In reply to aircooled :
It's good to see all those billions we've spent developing anti-aircraft defenses has worked. Doesn't look so good for the Russian stuff though.
In reply to aircooled :
It's good to see all those billions we've spent developing anti-aircraft defenses has worked. Doesn't look so good for the Russian stuff though.
bobzilla said:In reply to aircooled :
It's good to see all those billions we've spent developing anti-aircraft defenses has worked. Doesn't look so good for the Russian stuff though.
I really hope we can develop some cheaper drone defenses based on lessons learned from this war.
In reply to bobzilla :
Or for Iran who'd want to sell them.
Isn't the German Leopard-2 anti-air defense bullet based? Or is it another MBT? The number of tanks being delivered (Russia is now moving T-55s on Trains!) makes it hard to track.
It was really surprising to me the degree which Drones are the future of air, land, and sea warfare.
GIRTHQUAKE said:In reply to bobzilla :
..Isn't the German Leopard-2 anti-air defense bullet based?..
35mm radar guided autocannon. I saw a pic of Ukranians usings a heavy machine gun and a spotlight. They were even shooting them down, in daylight, with rifles. So yes, it can certainly be done cheaper.
aircooled said:GIRTHQUAKE said:In reply to bobzilla :
..Isn't the German Leopard-2 anti-air defense bullet based?..
35mm radar guided autocannon. I saw a pic of Ukranians usings a heavy machine gun and a spotlight. They were even shooting them down, in daylight, with rifles. So yes, it can certainly be done cheaper.
Perhaps 2023 is the return of the punt gun!
Edit: Now with picture!
That might actually be useful idea. Some sort of giant shotgun could work!
The guess on the new years attack in Makiivka has been that the concentration of troops in the building was made obvious by locating cell phone use by the soldiers, which has been a problem for a while. The Russians may be confirming that:
Russia's Defence Ministry said on Wednesday that 89 service members were killed in the Ukrainian attack on Makiivka in the Moscow-controlled parts of the Donetsk region, adding the main reason for the attack was unauthorized use of mobile phones by the troops.
"It is already obvious that the main reason for what happened was the switching on and massive use — contrary to the prohibition — by personnel of mobile phones in a reach zone of enemy weapons," the ministry said in a statement.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-invasion-ukraine-day-314-1.6702685
The other interesting comments in the article speak to how hard it is to assume the accuracy of information in these circumstances. The Russians say:
The ministry also suggested that in return, it launched airstrikes launched at a "hardware concentration" near Druzhkivka railway station in Donetsk, killing up to 200 Ukrainian personnel, and destroying four HIMARS launchers and more than 800 rockets.
The Ukrainians say (which is not in the article anymore, it was removed for some reason):
Kyrlo Tymoshenko, and aide to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenkskyy, said on Tuesday that two people were wounded in the attack on Druzhkivka, which destroyed a hocky arena.
Which is actually pretty funny in contrast. BTW I think the original Russian number was 30?, now they are up to 89... so...
In reply to aircooled :
Have the Russians destroyed more HIMARS launchers than have ever been built yet? I've lost track.
In reply to eastsideTim :
A lot of that narrative is targeting the domestic audience. While we have easy access to data that refutes many Russian claims, the same is not true for the vast majority of Russians. Combat outcomes that are quickly dismissed as absurd and thus immediately ignored in the West are much more a part of the discussion in Russia. Without something to suggest progress, the Russian government surely fears a more rapid decline in homefront morale, and rightly so. Absent real results, the dominance of the information space by state media and hawkish bloggers allows wildly inaccurate claims to gain credence by sheer repetition and lack of countervailing evidence.
Ukrainian forces destroy two enemy ammunition depots in Bakhmut area
04.01.2023 15:19
Ukraine's defense forces destroyed two Russian ammunition depots in the Bakhmut area on Wednesday, January 4.
Serhii Cherevatyi, spokesperson for the Eastern Group of Troops of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, said this on Ukraine's television, Ukrinform reports.
"Our rocket forces and artillery hit different targets, first of all, large concentrations of the enemy, personnel, as was the case this time, equipment, as well as warehouses with weapons, ammunition, and fuel. Today, two warehouses with ammunition were destroyed in the Bakhmut area, one in the Avdiivka area and another in the Lyman area," Cherevatyi said.
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He added that in fact, relatively high-precision weapons systems such as HIMARS and MLRS hunt enemy targets and achieve unique sniper accuracy, which can be confirmed by recent events in Makiivka.
When asked whether it was a mistake for the invaders to use mobile phones with geolocation in Makiivka, Cherevatyi noted that the use of mobile phones was, of course, a mistake, but it was not comparable to the command's decision to deploy a large number of personnel in one place.
"The enemy was not able to covertly deploy its personnel, and Ukrainian intelligence used it," Cherevatyi said. He added that at present, the invaders cannot afford to unload large batches of artillery shells closer than 100 kilometers from the front line.
Cherevatyi noted that despite heavy losses near Bakhmut, the enemy continues attacking the positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
"Over the past 24 hours, the enemy launched 238 strikes with various fire systems, tanks, there were 22 combat clashes, the enemy lost 142 killed and 204 wounded," the spokesman said.
Unverified as of yet but 2 more ammo depots down isn't too shabby.
Update on the devastating Russian counter attack that "killing up to 200 Ukrainian personnel, and destroying four HIMARS launchers and more than 800 rockets"
As you can see below, the HIMARS and 800 rockets where completely destroyed and hastily replaced with bottled water and supplies to make glorious Russia look bad:
(of note: no real way to know if this is true either)
In reply to aircooled :
dang, they must love their hockey to make their ice with bottled water!
I've asked this before but didn't get a response, doesn't anybody in Russia own a shortwave radio? I know that Radio Free Europe is still broadcasting. I still have two working ones that my dad owned back in the 60s.
It's too bad we don't have someway to infuse all of Russia's vodka with massive amounts of estrogen. That would sure calm them down. My wife and I are domestic violence advocates and if I where an abused spouse, old hubby would be growing breasts and crying a lot.
I think the response to that would be: Do you watch/listen to Russian state TV/radio?
If you don't because you believe it is essentially propaganda and all lies, you have your answer.
I am sure there are some in Russia who listen and believe it, but there is a lot of push back from inside Russia. Heck, they may even see Western media as the same as Russian media, all BS. A common Russian has almost no way to actually verify what they hear on Radio Free Europe. The kleptocracts are well traveled and well aware, and couldn't care less (they got theirs).
VolvoHeretic said: My wife and I are domestic violence advocates....
I'm probably reading something into this statement that you did not intend.
As far as shortwaves, I seem to recall a program to get radios into the Soviet Union, but I think there was also a Soviet initiative to promote ham radio operations (within limits, I'm sure - it's been a long time since I looked at this stuff). I'm sure there are still sets in Russia, but how much they are used, and how much of what is heard is actually believed, is a different question.
Lol, thanks. Domestic Violence (Crisis Victim) Advocates.
84FSP said:It was really surprising to me the degree which Drones are the future of air, land, and sea warfare.
They're just really slow moving guided missiles/torpedoes, if you think about it a little.
Or they are kamikaze planes/subs/boats where the pilot gets to live, if you put too much thought into it.
There's a space battles sci fi book series I enjoyed where the humans and allied species were fighting a species that, frankly, reminds me a lot of the current situation. An aggressive and hostile enemy uses a "throw meat at the problem until the problem is solved" mentality, and they had overwhelming numbers due to having had about 80 years' worth of stockpiling from a military buildup from a war with a completely different species altogether, that the war went into a stalemate when they could no longer fight them for astrographics reasons.
The humans/allied species won the war in large part because of drone technology.
02Pilot said:I'm probably reading something into this statement that you did not intend.
Lol, reminds me of a buddy from HS who refused to give money when asked to "support cancer". His response was something along the lines of "No, cancer sucks, why would I want to support it?"
aircooled said:That might actually be useful idea. Some sort of giant shotgun could work!
May I introduce you to the M1028 round?
Last I heard it was being phased out in favor of the AMP round, but that might be hard to program for this specific use
In reply to Mr_Asa :
That's berkeleying scary. It's like a claymore on meth.
In reply to Stampie :
It really is. The explanation given to me for the original designed use was basically something like "so U.S. tanks move in pairs at a minimum, right? What happens when one is getting overrun by enemies on foot? You can't turn the main gun on them, and at the time tbis was designed you couldn't control the smaller guns from inside the tanks like you can now. They needed something to be able to wipe out the infantry attacking the tanks. So, tank sized shotgun."
Took me a bit to wrap my head around that and the mental images it generated, but it was ultimately one of the more enjoyable programs I worked on at GD.
aircooled said:Update on the devastating Russian counter attack that "killing up to 200 Ukrainian personnel, and destroying four HIMARS launchers and more than 800 rockets"
As you can see below, the HIMARS and 800 rockets where completely destroyed and hastily replaced with bottled water and supplies to make glorious Russia look bad:
(of note: no real way to know if this is true either)
I apologize for backtracking a bit on this thread, but can you explain this? I get Russians pretending to hit things, but I do not know what is going on with water bottles, nor a few HVAC ducts laying about. I seriously am missing something between those things.
In reply to tuna55 :
I believe they were using the hockey rink as a staging area for supplies like water. The russian attack hit that and not another HIMARs or ammunition.
Mr_Asa said:In reply to Stampie :
It really is. The explanation given to me for the original designed use was basically something like "so U.S. tanks move in pairs at a minimum, right? What happens when one is getting overrun by enemies on foot? You can't turn the main gun on them, and at the time tbis was designed you couldn't control the smaller guns from inside the tanks like you can now. They needed something to be able to wipe out the infantry attacking the tanks. So, tank sized shotgun."
Took me a bit to wrap my head around that and the mental images it generated, but it was ultimately one of the more enjoyable programs I worked on at GD.
I've been saying for years somebody needs to build a minigun chambered in 10 gauge Magnum shotshell...
stroker said:Mr_Asa said:In reply to Stampie :
It really is. The explanation given to me for the original designed use was basically something like "so U.S. tanks move in pairs at a minimum, right? What happens when one is getting overrun by enemies on foot? You can't turn the main gun on them, and at the time tbis was designed you couldn't control the smaller guns from inside the tanks like you can now. They needed something to be able to wipe out the infantry attacking the tanks. So, tank sized shotgun."
Took me a bit to wrap my head around that and the mental images it generated, but it was ultimately one of the more enjoyable programs I worked on at GD.
I've been saying for years somebody needs to build a minigun chambered in 10 gauge Magnum shotshell...
"You get to drink from... THE FIRE HOSE!"
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