gun control rant thread

tuna55 wrote:

Strizzo wrote:

tuna55 wrote: I have to say it clearer, because I can't quite believe it, but if they stick to what those points actually say, and don't expand it to go crazy, those are actually reasonable things to do, and they all seem reasonably constitutional as well. I don't know how else to say it.

well, that is just the executive order portion, he did also say that he wants congress to pass laws to require background checks on all gun transactions, dealer-to person, and person-to-person (this i have no problem with, covers my backside as well if i'm selling to an individual) pass a strengthened AWB (if he's referring to Feinstein's bill, it WOULD include confiscation by disallowing transfers even within family, upon death the AW would be surrendered to the govt, and would classify nearly every semiauto as an "assault weapon") limit detachable magazine capacity to 10 rounds (also if this is feinsteins bill it would not grandfather "pre-ban" mags). some other lip service to mental health issues.

Agreed fully, I will/would have an issue if congress were to pass any of those, but I thought the executive branch would grab that power and shove it down our throats. I will rally against any bill like that, but I don't think a bill like that stands a chance in the house or senate.

I think Obama figured out from the gun buy-up after the election and especially since Newtown, that he would have to turn up the heat slowly on the frog, rather than toss it straight into the boiling oil. expect a lot of rhetoric from both sides in the coming weeks and months. probably as part of the "national safe gun ownership campaign" that was talked about.

In reply to tuna55:

Oh, it probably would pass the Senate.....and if you had seen the footage from the vote over banning new production of full auto back in the 80's, you'd probably be concerned with the house.

yamaha wrote: In reply to tuna55: 4.Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun. 15.Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes. These are the only two issues I can come up with, #4 My issue is, WTF was it seized for? Evidence in a personal protection case? #15 Would allow doctors to inflict their personal views upon others......Its probably worrying too much, but they're human, and can indeed falsify things quite easily.

on #15 From the actual law

(c) PROTECTION OF SECOND AMENDMENT GUN RIGHTS.— ‘‘(1) WELLNESS AND PREVENTION PROGRAMS.—A wellness and health promotion activity implemented under subsection (a)(1)(D) may not require the disclosure or collection of any information relating to— ‘‘(A) the presence or storage of a lawfully-possessed firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property of an individual; or H. R. 3590—767 ‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition by an individual.

In reply to rainydave:

OK, so he's thinking he can indeed nullify the right to not disclose, or am I confused by this....

The National Safe Gun Ownership Campaign should teach students at a high school level proper handling, safety, accuracy, and maintence as at least an elective course before graduation. You know, basically all the things the Scouts were supposed to teach you before they couldn't anymore.....

rainydave wrote:

yamaha wrote: In reply to tuna55: 4.Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun. 15.Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes. These are the only two issues I can come up with, #4 My issue is, WTF was it seized for? Evidence in a personal protection case? #15 Would allow doctors to inflict their personal views upon others......Its probably worrying too much, but they're human, and can indeed falsify things quite easily.

on #15 From the actual law (c) PROTECTION OF SECOND AMENDMENT GUN RIGHTS.— ‘‘(1) WELLNESS AND PREVENTION PROGRAMS.—A wellness and health promotion activity implemented under subsection (a)(1)(D) may not require the disclosure or collection of any information relating to— ‘‘(A) the presence or storage of a lawfully-possessed firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property of an individual; or H. R. 3590—767 ‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition by an individual.

I cannot believe I am defending the president. Maybe I'll go join PETA when I'm done here...

The word there is "require" whereas the points released today by Obama seem to indicate he's telling Dr.s that they can ask. They sure can. You don't have to tell them. Seems very reasonable.

yamaha wrote: In reply to rainydave: OK, so he's thinking he can indeed nullify the right to not disclose, or am I confused by this.... The National Safe Gun Ownership Campaign should teach students at a high school level proper handling, safety, accuracy, and maintence as at least an elective course before graduation. You know, basically all the things the Scouts were supposed to teach you before they couldn't anymore.....

Huh. When did Scouts stop teaching that?

93EXCivic wrote:

yamaha wrote: In reply to rainydave: OK, so he's thinking he can indeed nullify the right to not disclose, or am I confused by this.... The National Safe Gun Ownership Campaign should teach students at a high school level proper handling, safety, accuracy, and maintence as at least an elective course before graduation. You know, basically all the things the Scouts were supposed to teach you before they couldn't anymore.....

Huh. When did Scouts stop teaching that?

i'm 30, and even back when i was in scouts the only exposure to guns was about 45 seconds at the annual "turkey shoot" when we got to put maybe 5 rounds downrange with a rickety BB gun that wouldn't even shoot straight.

93EXCivic wrote:

yamaha wrote: In reply to rainydave: OK, so he's thinking he can indeed nullify the right to not disclose, or am I confused by this.... The National Safe Gun Ownership Campaign should teach students at a high school level proper handling, safety, accuracy, and maintence as at least an elective course before graduation. You know, basically all the things the Scouts were supposed to teach you before they couldn't anymore.....

Huh. When did Scouts stop teaching that?

They did around here amid the whole thing of having sex offenders as scout masters.....

So tuna, I'm just confused then.....if my doctor asks me, I'll counter with "How many do you have?"

Edit: We didn't even get pocket knives when I was in scouts.....I learned the basic skills and GTFO

Strizzo wrote:

93EXCivic wrote:

yamaha wrote: In reply to rainydave: OK, so he's thinking he can indeed nullify the right to not disclose, or am I confused by this.... The National Safe Gun Ownership Campaign should teach students at a high school level proper handling, safety, accuracy, and maintence as at least an elective course before graduation. You know, basically all the things the Scouts were supposed to teach you before they couldn't anymore.....

Huh. When did Scouts stop teaching that?

i'm 30, and even back when i was in scouts the only exposure to guns was about 45 seconds at the annual "turkey shoot" when we got to put maybe 5 rounds downrange with a rickety BB gun that wouldn't even shoot straight.

I'm 34 and I shot shotguns .22's and BB guns in the scouts. I'm also from suburban Philly, so there goes that excuse. Me thinks your scout master was a tool.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:

that is quite possible

tuna55 wrote: 14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

This is the really interesting one. The implication is, that the causes are not cut and dry ("Too many guns!" / "Not enough guns!"), and that real research needs to be done to figure out what they are and how to effectively deal with them.

This could very well be a first step towards a real, effective plan.

Strizzo wrote:

93EXCivic wrote:

yamaha wrote: In reply to rainydave: OK, so he's thinking he can indeed nullify the right to not disclose, or am I confused by this.... The National Safe Gun Ownership Campaign should teach students at a high school level proper handling, safety, accuracy, and maintence as at least an elective course before graduation. You know, basically all the things the Scouts were supposed to teach you before they couldn't anymore.....

Huh. When did Scouts stop teaching that?

i'm 30, and even back when i was in scouts the only exposure to guns was about 45 seconds at the annual "turkey shoot" when we got to put maybe 5 rounds downrange with a rickety BB gun that wouldn't even shoot straight.

I'm 30, and most of my friends had the riflery merit badge. We were good shots. But then, this was in crazy ultra-conservative CA.

Beer Baron wrote:

tuna55 wrote: 14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

This is the really interesting one. The implication is, that the causes are not cut and dry ("Too many guns!" / "Not enough guns!"), and that real research needs to be done to figure out what they are and how to effectively deal with them. This could very well be a first step towards a real, effective plan.

I'm kinda with ya on this one. I see this program as another one of those, "supposed to do something but really does nothing but suck up government money" kinda things. Why not let Universities conduct their own studies and send them grant money that will be used effectively and positively to help education?

Conquest351 wrote:

Beer Baron wrote:

tuna55 wrote: 14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

This is the really interesting one. The implication is, that the causes are not cut and dry ("Too many guns!" / "Not enough guns!"), and that real research needs to be done to figure out what they are and how to effectively deal with them. This could very well be a first step towards a real, effective plan.

I'm kinda with ya on this one. I see this program as another one of those, "supposed to do something but really does nothing but suck up government money" kinda things. Why not let Universities conduct their own studies and send them grant money that will be used effectively and positively to help education?

Because it is an executive order, and the Pres has power to direct the CDC but not to make grants to universities.

Beer Baron wrote:

Conquest351 wrote:

Beer Baron wrote:

tuna55 wrote: 14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

This is the really interesting one. The implication is, that the causes are not cut and dry ("Too many guns!" / "Not enough guns!"), and that real research needs to be done to figure out what they are and how to effectively deal with them. This could very well be a first step towards a real, effective plan.

I'm kinda with ya on this one. I see this program as another one of those, "supposed to do something but really does nothing but suck up government money" kinda things. Why not let Universities conduct their own studies and send them grant money that will be used effectively and positively to help education?

Because it is an executive order, and the Pres has power to direct the CDC but not to make grants to universities.

Gotcha. But the CDC doesn't really seem like the appropriate organization to do that kind of study to me. Just a thought...

Fueled by Caffeine wrote:

Strizzo wrote:

93EXCivic wrote:

yamaha wrote: In reply to rainydave: OK, so he's thinking he can indeed nullify the right to not disclose, or am I confused by this.... The National Safe Gun Ownership Campaign should teach students at a high school level proper handling, safety, accuracy, and maintence as at least an elective course before graduation. You know, basically all the things the Scouts were supposed to teach you before they couldn't anymore.....

Huh. When did Scouts stop teaching that?

i'm 30, and even back when i was in scouts the only exposure to guns was about 45 seconds at the annual "turkey shoot" when we got to put maybe 5 rounds downrange with a rickety BB gun that wouldn't even shoot straight.

I'm 34 and I shot shotguns .22's and BB guns in the scouts. I'm also from suburban Philly, so there goes that excuse. Me thinks your scout master was a tool.

I'm nearly 38, and shot all manner of guns in the scouts, up to and including black powder rifles. It was thanks to the initial training and testing that I know I'm heavily left-eye dominant and thus shoot left-handed for better accuracy. Have carried a pocket knife since I was old enough to earn a Totin' Chip. I was in troops all across the country since I'm an Army Brat, so it wasn't just regional. If they no longer teach gun safety and shooting- especially at places like Philmont- then things really HAVE changed even more than I had already heard since when I was a scout...

In reply to Conquest351:

The CDC will probably do a better job of cutting through the bullE36 M3 than universities would.....

As little thrilled as I am to say it, I will trust the CDC before a "For Profit" place of education.

yamaha wrote: In reply to Conquest351: The CDC will probably do a better job of cutting through the bullE36 M3 than universities would..... As little thrilled as I am to say it, I will trust the CDC before a "For Profit" place of education.

Wasn't there some ranting a page or so back about the evil political bias of public educators and their desire to indoctrinate their students in said bias?

(Smiley ninja-edited in case anyone doesn't realize that was meant to be humorous.)

at least someone in the NY Assembly tried to stop the railroading of the NY Safe! bill's passing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Hy9RvnWe0mE

In reply to Beer Baron:

There probably was somewhere, but that is the general gist of it......having graduate students researching something for a grade isn't the best way to get anything done right.

27 and I shot .22's and had the option of black powder and shotgun (for additional price IIRC) at scout camp back shortly before 2000

IIRC I was too young ( in middleschool at the time) to participate in the black powder or shotgun stuff.

We did BB guns as cubscouts

This was in southern ohio (Chief Logan BSA Camp)

In reply to Apexcarver:

Rural Indiana......circa same time, we didn't do that stuff. Then again, our scout leader was a Vietnam Veteran.

I am 24 and we shot black powder, 22 and shotguns in Scouts.

In order news, has anyone seen the rush on guns and ammo slow down at all?

I wish I could say I have, but not so far. Prices are still uber inflated and ammo is non-existent.