Grown up decision time (work related)

I need a little advice. I know you lot have nothing better to do than give yours so here goes.

Recently I was approached by a competitor and was asked to consider leaving my current employer and working with them. After they found out who I was and asked around a little they became pretty aggresive in trying to get me to at least talk to them. To the point that they actually seen me driving down the street in my company vehicle and followed me to my jobsite.

Today I gave in and went in for an intervue. The owner of the company was there as well as the production manager. We talked for a little over an hour and I came away very impressed with the company and the vision they have for the future.

My current employer however is taking very good care of me. The issue is I am not a huge fan of the product we use (really, really dislike) and they don't have a very good name in the industry. I consider it third rate product with third world technology. I don't like how the company is ran at all. I've been with them for around ten months.

My wife is really pushing for me to stay. She is very concerned that I will be working all the time agian, we will be losing money and I'll grow sick of this place in six months and be looking for another job.

I currently am on salary. The other company is a base hourly rate with production pay on top.

I currently have health insurance. The other company does not offer health insurance.

I gross 1500 every two weeks. I average around 50 hours a week.

I was offerd a pay package that has the possability of earning around 3-6k more per year however at the base pay I would be losing a couple grand a year not counting trying to find insurance.

My thought is even if we break even money wise it will be a better situation for me because I have a hard time getting up in the morning going to a place I have no respect for. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I feel bad looking a customer in the eye telling them the line I'm supposed to give them knowing I don't like the product.

Of course this means likely having to work more hours as well. Cutting into family time and the wife doesn't like that.

I really wish I could get out of this industry completly. Unfortunately I've been doing it since 1998 and it's pretty much all that I know. Anyway I've rambled on too much.

Any advice?

Nope.

I'm not working the same hours for less money.

If the new company really wanted you, they'd offer you a better deal. It doesn't sound like a better deal to me.

I've been in the situation before, and in order for me to move, the deal had to be obviously better, no question. In 1999 it was, and it's the best move I ever made. Despite a number of other offers, I'm still here.

Sit down and figure out what it would take to make you and the family happy.

Sounds like it's something along the lines of: Same or fewer hours, significantly higher pay (including a health insurance package).

Present that to the prospective employer with a smile, a handshake, and confidence that you'll be a good employee for them if your terms are met.

How can you loose?

Remember, they are pursuing you!

Clem

Less money and no health insurance? Pass.

Your wife is right. Pass.

Health insurance cost will eat up all your extra money.

Figure out what you pay currently for insurance. You can likely continue that coverage if you leave your current job but you will have to pay for it out of pocket.

Figure out what you NEED to take home in order to pay the bills and stay above water. Add the insurance amount. Add 10%. That number should be the minimum base pay amount you will accept. If they aren't prepared to offer you that, thank them for their time and interest.

Let your current boss know you have had offers and have chosen to stay with the company. Perhaps they will consider a performance or loyalty bonus if they know you are a loyal employee, maybe they won't, but you will look like a great guy for turning down the competitor's offer (don't state who the competitor was unless it is obvious).

Start working on your resume or start taking night classes to help you in your (ultimate) quest to get out of the job you don't enjoy.

Clemsparks has it right. Ask for the moon and stars. You might be surprised. Otherwise, I'd pass. It's called work. It sucks. No one likes doing it. Grass is always greener. Yada yada. Start looking for another job, but not one that pays $1.50 an hour more with no benefits. That's crazy talk.

Tell them to give a much better offer.

I have left a job for less money. But it was ONLY because I wanted to try out my dream (glad I did it) but it was working little more than 1/2 the hours. Would I ever leave a job to work more hours, make less money, and have less time with my family? I can't see that every happening.

Datsun1500 wrote: Don't let the guy that is paying you $40K a year plus benefits find out you think he has a lousy product and you could run his company better or you will have no job. I would start there. The reason the new guy is not offering much is because you have only been at the other place a few months. It's pretty easy to get someone away under those circumstances compared to a guy that has been loyal to the other guy for years.

and I'll grow sick of this place in six months and be looking for another job.

Is that a pattern? She could be right.

Never said I could run his company better. If I had the chance I would tell the owner to his face the product is junk. It's a laughing stock among the engineers I've worked with. I knew of a slight reputation before working for them, I had no idea it was this bad. I've made my feelings perfectly clear to my immediate managers.

First company I worked for in this industry was for eight years. That company went out of buisness in late 06'. I worked on boats for a year then put in three of the hardest years of my life with the second. 30+ days straight 12-15hrs a day was the rule rather than the exception. Changed to my current employer taking close to a 20k per year pay cut just to have a reasonable work/life balance. I wouldn't say I can't or wont keep a job but I am looking to better our current situation.

We've made big strides in getting our debt knocked down. Until the hospital visit last weekend we had everything paid of except her car. I can't wait to see what the hospital bills are going to be.

I am going to hit them with a counter offer. I mean they where after me not the other way around. Either way my current employment is short term. I can't continue to let myself be brought down to a lower level.

I'd have no problem taking less money for more happiness. But I don't see how more hours and less family time could play into the more happiness equation.

And maybe it's just me but if a company isn't offering health care it makes me feel they don't really care about their people and I wouldn't expect that it would be a happy place to work long term.

nicksta43 wrote: We've made big strides in getting our debt knocked down. Until the hospital visit last weekend we had everything paid of except her car. I can't wait to see what the hospital bills are going to be.

Try pricing that hospital visit without insurance.
Hold out for more from this employer who "wants you."

In my inexperienced eyes, salary is almost always better than hourly, and the health insurance is the big deal breaker.

You must be a cable/satellite tech.

You are allowing your desperation to overshadow your logic.

You will NOT get a better offer than you negotiate out of the gate. In other words, do not expect raises, increases, etc if you can't negotiate them now.

However, you are currently in a dead end job. The company has a bad reputation which is deteriorating, and you can't stand it. This WILL end badly, and possibly sooner than you think.

Make a move. You will be a better father and husband if you are happy. Begin making a move immediately. The company is dying, and so are you.

HOWEVER DO NOT MAKE THIS MOVE. At least not as it is presented.

You are in the driver's seat. They may want to put a hurt on the company you work for, or know your reputation, etc. Negotiate for more- a LOT more. Don't be chicken on this.

One more thing- be honest with yourself. If your wife is right and job jumping is your habit, you are a lousy employee no matter where you work. Follow JFK's advice and consider what you can offer your company, not what they can offer you. That will make you valuable no matter where you work. Learn contentment and loyalty. They will serve you well.

Negotiation skills.

Make a detailed list of what you have, and put together a list of; A. What you MUST have. B. What would be nice to get.

Take that to the potential new employer. Sit down and say to them how much you know about their company and products and how much you would like to work for them, but you REALLY need them to meet these requirements.

If you never ask them, you'll never get it.

It's easier to talk for money than it is to work for money.

Now days benefits like health insurance is a huge factor. And working to support your family without being able to spend time with your family isn't good either. If you really like the other company, ask them to match benefits and hours. In writing. At least.

mtn wrote: In my inexperienced eyes, salary is almost always better than hourly, and the health insurance is the big deal breaker.

Agree on the health insurance, but not on the salary vs hourly - in some cases where lots of unpaid overtime is expected, you're much better off getting hourly pay.

All in all, the offer made to the OP sounds pretty crap to me. I wouldn't take it unless I'd be completely desperate - with the lack of health insurance it sounds like a pay cut waiting to happen.

mtn wrote: In my inexperienced eyes, salary is almost always better than hourly, and the health insurance is the big deal breaker.

You're inexperience eyes are incorrect.

Salaried positions suck (there are plenty of office type jobs where you are hourly, like me).

Salaried people typically get a company cell phone, which you are expected to answer, even outside of normal working hours (don't forget to respond to those emails as well!!!).

You are on salary because they EXPECT you WILL be working more than 40 hours per week on a REGULAR basis, hence paying you the same every month.

The company I work for now tried to hire me 3 years ago, I wouldn't talk to them anymore after they were offering me salary vs my hourly at the time.

Pass. The family plan health insurance is worth $1,000+ a month in Chicago.

nicksta43 wrote: I was offerd a pay package that has the possability of earning around 3-6k more per year however at the base pay I would be losing a couple grand a year not counting trying to find insurance.

This seems like a no-brainer to me. That's not an offer, that's an insult.

nicksta43 wrote: Any advice?

I'm going to give you a little advice. There's a force in the universe that makes things happen. And all you have to do is get in touch with it, stop thinking, let things happen, and be the ball.

And remember - the Zen philosopher Basho once wrote, "A flute with no holes is not a flute. And a doughnut with no hole is a danish."

In the past 2 years I've turned down three job offers. All three were pay cuts, but each one I considered based on other factors. In the end, I had to say no to all of them. There is more to consider than salary. I've had jobs in the past where I wouldn't go back to do for double my current salary. There is a point where it is not about the money. I once went 3 months without seeing my son awake because I was always at work. Not travelling out of town, just was always at work putting in 80-100 weeks sometimes. That was BS and not worth the pain. My current job is not that extreme, but there will be a stretch next spring where I will be scheduled for 6 12 hours days a week for several months. Of course, the 12's will end up more like 13's or 14's. I am planning on something else before that happens. Hopefully, this fall I will start a new job.

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

nicksta43 wrote: I was offerd a pay package that has the possability of earning around 3-6k more per year however at the base pay I would be losing a couple grand a year not counting trying to find insurance.

This seems like a no-brainer to me. That's not an offer, that's an insult.

nicksta43 wrote: Any advice?

I'm going to give you a little advice. There's a force in the universe that makes things happen. And all you have to do is get in touch with it, stop thinking, let things happen, and be the ball. And remember - the Zen philosopher Basho once wrote, "A flute with no holes is not a flute. And a doughnut with no hole is a danish."

Ssssssuhnuhnuhnuhnuhnuh. Nnnnnnnnuhnuhnuhnuhnuhnuh.

Not enough upside ($5-8000 a year in in production pay) for the give-back ($2000 base pay AND no health insurance which, depending on the coverage, could be worth as much as $15000 a year).