR's 24, which would be the largest fleet, were semi-permanently coupled as A-A sets, resulting in a single 6000hp, 24-axle, 1200 ton locomotive that was over 180 feet in length.

They were essentially obsolete on arrival, with every other manufacturer having settled on the conventional frame over two pivoting trucks. PRR originally hoped to use theirs in long-distance high-speed passenger usage, as did SAL. But the extreme weight of the locomotives meant that they beat the daylights out of the infrastructure when run at speed, and they were not reliable enough to keep a timetable. While the huge power and tractive effort would have made them excellent an excellent drag freight hauler, they lacked dynamic brakes, so they struggled to slow trains on downgrades. They also lacked M.U. connections of the front and had Baldwin's odd air throttle, so you could only hook a pair of them back-to-back and that was it. If you needed more power, you either had to put run a second set of locomotives with a second crew, or you had to replace these on the front of the train entirely. A disgusted PRR demoted theirs to helper duty on Horseshoe Curve and shoving cuts of cars at hump yards, but since the running gear wasn't designed for pushing, they were prone to derailing. In addition, these had the issues that would become oh so typical of Baldwins. Each one was built essentially custom, so between units the wiring, air lines and fluid lines were all in different locations and layouts. Coolant leaks and oil leaks were frequent, and because Baldwin didn't run any wiring inside conduits, this resulted in a number of fires. The De La Vergne engines also required constant fiddling.

SAL and NdeM ran theirs on trains that only required a single unit, and even later configured theirs with electric throttles to play nice with other units, as well as overhauling the engines and uprating them to 3200hp a piece. While PRR's were parked in '58, they were reactivated in '60, although by that point quite worn out, and then retired for good by 1962. SAL retired their fleet in '64 and NdeM would scrap theirs in the late '60s. 

As wild as the DR-12-8-1500/2 was, the original 1943 concept was even crazier. And more of a mouthful. Called a Baldwin 4-8+8-4-750/8-DE, it used the exact same frame design as the Centipede. But instead it used eight transversely-mounted De La Vergne 408-series V8 engines, each rated at 750hp. Each of these engines had their own generator, with that generator powering a single axle. The engine and generator were designed as a "power package", mounted on a skid with self-contained radiators, electrical cabinets, and other auxiliaries. These power packages were designed so that they could be changed out in as little as 20 minutes. 

The concept did have its advantages in that, if you lost a generator or engine, you only lost an eighth of your propulsion power and still had plenty to get home, unlike other diesels where you lost 50% or 100% of power. But the cost of such a locomotive would have been astronomical and there would have been a lot of parts to maintain. After all, 64 cylinders, 8 generators, 8 radiators, 8 electrical cabinets, etc.

To their credit, Baldwin did actually build the damn thing. Numbered #6000 (a reference to its horsepower, perhaps?), it used a front end that was even closer in appearance to EMD's bulldog nose. Probably a bit too close, which was why we got the Babyface afterwards. It only had 4 of the planned 8 power packages installed, with plans to install the rest later after shakedown and demonstration runs. You can also see the modular construction in the sides, where each power package could be removed.

Soon after its construction, Baldwin dismantled the locomotive, getting rid of the body and power assemblies. Judging by the limited photos of it, it most likely never went out and toured on any railroads. Perhaps Baldwin realized it would be too expensive or too much troublesome? The frame was reused under the very first DR-12-8-1500/2 though. 

This photo is particularly puzzling. It has the nose of a production Centipede but the body appears to be that of #6000, with its multitude of portholes and segmented panels. Could this be #6000 in the process of being converted to SAL #4500? SAL #4500 doesn't have all those portholes though, and has grilles that aren't present on the #6000.

The Frisco, actually named the St. Louis-San Francisco Railway but rarely referred to as such, is a line that I admit to not really ever paying much attention to. But after reading The Search For Steam, Joe Collias' writing has me taking a second look at them. While their motive power was really large or innovative, their steam engines were largely possessed of uncluttered lines, kept spotless and given doting care. 

For example, take little #185 here at an Vernon, TX in 1951 with a single combine and a single coach. Built by the Pittsburgh Locomotive Works in 1899 for the Kansas City, Birmingham & Memphis, it was run through Frisco's shops in 1929 and thoroughly modernized. A superheater was added, the Stephenson valve gear was swapped for lightweight Walschaerts, Nicholson thermic syphons were added to the boiler, it was converted from a dome throttle to a front mount throttle, Coffin feedwater heaters were tucked inside the smokebox and they were changed from coal-burning to oil-burning. Add to that a centered headlight with a visor, that tapered smoke stack, and the usual Frisco touches of a freshly graphited smokebox, polished nickel cylinder caps and gold lettering and striping on the dome, cab and tender, and the little 68" drivered American Standard type is a jaunty-looking engine. After this rebuild, the #185 and 5 of her sisters served the Frisco faithfully until 1950-1951, when they were retired.

Frisco #186 heads west with train #303 out of Wichita

#184, exemplifying the Frisco's clean and well-polished style, at the yard in Memphis in 1940.

#183 on display by the Frisco at Monett, MO. It's absolutely dwarfed by the big 4500-series Northern coupled behind it.

In reply to NickD :

Doesn't one of the museums run an ex-Frisco locomotive on most of their trains?

In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :

Illinois Railway Museum runs Frisco #1630. It's a light Decapod that was actually built for Russian railroads post-WWI. When the Bolsheviks took over and couldn't afford to pay their bills, the US government instead allocated them to US railroads. I know that Erie ended up with a ton of them, same with Frisco.

Frisco #1522, one of their 4-8-2s, was also a mainline steam star from 1984-2002, before being parked indefinitely due to rising cost of operations. To date, #1522 is the only Mountain ever restored to operation in the US. She is also noted to have been incredibly loud.

Look at the level of polish on the bell of 4-8-2 #4301. Rebuilt from some very disatisfactory 2-10-2s, the 4300-series Mountains were terrific engines, although plagued by cracks in the boiler near the end of their life.

The 4200-series Mikados were some serious bruisers. At the time of their construction, they were the biggest and heaviest Mikados constructed. They would lose that title in '32 when Great Northern constructed their O-8 Mikados, but they were still an impressive machine. Also noteworthy is that these engines were the only new steam locomotives delivered in 1930. Frisco actually tried to cancel their construction, but Baldwin had already sourced the materials and begun construction. Operated in a relatively remote segment in the Ozarks, the 4200s were rarely photographed.

Frisco #4300 hard at work. Look at the box car that appears to be keeling over directly behind the tender. Wonder what is going on there? Sag in the track? Some sort of harmonics going on with the car?

Looking like it was just delivered, this Baldwin-built Northern is actually a year old in this 1943 photo. Even with all the hustle and bustle of WWII, Frisco still kept them shiny.

I believe the Chicago and Illinois Midland had the last 4-4-0s built.

Frisco 4-4-0 #183 at Springfield, MO. According to Frisco historians, those things on the outer edge of the cab roof are actually a set of air horns. They were installed during the rebuild and removed not long afterwards.

LS_BC8 said:

I believe the Chicago and Illinois Midland had the last 4-4-0s built.

Yes, they had the last 4-4-0s built in the US for US markets. The three were built between June of '27 and August of '28 and were used for hauling C&IM's minimalist Springfield-Peoria passenger service. #501 was sold for scrap in the late '40s, and #500 and #502 were scrapped in '53. While they were more modern than the Frisco engines, they were lacking in the cosmetic department.

The last 4-4-0s that were in general revenue were a trio of 1889-built Canadian Pacific 4-4-0s, #29, #136 and #144. They were operated on the Chipman branch until 1959, due to a bridge with very light axle loadings. 

I can only find one photo, emblazoned with a huge watermark, but Dayton-Goose Creek Railroad, in 1921, ordered a 4-4-0 from Baldwin that was superheated and had a Vanderbilt tender. I think, no, I'm certain this is the only 4-4-0 built with a Vandy tender.

Another 4-4-0 oddity was PRR's D16 class. Before the Civil War, the lead truck on steam locomotives was rigid mounted. It did not pivot or swing or articulate in any way. As locomotive wheelbases got longer, that didn't work so well. The swing link lead truck was patented in 1862, and widely accepted by the 1870s and continued through the end of steam locomotive production. But PRR, from 1895-1910, produced 426 American Standards with a rigid lead truck and flanges on all 4 axles. And then, even when they rebuilt and upgraded them to D16sbs in 1914, retained the rigid lead trucks. Kelly Anderson, chief mechanical officer of Strasburg says #1223 is the only 20th century engine that he can recall ever seeing with a rigid lead truck.

Some #1225 for 12/25