In reply to NickD :
I'm sorry I just have to interject because I read "Spongebob Squarecabs" and when I googled it, this came up and I laughed for a solid minute.
In reply to NickD :
I'm sorry I just have to interject because I read "Spongebob Squarecabs" and when I googled it, this came up and I laughed for a solid minute.
The poor ergonomics of the GE is interesting to me. To the uninformed observer that I am, I almost get a sense that EMD had better ergonomics because they were owned by a parent company that made cars. They would know something about sitting in a small space for long periods of time and maybe some of that transferred over in knowledge or design philosophy. GE meanwhile made...what do they make? Lightbulbs and microwaves? Did they have any other sort of products that would require operators to spend long hours in them?
No idea, just spitballing.
slowbird said:In reply to NickD :
I'm sorry I just have to interject because I read "Spongebob Squarecabs" and when I googled it, this came up and I laughed for a solid minute.
The squared-off rooftop and nose is just weird looking. But, yeah, once you add the yellow hood, the nickname becomes apparent.
slowbird said:The poor ergonomics of the GE is interesting to me. To the uninformed observer that I am, I almost get a sense that EMD had better ergonomics because they were owned by a parent company that made cars. They would know something about sitting in a small space for long periods of time and maybe some of that transferred over in knowledge or design philosophy. GE meanwhile made...what do they make? Lightbulbs and microwaves? Did they have any other sort of products that would require operators to spend long hours in them?
No idea, just spitballing.
That's honestly a good point. GM also made buses, which are an even bigger case of people sitting in one place for a long time.
Since the GE Dash-8s were prone to catching on fire, and the parent company also makes appliances, GE Dash-8s are frequently called "Toasters". That nickname is also applied to the EMD AEM-7s just for their shape.
The boys at the T1 Trust, who are building an all-new PRR T1, shared this photo. I knew a T1 was one big SOB but I didn't realize they were only 10 feet shorter than a Big Boy (the engine is shorter but it has a huge coast-to-coast tender). Now, supposedly a T1 had less travel restrictions over the PRR system than an M1 4-8-2. The T1 Trust also says they already have agreements to run at Steamtown in Scranton, Cuyahoga Valley Scenic in Ohio and Steam Railroading Institute in Owosso, Michigan.
In reply to NickD :
It's going to be so amazing if they pull this off!
In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :
I was admittedly a little dismissive at first. Then I got reading their website, and realized these guys had a solid plan all laid out before they even began bending steel.
Their next step is casting the frame. The originals were cast in one-piece but they say there are no longer any foundries large enough to do a one-piece casting. They found one that can do a 60-ton pour, but that only results in a 30-ton part, and a T1 frame is 44 tons. So they think they are going to cast it in multiple pieces and then weld it into one.
I'm curious how it would be operated at Steamtown. They only have a 100ft turntable and roundhouse stalls, and I know the Nickel Plate #765 crew said the summer they ran out of Steamtown, they had to grease the rails every time to get it to negotiate the curve to the water tower and coal tipple. My guess is they would run it up to Moscow with a diesel on the other end of the train and then tow it back to Scranton with the diesel, and then use a bucket loader and a water tank truck to refill it.
They also plan to take #5550 out to the FRA's high speed test facility and take a crack at the steam locomotive speed record. The official record is held by the Brits, with LNER #4486 Mallard at 126mph. There are engineers who swore they did 120mph with T1s, and with 80" drivers, rotary cam poppet valve gear and lightweight rods, they have the stuff to do it. The Brits will be peeved though, they're mighty proud of that record.
In reply to NickD :
They'd probably end up with an asterisk by that record if the new T1 breaks it.
In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :
There should be an asterisk there anyways, since they did it on a downgrade.
PRR always tried to claim that they had the record, set by E2 Atlantic #7002, at 127mph. But that was not an official record, it was a rough estimate done by calculations from two observers with pocket watches at two signal towers. And there are some doubts it would go that fast hauling an entire loaded passenger train.
Well, Western Maryland Scenic Railroad may have C&O 2-6-6-2 #1309 fired up, but it appears she is going to be all dressed up with nowhere to go for a while. Not because of the virus, but because the WMSR has to do some roadbed upgrades. Mainly, the FRA is mandating that they replace 50,000 ties between Cumberland and Frostburg, to the tune of $2 million, before they let them run the Mallet according to this news article. Also, already seems like everyone is playing "hot potato" with the issue.
Allegany County is saying they already give the WMSR about $140k a year, and the County Commisioner is quoted as saying “I didn’t know the whole thing needed replaced. I’m not sure where they will get the money to replace them. That is a lot of money", which seems like they are firmly putting it in WMSR's court.
Meanwhile, the Frostburg mayor, who is on WMSR's board is saying the mainline belongs to Allegany County and that aging ties are “not the (WMSR’s) fault. We don’t do anything to make them go bad. Time takes its toll. Weather is hard on the railroad ties and they don’t mend themselves. The state highway (administration) has to repave roads. We need a program that, every year, we do a couple of miles. But we have to get the work done. We want to work with the county. A regular maintenance program has to be put into place.”
The tie condition really isn't a new issue and WMSR was made aware of the tie issue back in 2019 during an operational audit done by the county. The first six pages (of 30) are all dedicated to the tie condition. The FRA had already slapped a few 10mph slow orders on the railroad due to the condition of ties. Most of the ties date back to the Western Maryland/Chessie era in the '80s."This should not be interpreted as that the railroad is now unsafe, but should be considered to be fair advance warning that the track is inexorably inching closer to being slowed down to a crawl over longer and longer sections. This will impact schedule times, operating costs, and visitor impressions as the train runs slower and slower and the trip becomes even longer from Cumberland to Frostburg and return. Based on the sample tie inspections and the remaining life observed in the inspected ties, there is no more than a 2-5 year window before enough ties have deteriorated to slow the railroad down to FRA I over the majority of the line, due to intermediate tie condition. Relatively high percentages of the ties are now in the ‘five year remaining life’ category; still holding spikes but likely to be defective by five years out."
Even more concerning is the fact that the WMSR only has one guy on-staff that is a qualified track person, performs track inspections and does spot repairs. They don't have a hi-rail truck and it was unclear how regular track inspections required by the FRA for passenger service are being conducted. Their only ballast tamper had numerous hydraulic leaks and was in poor condition and out of service. Their tie crane is operational but is unable to climb the grade out of Frostburg. So, if the WMSR tries to replace all the ties themselves, it's going to take a long, long time, and they've already started the clock ticking on the #1309's flue time by firing it up.
The operational audit also does not paint a pretty picture of the WMSR in general: the rails are starting to show wear on the curves that needs to be addressed, there is still concerns on whether they can get #1309 on the turntable, most of the scenic lookouts are so obscured by trees and brush that you don't get a good view of the valley, they lack open-air cars and retired the converted baggage car that kind of operated as an open-air car, and their diesel fleet was severely depleted, with only one operational GP30, #501. Their Plymouth switcher had a broken crankshaft and their other GP30 had wheel flanges worn too thin and then was cannibalized to keep #501 running. They've acquired an F40PH since the audit though.
Back when UP was restoring Big Boy #4014 to operation, I remember reading people asking how far east #4014 would be coming, and people were lambasting them for asking that because "you could never fit a Big Boy anywhere east". Obviously, you couldn't run it on the NYC Water Level Route, but there were some big engines on the eastern lines, like N&W Y6b 2-8-8-2s and B&O EM-1 2-8-8-4s. But the better point that someone made was, the locomotives were built in Schenectady, NY and shipped west as complete engines, and they hadn't demolished every engine along the right of way then. And #4012 had been moved up to Bellows Falls, VT at Steamtown USA, and then back down to Scranton, PA, and again, they hadn't had to knock down every building along the tracks. I remember wondering just how they moved #4012 up to Vermont and back at the same time but then never looked into it. And then, I stumbled across photos the other day, while paging through a local photographer's stuff.
The Boston & Maine, part of the Guilford Lines at the point, hence the Big G logo, hooked a GP39-2 at both ends with a bunch of empty flatcars and boxcars in between the #4012 and the diesels, so that the weight was spread out when crossing bridges. Boston & Maine moved it to Mechanicville, NY, then the D&H moved it from there to Binghamton, NY. At Binghamton, Conrail took over and ran it over the old DL&W to Scranton, including posing on Tunkhannock Viaduct for photos.
This photo is of it crossing the D&H's Harpursville High Bridge, in Harpursville, NY, with the photographers standing on the D&H's Penn Division bridge. The Harpursville High Bridge is still there, but the closer bridge was torn down when the Penn Division was abandoned in '86. Interestingly, this was possibly the third time #4012 had crossed this bridge, as the Big Boys may have been towed through Harpursville/Binghamton after leaving the Alco factory at Schenectady (the D&H used 4-6-6-4 Challengers, so they had the clearance for bigger engines than the surrounding lines), and there are photos of #4012 in Binghamton in '62 after Nelson Blount purchased it and was having it moved up to Steamtown USA
The movers arriving at Bellows Falls
Sneaking through Bellows Falls
And a quick bearing check at Westminister Station, VT. Despite having sat for 20 years, they reportedly had no issues with hot journal boxes.
Before they fired up #4014 two years ago, #4012 was the Big Boy that had racked up the most mileage post-1960
Posed for photos on the old DL&W viaduct at Tunkhannock.
Our little local railroad today. Florida Gulf and Atlantic. Moving 20 cars, mostly tank cars, north at about mile 67, downtown Havana.
On the subject of moving large engines over foreign rails. After WWII, the PRR was enlisted by the War Assets Administration to help move six 4-6-6-4 Challengers from St. Louis to Indianapolis. The big Challengers had been part of a Union Pacific order but had been diverted to the Denver & Rio Grande Western by the War Production Board. After the war, the War Assets Administration sold the six to Clinchfield Railroad and so they were assigned to eastbound trains by various railroads to work them over to Columbus, Ohio to be delivered to Clinchfield Railroad.
The PRR ran into the issue of the tenders being too tall for their water plugs. So, to be able to water them, the PRR crews at Rose Lake had to cut holes in the back of the 25,000 gallon sisters and then weld a boxlike gutter to the back. It made spotting them under the water plug a difficult and precise task.
Showing the changing mindset at the PRR, the PRR did not run a single test or make a single comment on the performance of these engines, just ran them east and handed the keys to N&W crews. This was a railroad that only a few years prior had tested a C&NW 4-6-4, a N&W J Class 4-8-4, an N&W A Class 2-6-6-4 and a C&O T1 2-10-4, and would have tested a C&O H-8 2-6-6-6 if C&O had been able to spare one. A few years, maybe even just one year, earlier and PRR probably would have held onto one for a while and tinkered with it and run it at Altoona. But by this point the writing was on the wall and they were more interested in electrics and diesels.
The molten iron was poured into an open hatch on the car and then a plant switcher moved it to the pouring point. The car was operated by power cables, which were plugged into the car's electric motor. The hot metal runs were operated inside a single yard, however there were few cars that moved between separate plants.
In reply to 914Driver :
I stumbled upon a vid of these cars in motion a few months ago & you could see a slight glow on some of them!
Nick, could this be the GRM RR equivalent of a party barge?
In reply to Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) :
I don't know what that thing is but it looks delightfully scary. Needs an LS swap.
In reply to 914Driver :
Those are frequently referred to as ladle cars, thermos bottles and torpedoes. They are rarely spotted, mostly because they tend to be stay on the steel mills' internal railroads, which are usually fenced off and don't let people wander around.
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