In reply to aircooled :
short trial then firing squad at dawn.
In reply to aircooled :
short trial then firing squad at dawn.
Maybe ship him off to Ukraine to fight for the country that he just did so much potential harm to.
Then there was this (!!!!!).
Caused by Russian incompetence, avoided by Russian incompetence.
The NYTimes just said an Air National Guardsmen, Jack Teixeira was just arrested for the leaks. Member of the Intelligence wing of the Massachusetts Air National Guard.
aircooled said:Maybe ship him off to Ukraine to fight for the country that he just did so much potential harm to.
Then there was this (!!!!!).
Caused by Russian incompetence, avoided by Russian incompetence.
Some countries view a radar lock as an act of war... Does a Rivet Joint have systems to alert to radar locks?
bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :
Name a world leader this does not apply to.
This was my post:
I remember reading a book profiling major figures of European intellectual history. A big takeaway was how many of them were complete sh-ts on a personal level despite how they preached endlessly about loving the people. "I'm going to leave my wife and six kids so that I can run away from my creditors, berkeley duchesses, get drunk a lot and write my magnum opus". This is not unique to the French, but they and the Russians seem to have taken the attitude most to heart.
Do you honestly think that describes all leaders? Frankly, that level of cynicism boggles my mind.
frenchyd said:02Pilot said:France is in some ways the last Western stronghold of traditional nationalism. There is a broadly-held cultural and political belief that France belongs among the leading nations of the world, one that has been created and maintained by the unique history of the last couple hundred years. Yes, France has suffered major defeats - 1814, 1871, and 1940 - but in every case they have been viewed as victims, of an emperor who took advantage of a failed revolution, of German imperialism, and of fascism, respectively, a view strongly shaped and encouraged by their own propaganda. This has promoted a sort of moral high ground on which French political leaders still stand, looking down on everyone around them.
The major irony, of course, is that they spend a lot of time being afraid that someone is going to knock them off that high ground, and they know they're not strong enough to stand on their own (though they won't admit it). So they form alliances and economic ties, for their own advantage, yes, but also to restrict and control the ambitions and efforts of stronger powers like Germany and the US. In an ideal world, France would love to be the leading power in Europe, a modern iteration of Napoleon's Continental System, but it can't because of the existence of Germany. And it would love to be the world's cultural and linguistic center, but it can't because of the existence of the US. So it has bound itself to both as a means to ensure that it still has a seat at the table, and to thwart efforts of the stronger powers to consolidate their respective positions and further weaken France's influence.
You are aware of the massive debt United States owes France aren't you?
Our forefathers were inspired by French writers. French Nobility paid for America's revolutionary war. Not only with money but also with their children's heads as well as their own. France was fighting the British at sea. And sent people to America to help fight the British.
We've discussed this before. It was in France's interest to support an enemy of Britain. Louis XVI had no other reason to support a bunch of rebellious liberals who wanted representative government. Their fleet was decisive, yes, but the French crown was vehemently opposed to the republican ideals for which the American Revolution was fought. As long as they were implemented 3,000 miles away, in a way that hurt Great Britain and wasn't too costly, fine, but that's as far as it went. 1789 made that crystal clear.
And any debt we might have owed was repaid in full in WWI, and again in WWII.
How a wet-behind-the-ears 21-year old Air National Guardsman got his hands on 50-100 pages of high level TS documents is a fairly significant question, the answer to which is probably going to take down a bunch of higher ranking people up the chain. No statement yet on what he's being charged with.
02Pilot said:frenchyd said:02Pilot said:France is in some ways the last Western stronghold of traditional nationalism. There is a broadly-held cultural and political belief that France belongs among the leading nations of the world, one that has been created and maintained by the unique history of the last couple hundred years. Yes, France has suffered major defeats - 1814, 1871, and 1940 - but in every case they have been viewed as victims, of an emperor who took advantage of a failed revolution, of German imperialism, and of fascism, respectively, a view strongly shaped and encouraged by their own propaganda. This has promoted a sort of moral high ground on which French political leaders still stand, looking down on everyone around them.
The major irony, of course, is that they spend a lot of time being afraid that someone is going to knock them off that high ground, and they know they're not strong enough to stand on their own (though they won't admit it). So they form alliances and economic ties, for their own advantage, yes, but also to restrict and control the ambitions and efforts of stronger powers like Germany and the US. In an ideal world, France would love to be the leading power in Europe, a modern iteration of Napoleon's Continental System, but it can't because of the existence of Germany. And it would love to be the world's cultural and linguistic center, but it can't because of the existence of the US. So it has bound itself to both as a means to ensure that it still has a seat at the table, and to thwart efforts of the stronger powers to consolidate their respective positions and further weaken France's influence.
You are aware of the massive debt United States owes France aren't you?
Our forefathers were inspired by French writers. French Nobility paid for America's revolutionary war. Not only with money but also with their children's heads as well as their own. France was fighting the British at sea. And sent people to America to help fight the British.We've discussed this before. It was in France's interest to support an enemy of Britain. Louis XVI had no other reason to support a bunch of rebellious liberals who wanted representative government. Their fleet was decisive, yes, but the French crown was vehemently opposed to the republican ideals for which the American Revolution was fought. As long as they were implemented 3,000 miles away, in a way that hurt Great Britain and wasn't too costly, fine, but that's as far as it went. 1789 made that crystal clear.
And any debt we might have owed was repaid in full in WWI, and again in WWII.
This is a bit of a broad brush. Reading detailed accounts of Lafayette for instance shows that, while initially the adventure of an impetuous teen, he grew to fully support the revolution. Too bad Washington and Jefferson didn't listen to him RE slavery at the end of the war.
But obviously Lafayette didn't represent the entirety of France.
02Pilot said:How a wet-behind-the-ears 21-year old Air National Guardsman got his hands on 50-100 pages of high level TS documents is a fairly significant question, the answer to which is probably going to take down a bunch of higher ranking people up the chain. No statement yet on what he's being charged with.
This ought to be interesting. A modern day wikileaks. Given Assange's ties to Russia now, I expected he was involved as a gut reaction.
Pretty different from Assange. This doesn't look politically motivated. It's the work of a lonely 20-something trying to impress 30-some-odd, largely teenage gamers and military fetishists. Pathetic really.
Assange at least had a somewhat plausible claim to be a whistleblower, this is pure leaking as a means to brag.
Fair points. I was not drawing moral equivalency, just noting that they both leaked things very sensitive to the government on the internet. I had no clue as to either parties motivations.
You guys mean that stealing Top Secret documents is actually a CRIME?
Who knew ¯\_(ツ)_/
02Pilot said:frenchyd said:02Pilot said:France is in some ways the last Western stronghold of traditional nationalism. There is a broadly-held cultural and political belief that France belongs among the leading nations of the world, one that has been created and maintained by the unique history of the last couple hundred years. Yes, France has suffered major defeats - 1814, 1871, and 1940 - but in every case they have been viewed as victims, of an emperor who took advantage of a failed revolution, of German imperialism, and of fascism, respectively, a view strongly shaped and encouraged by their own propaganda. This has promoted a sort of moral high ground on which French political leaders still stand, looking down on everyone around them.
The major irony, of course, is that they spend a lot of time being afraid that someone is going to knock them off that high ground, and they know they're not strong enough to stand on their own (though they won't admit it). So they form alliances and economic ties, for their own advantage, yes, but also to restrict and control the ambitions and efforts of stronger powers like Germany and the US. In an ideal world, France would love to be the leading power in Europe, a modern iteration of Napoleon's Continental System, but it can't because of the existence of Germany. And it would love to be the world's cultural and linguistic center, but it can't because of the existence of the US. So it has bound itself to both as a means to ensure that it still has a seat at the table, and to thwart efforts of the stronger powers to consolidate their respective positions and further weaken France's influence.
You are aware of the massive debt United States owes France aren't you?
Our forefathers were inspired by French writers. French Nobility paid for America's revolutionary war. Not only with money but also with their children's heads as well as their own. France was fighting the British at sea. And sent people to America to help fight the British.We've discussed this before. It was in France's interest to support an enemy of Britain. Louis XVI had no other reason to support a bunch of rebellious liberals who wanted representative government. Their fleet was decisive, yes, but the French crown was vehemently opposed to the republican ideals for which the American Revolution was fought. As long as they were implemented 3,000 miles away, in a way that hurt Great Britain and wasn't too costly, fine, but that's as far as it went. 1789 made that crystal clear.
And any debt we might have owed was repaid in full in WWI, and again in WWII.
That sounds exactly like teenagers complaining about their parents. Forgetting they owe their very existence to those parents.
Or a parent complaining to their child how they "gave them life" and that they get no respect for that, and not considering that the child literally saved their life twice, as maybe pretty good payback, and maybe respect should not be an issue anymore.
02Pilot said:How a wet-behind-the-ears 21-year old Air National Guardsman got his hands on 50-100 pages of high level TS documents is a fairly significant question, the answer to which is probably going to take down a bunch of higher ranking people up the chain. No statement yet on what he's being charged with.
You'd be shocked at how young some people are that get clearances. But they aren't given out lightly. A TS clearance takes at least 6 months. And Eyes Only longer ( unless you're the originator).
I was completely shocked whenTom Clancy released his best selling Novel Hunt for Red October about an incident I was involved in Flying over the Sea of Japan.
aircooled said:Maybe ship him off to Ukraine to fight for the country that he just did so much potential harm to.
Then there was this (!!!!!).
Caused by Russian incompetence, avoided by Russian incompetence.
Hey, I remember that part of The Hunt for Red October!
Except it was an American F-15, not a British plane, and the missile did work, although it didn't take the plane down.
Frickin' Shavrov.
Alright guys, spill the beans!
tuna55 said:02Pilot said:How a wet-behind-the-ears 21-year old Air National Guardsman got his hands on 50-100 pages of high level TS documents is a fairly significant question, the answer to which is probably going to take down a bunch of higher ranking people up the chain. No statement yet on what he's being charged with.
This ought to be interesting. A modern day wikileaks. Given Assange's ties to Russia now, I expected he was involved as a gut reaction.
Ugh, it hurts when you say "modern day wikileaks"...wikileaks happened just a couple years ago. Oh wait, no, it was a bit further back than I thought.
+1, storytime guys!
frenchyd said:02Pilot said:How a wet-behind-the-ears 21-year old Air National Guardsman got his hands on 50-100 pages of high level TS documents is a fairly significant question, the answer to which is probably going to take down a bunch of higher ranking people up the chain. No statement yet on what he's being charged with.
You'd be shocked at how young some people are that get clearances. But they aren't given out lightly. A TS clearance takes at least 6 months. And Eyes Only longer ( unless you're the originator).
I was completely shocked whenTom Clancy released his best selling Novel Hunt for Red October about an incident I was involved in Flying over the Sea of Japan.
I had to look it up because I never realized it was based on true events, although it's been a few decades since I've seen it as well. It appears there are two possible "inspirations" for the book, the more favored one is the based around the 1975 mutiny.
https://www.military.com/history/hunt-red-october-based-real-soviet-mutiny.html
My money is on this kid is going to get hung out to dry and nobody of senior rank is going to face punishment for having allowed him to get access to the documents.
stroker said:My money is on this kid is going to get hung out to dry and nobody of senior rank is going to face punishment for having allowed him to get access to the documents.
I think it'll depend on how he acquired the documents, and whether there were systemic failures or not. If he had access because he was the IT guy, and gave himself access, then heads should roll because no one else caught it. If he actually had a use for the documents in his day to day work, it may be less likely that higher ups will get burned.
I'm not questioning someone of his age being given TS clearance - there are a lot of jobs that require it from the get-go - but rather how he came to have access to documents related to national military strategy and multiple international diplomatic intel programs. Either he was a wunderkind who got scooped up for something pretty special, or he was snooping where he shouldn't and hit pay dirt. In the former case, I'd expect him to be buried behind the gates in Fort Meade, not serving with the Mass ANG.
Yeah, it was a very wide spread amount / type of intelligence. Unless he was working on some sort of general world intelligence (in the ANG?!?) it does kind to point that he might have taken more then he was supposed to have access to (which would be a huge issue of course).
It seems like he printed out the Powerpoints and took pictures of those. So he either took pictures in the secured area (seems very unlikely), printed them there (which would be very easy to trace), or snuck the files out (e.g. thumdrive) and printed them at home. He could have sent them out, but that seems super unlikely and also super easy to trace.
It is looking like the intel was at least a few months old, maybe start of year? So... maybe the assessments of Ukraine were more relevant to that time, and things have changed for them recently (more prepared). This of course could have multiple effects. It might motivate Ukraine's allies to give more. It might make Russia over confident. It will very likely create at least a slight re-alignment in Ukraine. So, it COULD end up being a good thing for Ukraine (still not good for US intel gathering though).
It did seem to make clear that Russia is pretty full of holes and leaks intelligence wise though. Much of which is being published on Telegram daily of course!!
Some fun stuff:
Hungarian Prime Minister Orban said that the war will stop as soon as Europe and the United States stop spending money for Ukraine
In addition, he made another enchanting statement: he said that Ukraine is a non-existent country in financial terms, directly dependent on the allies.
At the same time, Hungary once again asks for subsidies from European partners.
Ukraine hid plan for future counteroffensive from Pentagon - Associated Press
Yes, Ukraine did not share plans for a future counteroffensive with the United States due to doubts about Washington's ability to keep secrets. Therefore, a leak of classified documents is unlikely to harm Ukraine on the battlefield.
In particular, this week Ukrainian and US officials said that only Kyiv knows some of the battle plans and other operational information.
Ohhhh Noooooo
Putin cancels Victory parades in Russian regions due to lack of tanks - Atlantic Council.
There will be no parades on May 9 in the Kursk and Belgorod regions, as well as in the Crimea. The official reason is security concerns, as these regions border Ukraine.
But, according to the Atlantic Council, in fact, due to losses on the Russian front, there may simply be a lack of military equipment, which the authorities do not want to admit.
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