Grassroots Railroad Sports?

Nick, I keep seeing this on Ozark Mountain. What is a "genset locomotive"?

In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :

They're one of the new "green" locomotives. They run multiple engines, with each engine running it's own generator (typically 3 engines and generators). The idea is, if you are moving the locomotive around light or shifting a single car or two, you fire up one of the engines and you have 500hp. Then if you are moving a few more cars, you can fire up another generator set and now you have 1000hp. Coming to a grade or the cars are loaded now, you can run all the engines and have 1500hp. The idea is that you can tailor the amount of horsepower on hand to match whatever your needs are and save on fuel and cutdown on emissions. Think of it kind of like a Displacement-On-Demand or Active Fuel Management system. The problem is, they're really expensive currently. A lot of Class Is have a surplus of older power, like SD40-2s, that they can use for yard or branch work for cheaper than the cost of a Genset. Same with shortlines and regional lines, it's cheaper to just go buy an old used EMD. Yeah, they use more fuel, but it'll take a long time for the fuel savings to offset the cost. And for mainline work, they are all on the small end (1500hp seems to be around the max).

In reply to NickD :

Ah ok, yeah the concept seems solid, but 1/2-mill for a loco pieced together from old parts with a shiny new prime mover setup is a bit steep. 

In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :

Especially for who they seem to be marketed for.  I'm starting up a shortline that will be handling small carloads, I can either buy an old EMD SW1200 for $80k or a genset for $500k. Hmmm, I know which I would buy.

In reply to NickD :

All I really got from this was that a used SW1200 is a lot cheaper than I anticipated. If I ever hit the lottery, there will be no more MODEL trains...

In reply to TheRX7Project :

I found an SW1200 on Facebook Marketplace a few months back for $85k. Rumor was, $40k could have taken it.

The final word in restomod locomotives was the FL9ACs, nicknamed "Starships".

In the early 1990s, Metro North and Long Island Rail Road were both operating a fleet of ex-New Haven/Penn Central EMD FL9s. The dual-mode diesel-electric/electric F-units were rather useful for their ability to run straight into Grand Central without an engine change, and their small profile meant they didn't have clearance issues that some new equipment would have. The downside was the FL9s were showing their age and at only 1750hp, they were lacking in power compared to some of their stablemates, like the F40PH and GP40FH-2Ms. 

So, they began a limited rebuild program of their FL9s. The original rebuilder was supposed to be Republic Locomotive Co. in South Carolina, and the first two locomotives to be converted were shipped down there around 1993. Partway through the program, Republic Locomotive went bankrupt and those two, along with another eight, were delivered to ABB Traction in Elmira, NY. The first locomotive to be rebuilt cost around $10 millions, and the remaining nine were not much cheaper. 

So, what did all that money buy? The original Roots-supercharged 2-stroke 1750hp 567D1 V16 was replaced with a brand new turbocharged 2-stroke 3000hp 12-710G3A V12 for starters, to get it on par with other Metro North equipment. Also, AC traction was just starting to hit the market, and with promises of more power, better traction and lower maintenance costs due to less moving parts. Amtrak was testing an AC-converted F40PH and a pair of prototype F59PHACs and EMD's SD70MAC and GE's AC4400CW freight locomotives were just around the corner. So the decision was made to make the FL9s run on AC traction using Swedish ABB generators, inverters and traction motors and Micas computers. The locomotives were also extensively rewired, the old EMD control stands were replaced with the newer SD40-2-style "desktop" controls and a number of other improvements.

Renamed as FL9ACs and nicknamed "Starships" for being so advanced, they at first seemed to be exactly what MNCR/LIRR wanted. But they quickly proved unreliable. The EMD 710 engines, which were just a bored and stroked 567, were not the problem. It was the alternating current traction system. The computer controller in particular seemed prone to packing it in. One engineer said he recalled watching the computer power off and reboot every time they hit a grade crossing. They were also the proverbial 10lbs of E36 M3 in a 5lb bag, making them difficult to diagnose and work on. None of the remaining FL9s were converted and instead the newly introduced GE P32AC-DM, the dual-mode Genesis, was purchased by Metro North moving forward (the P32AC-DM was also replacing Amtrak's remaining FL9s at the same time).  After less than 10 years in service, the FL9ACs began being parked by Metro North, while the regular uncoverted FL9s soldiered on. 

In '05, all ten of the stored FL9AC Starships were cut up for scrap, although the 710 engines were salvaged and resold.

Sadly, LIRR #301, one of LIRR's two FL9ACs, was formerly New Haven #2000, the very first FL9 produced.

A Conrail-operated FL9 with a passenger train at Brewster, NY in 1977. A lot to unpack here. If you look at the trucks, you can see the third-rail shoes for electric operation. Also, the thing that looks like a speaker over the cab is the Hancock air whistle. Looks like an ex-Reading "blue line" passenger car behind the locomotive, with a Delaware & Hudson coach immediately behind that. The blue and yellow paint scheme that looks an awful lot like VIA Rail is actually the mostly-forgotten Penn Central commuter scheme that they used that matched the Metropolitan Transit Authority colors. The yellow also seemed to fade to white rapidly, as many photos of Penn Central FL9s show them with a white, blue and black scheme, which is really a faded nose section and the blue wearing off to expose the Penn Central black. Why is Conrail, a freight only operator, operating a passenger train? When Amtrak was formed in '71, they took over intercity passenger service, but railroads were still contracted to provide commuter service. Between its formation in 1976 and Metro North's formation in '79, Conrail operated New York City commuter trains and continued some other passenger operations as late as '83, a mostly-forgotten footnote in history.

A very tired-looking Conrail FL9 (there's that faded nose section I mentioned) stops at Brewster to pick up passengers headed to GCT on 4th of July weekend. They are just disembarking from the Conrail-operated RDC that brought them from Dover Plains. 

Conrail #5059, the last FL9 and the very last F-unit built, leads a train through Croton Falls. Fortunately, while the first FL9 is gone, NH #2059/PC #5059/CR #5059/MNCR #2033 survives at the Railroad Museum of New England in its final configuration.

The FL9 was honestly a poor business decision all around. They were a good, reliable locomotive, they lived long lives, and they worked surprisingly well considering they were the first mainstream application of dual-mode operation. But they made no sense all the way around.

The original concept for the FL9 was not for it to be a dual-mode locomotive. The FL9 was originally planned by EMD as a conventional diesel-electric. The L stood for lengthened and it was 4 feet longer than the FP9, which was in turn four feet longer than a regular F9. EMD intended to market the locomotive as a long-range passenger locomotive for western routes and used the 4 feet of extra length to cram in an even larger water tank for the steam generator, so that it wouldn't have to stop for water top-ups as frequently. To support the added weight of the large water tank, EMD installed a single A1A truck under the back, giving it the unique B-A1A wheel configuration, shared only with the Fairbanks-Morse C-Liner. Why EMD was trying to market a new niche passenger locomotive in '55/'56, as passenger service was declining and railroads were cutting back on service, I have no clue. Looking at sales, the FP9 was already selling poorly, with only 90 units compared to the predecessor FP7's 381 units. Unsurprisingly, no railroads bought the FL9 in it's planned configuration.

At the same time, New Haven was under the ruinous management of Patrick B. McGinnis. He had some sort of issue with the electric freight operations on the New Haven between New Haven and New York, and wanted to tear down the catenary and get rid of the electric locomotives. Financial consultants had done studies and said that as long as the wires were up, it was cheaper to run them and the railroad should just upgrade the Cos Cob generating plant, but that advice was ignored. McGinnis put all the big electric freight motors and the older passenger motors out to pasture and tore down most of the catenary, other than the stretch from New Haven to NYC. They held onto the GE-built EP5 passenger motors, which were known to be very troublesome, but still needed locomotives they could run into New York City on third rail power. 

Originally, New Haven was in talks with Fairbanks-Morse for F-M to provide them with a dual-mode locomotive. At this point in time, EMD had yet to get New Haven onboard as a customer. New Haven had ignored the FT/F3/F7 for the Alco DL109 and FA, and had preferred Alco PAs and F-M C-Liners over the EMD E-unit for passenger usage. They had Alco RS-3s and FM H-series road switchers running around, but not GP7s. At this point in time though, Fairbanks-Morse was on life support, so EMD stepped in. I have also read a rumor that EMD basically threatened New Haven to buy locomotives from them or GM would stop shipping cars to New England over the New Haven. No clue if that is true or not.

EMD took the customerless FL9, ditched the larger water tank and used the space to cram in the gear to allow it to operate in straight electric mode and installed third-rail shoes to allow it pick up power from the third-rail network. Early models were also delivered with a small pantograph on the roof for operating under the wire, although that was dropped on later models. New Haven purchased 60 of them, spending money that they really didn't have. This was a common theme of McGinnis' management: he spent money that the railroad didn't have on cost-cutting measures that ended up costing the railroad more money than they saved. While the dual-mode operation worked flawlessly and eliminated an engine change at New Haven, the FL9 was considerably underpowered compared to the electric motors they replaced, to replace one EF-3 took three FL9s and it took two FL9s to replace and EP-5. The FL9s were also more expensive to operate than an either a diesel-electric or a straight electric locomotive, as they had a diesel engine onboard to feed and maintain plus the added electric electric operation gear to maintain.

EMD offered the FL9 to both the New York Central and Pennsylvania Railroad, since they were both doing the same engine change song and dance as New Haven, but clearly they felt that the expense of new locomotives wasn't worth the money and time saved, as they continued hauling trains into Manhattan behind P-Motors and GG1s, respectively. New Haven, after going bankrupt partially due to the purchase of the FL9s, ended up backtracking on the de-electrification program and purchased used GE E33s from the Virginian and restrung the wires, completely eliminating the reason for the FL9s purchase. And once the Penn Central merger went through and everything ended up under the same roof, Penn Central still frequently used P-Motors to get into GCT and GG1s to get trains into Penn Station, despite having access to the FL9s. When Amtrak took over passenger trains, they ran the FL9s on the New York Central trains along the Hudson but would change them out for E8s and then F40PHs at Croton-Harmon.

So the FL9 failed to sell in its original configuration, never caught on with any other railroad lines, it never really saved any money or eliminated the electrification on the New Haven, and it only briefly eliminated engine changes to enter Grand Central. And yet they lived on for 50 years and changed hands a number of times, went through numerous rebuilds and caused GE to offer a replacement locomotive.

I also saw where someone was alleging that in the late '60s/early '70s, EMD proposed a dual-mode SD40, in a similar manner to an FL9, for the Milwaukee Road to use on their Pacific Coast Extension to replace their aging electric locomotives. I can't find any other source to confirm it, so no clue if that's true or not. They said Milwaukee Road turned it down for the same reason that the FL9 wasn't really a money-saver: It was more expensive to maintain and operate than an electric locomotive but with less power. Also, they really didn't reduce the fleet amount. An EF-5 Little Joe Electric made 5500hp and an SD40 made 3000hp. So it would take two dual-mode SD40s (I'll refer to it as an SD40DM, although I don't think it had an official designation) to replace a single Little Joe. So instead of a a 2-for-1 reduction (One SD40DM for a Little Joe and an SD40) it was really a 2-for-2 trade (2 SD40DMs for a Little Joe and an SD40). Also, the infrastructure likely wouldn't have been able to support them. At the time, they were running 12,000-15,000hp worth of SD40s on the front of a train and then coupling on a Little Joe to take them through the mountains. Trying to run 21,000hp off the wires in a localized area would have caused rolling brownouts and tripped breakers at the generating plant. And if you run 2 SD40DMs off the wires and the rest in diesel mode, well then you really aren't getting your money's worth out of those fancy dual-modes. Also, Milwaukee Road's ruinous financial conditions and their move to de-electrify the PCE likely killed the program as well. Still, an SD40 with a pantograph on the roof would have been intriguing.

Again, this is all hearsay though. I can only find one person talking about it and no official mentions. Does that mean its not true? Not necessarily.

B&O Railroad Museum announced they have completed their cosmetic restoration of #51, a EMC EA. It was built in 1937, only 7 years  after General Motors had acquired Electro-Motive Corporation, and had yet to rename it to Electro-Motive Division. #51 was the very first E-unit built and was also the first streamlined diesel-electric locomotive in the US. Before this, they had either been unstreamlined box-cab switcher locomotives or streamlined power cars that were part of a semi-permanently coupled trainset. #51 was the first diesel-electric that was streamlined and it's own separate locomotive. B&O owned 6 A-B sets of EAs.

As an early EMC product, it uses the old Winton 201A engine from GM's Cleveland Engine Company. Two 900hp V12s, to be exact, with a weird belt-drive for accessories like the radiator fans and traction motor blower fans. Somewhere along the line, it lost the original sloped pilot with stainless-steel trim for an F-unit style pilot and it had much of the sides replaced with aluminum. In the early '50s, B&O sent in their EA/EBs to EMD to be rebuilt with derated (900hp each, to match the old generators and motors) 567 engines and E8 bodies, resulting in something called an E8am. B&O actually sent the #51 to EMD and EMD basically said "Do you know what this engine is? Are you sure you want to do this?" EMD convinced B&O not to irrevocably alter the #51 and set it aside for preservation. The generators and traction motors were removed and installed in a new E8 to save money, but the Winton 201As, which were already obsolete, were left in it because they were essentially worthless. The locomotive was then moved to the B&O Railroad Museum and used as a display piece.

The locomotive was one of their better-maintained pieces, but electrolytic corrosion was causing the aluminum body panels to start crumbling, so the museum recently moved it into their shop and launched an extensive restoration, installing new body panels that were primed and painted on both sides, and restoring it to the as-delivered stainless steel trim and pilot design, and uncovering the original paint scheme underneath to better match the color and design to original. They just unveiled it yesterday, and it will be stored inside their roundhouse.

Will it ever operate again? Solid no. The Winton 201A engine family was obsolete by the '50s and has absolutely zero support, and the #51 has two of them, in a twelve-cylinder configuration as well. But, wow, is it beautiful to look at, with that outrageous angled prow, stainless-steel trim, frenched-in headlight and the cool teardrop-shaped numberboards.

U.S. Military caboose in Germany.

No idea .....

Poor's Manual of Railroads was published annually from 1868 to 1924.

Fond du Loc train station - 1959.

The Durand, Michigan station on the old Grand Trunk Western is an absolutely mental structure.

Photos of it are rare but the train station at Oneida, NY was fascinating. The double-track main underneath is the New York, Ontario & Western. The track topside is the West Shore Railroad, but between Oneida and Syracuse the Oneida Railroad operated a third-rail interurban car over the West Shore Line.