Help me buy a hole in the water (or not?)

I know a bunch of you here have boats. So many of my hobbies are solitary affairs or at most shared with my older kid. Well, a few weeks ago I found myself looking at boats for sale and figured we should rent one first to see what the family thinks. All four of us had a blast and my wife even said "I could do this every day." We got the only thing the rental place had left, which was an 8hp 18' pontoon. It was glacially, almost dangerously slow and we still had a blast. Just puttering about on the reservoir and putting in at one of the swim coves for a long swim and fishing a couple spots and watching the ospreys hunt. I figured we would just rent for the very short rest of the season, but of course can't stop looking at boats for sale.

The cons of renting:
1) Kinda pricey - the 18' 8hp pontoon was only $250 or so for the 5 hours we had it out, but if we did that a lot it would add up fast. The bigger faster pontoons are more and the ski boats are way more
2) You're at the mercy of what they have available, and they are busy on weekends. I got the last boat, and there was a 4 boat waiting list by the time I left.
3) The boats are pretty ragged, honestly.
4) You can only rent boats on one reservoir here, the others don't have power boat rental - but that's not a huge issue because the other reservoirs are 9.9hp max and don't allow swimming which is a big part of what we liked.

So if I am going to buy, I was thinking of a budget option until we really get a handle on how much we're going to use the thing. I need it to be towed and launched by a 2016 Dodge Grand Caravan. (We're only about 10 miles from the boat launch so not a long tow.) I want it to be reasonably reliable as I have way too much going on to start working on a boat all the time.

I like pontoons but they're all SO expensive right now. $8,000 buys you an older, raggedy one. Maybe with a trailer, maybe not. I found a few like this:

https://youngstown.craigslist.org/boa/d/niles-16-ft-starcraft-open-bow-easily/7369687559.html

It's got the 9.9hp motor so we can go on the other reservoirs if we want. It's a light aluminum boat so low maintenance and would tow and launch easily with the van. It's not as roomy as a pontoon but will fit the four of us easily and could add a couple friends if some wanted to come along. It's got a top for shade, that's nice. It's got a ladder. It seems well kept. Our intended use would be just what we did a couple weeks ago: puttering around the 3300 acre reservoir, fishing here and there, swimming in the swim coves, that sort of thing. The kids are 4 and 6 so it's a few years until they're tube ready. Since it's a reservoir the only waves and chop are the wakes from the other boats - which isn't nothing but it's not open sea swells either - so I'm not too worried about the rough noisy ride that aluminum boats are known for.

Would a simple aluminum boat like this work for us? Should we just keep renting? Should I get a 454 big block jet boat with open headers instead?

Also, if we find we need more seats, would something like this mounted to the rear of the boat work?

https://www.wholesalemarine.com/wise-deluxe-37-pontoon-lounge-seat/

I also have ideas about putting a marine porta potty in the bow of the boat, no privacy, just enough for a 4- or 6-year old to hit the head if they have the need while we're a long way from a toilet. Is this a terrible idea or something that would be "good enough?"

The Starcraft looks like an end of season bargain, but I'm just looking at pictures and dreaming. A big reason it's cheap is that it doesn't have enough power to plane the boat. Might work out for you. 
 

There's a lot to check out. I'm sure some good advice will show up here soon. 

My boat story. I was sitting at my desk at work one day and my wife calls, "I found a boat" she says. To which I replied, "I didn't know we were looking for a boat." We now have a 1987 19ft. Glastron that hasn't been in the water in three years.  But we have a boat. 

I think that boat might be sized well for a family of four with two younger kids.  You won't be able to bring too many people out there with you, though.  At only 15HP it might struggle to get all of you up on plane as well, so you might end up wanting a heftier motor.

Poking around online, I don't find a '73 Starcraft Sportster listed, so you might want to get a pic of the ID plate and do the decoding yourself, and that should let you know how many horses it can take, and what sort of load it can float safely.
https://www.nadaguides.com/Boats/1973/Starcraft-Co/Power-Boats 
http://boatspecs.iboats.com/Starcraft_Marine__Outboard__1973/bp/32br1466bt3y
Kind of looks like a Super Sport, in which case it can take approx 70 more HP https://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/threads/16-5-1973-starcraft-super-sport-aluminum-hull.527570/

Pretty sure that you know, but it bears repeating: right now boats, like every other outdoor or vehicle related hobby, are stupid expensive so just about no matter what you buy you're going to be on the wrong end of the pendulum.

dculberson (Forum Supporter) said:

Also, if we find we need more seats, would something like this mounted to the rear of the boat work?

https://www.wholesalemarine.com/wise-deluxe-37-pontoon-lounge-seat/

I also have ideas about putting a marine porta potty in the bow of the boat, no privacy, just enough for a 4- or 6-year old to hit the head if they have the need while we're a long way from a toilet. Is this a terrible idea or something that would be "good enough?"

Marine bean bag chairs.  Much cheaper than those, usually they are makeshift floatation device, kids will love them, can put them anywhere in the boat.

https://www.amazon.com/Big-Joe-Milano-Regular-Marine/dp/B085M5CLMP

For the kids, the cheap version is a bucket with some plast bags for #2, and an upside down milk carton/bleach bottle with the bottom cut off for ladies #1. Teach any boys to pee off the side; don't rock the boat while it's happening. 
 

That Starcraft will work. Kids love being in the bow seats. But I would want a much bigger engine - at least 40, preferably 75. You can always add a kicker. Eventually your kids will want to go tubing or skiing, so you'll want some HP to whip them around. 
 

mtn said:

 But I would want a much bigger engine - at least 40, preferably 75. You can always add a kicker. Eventually your kids will want to go tubing or skiing, so you'll want some HP to whip them around. 

A 15 hp (or 9.9 with carb change) IS a kicker, on that! Move it to the side, and add a larger outboard for the main!

With current prices, I'd say thats a decent starter, if the hull is sound. 'Course a soft transom might be why it ended up with that small of an outboard?

The 2 happiest days in a boat owner's life are:

When they buy it

When they sell it

The exception for me is my Hobie Tandem Island sailboat/kayak.  Would give up the sportscar first.

In reply to dculberson (Forum Supporter) :

I assume were talking about "The Creek".  Its a beautiful place.  You might not realize it right away but the one thing that makes it so unique and attractive is that the whole lake is owned by the State Park and as such other than the small marina building, there isn't a single building or house on the entire lake.  I've done  a lot of sailing there in the past; much of it in the fall.  It is beautiful in the fall when the leaves are changing and the whole lake is just lined with color. 

There is a separate dedicated sailboat marina but that marina has no launching capabilities.  One of the challenges with sailboats there is they have to be ramp launched.  The deepest ramp is the one at the powerboat marina.  But, I seem to remember that ramp is ultra steep.  If you plan to use that ramp you might want to do a scouting mission to see if that ramp looks minivan friendly.  We were launching these boats with a Trailblazer.  

The creek has other launch ramps that I have never been to but again, a pre-scouting mission to those ramps might be wise.  

A typical photo, notice no buildings, just trees.  

A photo of the dedicated sailing marina:

Poop in a 5 gal bucket.  Tie a rope to the bucket handle.  Before use put bucket in the water and scoop up a small amount of lake water.  Poop into that small water.  Discard all the contents of the bucket overboard once the transaction is complete.  Rinse bucket with more lake water while holding the rope.

I have no leads on cheap boats.  You picked the wrong year for that. 

That Starcraft you linked is a workhorse.  Starcraft (and its affiliated companies) used that exact hull from the 60s through the 2000s.  The hull is basically a flat-bottom, but with a 9.9 on it you'll never experience it the rough ride it can provide.  It's not noisy at all because it's a tank.  Expect to find soft spots in the floor.

My grandparents had one and used it hard.  And I mean HARD.  multiple times a day for three months in the summer, then they snowbirded to FL and used it in salt the other 9 months of the year.  It is a 1968 model and when they passed away it was inherited by my cousin and it's still being used.

If I were buying it, I would keep my eyes peeled for a cheap 70 horse to drop on it and move the little motor to the side.  Keep the 70 tilted up while at the 9.9 lakes and you now have a multi-use boat that you can explore bigger water as well.

For family fun space, it's hard to beat a pontoon.  Dad has one and it is our go-to fishing and exploring rig.  It's slow even with a 40hp on it, but it's sturdy, has tons of space, and drafts very little.

You can't go wrong with that 16' Starcraft you linked, but I think I'd want a 45 HP on it, at least.

At that size and weight, you can probably pull it with a minivan.

If you want to make it a really bad decision there are usually a few boats at the VOA auctions. The upcoming auction only has a sailboat.

Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:

You can't go wrong with that 16' Starcraft you linked, but I think I'd want a 45 HP on it, at least.

At that size and weight, you can probably pull it with a minivan.

My math: Hull is probably around 300-500. Floor, maybe 100-300 if it is ridiculously overbuilt. Windshield and consoles and seats... Call it another 300. Gas and battery, 200 fully loaded (with a ridiculously oversized battery and 20 gallons of gas). Trailer, 400. Engine that is on it is probably 90 pounds. Even if you ADDED a 75 horse engine - and lets go with a super heavy one, a 4 stroke Honda - 400? - we're still only at 2,200. You'd have no trouble with that. The only way I could see an issue is with bad boat ramps, or if the flotation is all water logged. Use your parking brake on the ramps (reverse in, hit parking brake, let go of brake, foot back on brake and put it in park; when you're pulling forward, foot on the brake, put it in low gear, release the parking brake, go forward slowly).

*Note: I would expect that, even with an average 75 horse engine on it, the weight would only be around 1,800-1,900. I was going on the high side with my estimates.

Edit:

Let's not look at what a disaster my garage is, but I just towed this boat about 600 miles with our 2017 Kia Sedona. 15MPG at 73MPH; no issues whatsoever. That is an 18' Lowe, 50 horse Merc tiller. No floor. 

In reply to mtn :

Check my links above, the Super Sport of that year is ~630lbs.

Mr_Asa said:

In reply to mtn :

Check my links above, the Super Sport of that year is ~630lbs.

Pretty close to the low end of my estimate then (300 hull, 100 floor, 300 console/glass).  I always shoot high in these estimations, just to put my mind at ease about my transmission on the tow vehicle. 

OMG thanks for all the input guys!

@John Welsh: Yes, Alum Creek. That's such an amazing park. We've probably been there a half dozen times in the last month. Even without a boat, it's almost 7000 acres of beauty. With a boat it's like another world. The main boat ramp next to the marina does look a bit steep, but I know there's one at Howard Rd that's a lot easier in/out but it's also more of a haul from my house as it's the complete opposite corner of the reservoir. Not such a big deal, but I'll check them out in detail next time I'm there.

I seriously hope you're joking about dumping poop in the reservoir. (a) I want to swim in it, with my kids. (b) THAT'S OUR DRINKING WATER! (c) ew. Now I wonder how many people are doing that. You're making me question ever going in that water again.

@Mr_Asa: Thanks, that's good info. The marine bean bags would be a hit with the kids. I know all boats are super expensive now, but the one I listed isn't a big risk I guess.

@Evan: I thought about a total project but you know how many things I have going on at any given moment. A basket case boat would either have to put everything else on hold or it wouldn't get done in time for summer 2025.

@mtn: I know the engine is tiny, and we'll want more. But I figure for out first power boat it won't be bad. That way I think of it, it's like buying your first car. You don't even know what you don't know, but the only way to learn is start doing it. I hope that the Starcraft, or whatever we end up with, is a good intro to it: good enough to not turn us off boating for BS reasons and good enough to enjoy but it doesn't have to be so amazing that it lasts us a life time. One season would be enough for me to get a handle on it. Even if boat prices crater, I figure it would be worth what $1000 - $1500? Assuming no enormous expenses we would still come out ahead of renting a few times.

@Curtis: I was hoping you'd chime in! That's great that you have direct experience with a similar boat. How you describe it sounds perfect to me. What I want is a solid, simple intro boat. Something I'm not going to have to baby or tinker with a lot, and that doesn't have to be exciting. Get us on the water, get us to see what we like and don't like about it. A pontoon would be great but I'm not quite ready to drop the $8000 - $10000 that the 15-20 year old pontoons in good shape seem to fetch right now.

Maybe a year with the 15hp motor and then evaluate a bigger motor verus a different boat. If we're going to use it 20 times a year or more then I'd be happy spending $10k on a pontoon, if that's what we decide we want. If we end up only taking it out a couple times then clearly it's not worth a big investment.

Oh, and I'm not worried about the van's transmission, since it's rated to tow 3600lbs and you'd be hard pressed to get a little aluminum boat and trailer up to that. I'm worried about traction on the ramps. Sounds like that's solvable with some creativity and maybe some equipment. I like equipment.

My wife already said "sure, get it." So I can't quite explain why it isn't in the driveway. Maybe it's the three other big projects I have in progress at the moment.

I was suggesting that the poop was that of your 4 year old on the occasion it needed to happen.  The safety of a 5 gal bucket. 

Personally, I have never pooped there but probably have peed in the water every time I've been there. Peeing from the back of the boat. 

ALL the fish poop in it every day! But, your real problem is the Canadian Geese!  Those things crap like dogs! 

PS: The Creek is great. 

Even if your not into sailboats, there are sailboat races every Weds night at 6pm in the prime months.  It can be quite attractive to see them all on the water. Something very nice to spectate from a powerboat. 

I was gonna say what John said.  Its not an ideal situation, but any water out of there that is consumed by people has been sterilized and processed.

If the kids gotta poop, do all the steps except the dumping.  Pull up on the bank and walk 20-30 yards away from the water and dump it on the hill?

At that price, I don't ever see you losing, even with the small engine. It's a capable hull, if outclassed by more modern designs. There is a guy on the pro walleye tour, now sponsored by Warrior, who started fishing the big tourneys in the 18 foot version of it. 
 

One other thought on the power, and John can answer this, how rough does the water get? I fish/boat water where it can get lumpy and uncomfortable with no warning. I like being able to get up on plane to get home. It really is something of a safety issue, depending on the lake you're using it on. 
 

Additionally, if you don't have a backup means of propulsion, make sure you have the coast guard/lake police on your cell phone, and consider a tow insurance package. Old outboards can decide to not work for no reason, and it's not always diagnosable on the water. (Ask me how I know)

If you've seen my boat thread, You'll know that I was in a similar position. Most of my hobbies were solo pursuits and I wanted something to do with the family. I got rid of the JetSki and the ATV and bought a $500 16 foot bow rider that needed a lot of work. Through the Covid lockdown I put a lot of hours into rebuilding in and now have a nice family boat does family boating very well.

My total investment is probably $6000 give or take.  I figured that any boat of this ilk that was listed at $4 - $5k 4 would need $2 - $3k of work. Because I did the work myself, I know the hull has many years of life and that the motor is reliable. 

So if I had to do it over again, what would I do? I would buy a ratty pontoon. Building things out of wood and fiberglass kind of sucks. Replacing the flat deck of a pontoon is pretty easy in comparison. Making custom vinyl cushions definitely sucks, buying pontoon seats and a console out of a catalog is much easier. At some point, you'll want to bring friends for the kids and a pontoon gives you more room for that. You won't be waterskiing behind it for a lot of years either.
 

As long as you don't have to weld or repair the floats, I think a pontoon is an easier craft to deal with. I love my boat and it's satisfied what I wanted to do, but I don't think I'd recommend that path for most new boat owners. I think an aluminum bowrider might be a good way to get the best of both worlds. Go for it. 

Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:

You can't go wrong with that 16' Starcraft you linked, but I think I'd want a 45 HP on it, at least.

At that size and weight, you can probably pull it with a minivan.

 

 

My grandparents Starcraft just like that one above was about 1900 lbs with no gear... just boat/70hp/trailer.