Some strange things going on with Prigozhin (Wagner). Apparently on their retreat from Bahkmut they where attacked by a Russian regular army unit (only destroyed a truck). The Wagners took the unit commander and beat the crap out of him and reported that he was drunk. Another day in Russia I guess...
This one
This was the same dam that the Russians keep warning the Ukrainians were going to blow up to flood the Russians near Kherson (which seemed a LOT more like they wanted to blow it up and blame the Ukrainians).
and this one
These two examples clearly show how the russians wage war and that their methods have not changed since WWII
Special squads of troops shot their countrymen in the back so that they would not flee the battlefield, also these troops eliminate those who opposed the regime.
The Soviet army blew up the dam of the Zaporizhzhya hydroelectric power plant in 1941 - thereby drowning their own troops and civilians, but blamed the Germans for what they had done - the truth became known only after the collapse of the USSR.
History repeats itself 
I can recommend a movie to get a little insight into what was going on at the time.
"The penal battalion" (2004) made by russia, but it is one of the true war movies. I'm not sure if it's available in English version, but there's the version with ENG subtitles.
Why is it that the ones that scream about their constitutional rights the most are the ones that least understand them?
In reply to VikkiDp :
This is what Vikki is referring to:
The Penal Battalion (2004) Original Title: Штрафбат
Its a TV series, but only currently available on Amazon Prime for purchase. https://www.amazon.com/Penal-Battalion/dp/B075LT4TB4
(cited links look to work in my copy/paste but are otherwise active/available in original post)
https://twitter.com/VolodyaTretyak/status/1666015265971118082
Volodomyr Tretyak said:
Very important on #Kakhovka. The chronology of the terrorist attack by Russian terrorists. Or how Russians screwed in their excuses. At two o'clock in the morning, the Russians blow up the Kakhovka hydroelectric power station, but they don't see how much. It's not very visible, but it can still hit.
1. The Russians still think that they have neatly blown up a small part of the HPP and are flooding our military on the islands. At 6:06 a.m., the head of Nova Kakhovka, Leontyev, said that the explosion of the GES was nonsense. Like, we don't know why the water rose there. Here is the link to Ria Novosti's http://archive.is/aTyK8
2. Russian OSINT intelligence community Rybar picks up the thesis and says a small area was blown up at 6:51 a.m. Link http://archive.ph/flapa
3. At 6:51 in Nova Kakhovka, they see that the dam is a complete ass, and the mom's stratagems start to realize that they are in trouble. The mayor of Nova Kakhovka abruptly changes his rhetoric and says there was no explosion, it was a shelling by the Ukrainian army. Link http://archive.ph/LFFKF
4. But the propagandists, who do not know what the berkeley has happened, continue to work according to the methodology and continue to throw into the information space that the dam was previously shelled, and then it got a little tired and broke a little. Here is a post by Podolyaki's propagandist http://archive.ph/DgQIV. And the propaganda channel War on Fakes http://archive.ph/GRN55
5. Other telegram channels that cooperate with the military are happily hopping on one leg, cheering, because of the undermining of the Kakhovka dam, the positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces on the islands are flooded, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are trying to evacuate and escape, and then they publish joyful reports of how they are hitting the positions of our guys on the islands. 08:25 Link http://archive.ph/c0iHL
6. Here, the Russians are slowly realizing that they have created a large-scale man-made environmental disaster, almost as large as Chernobyl. And they are starting to reverse. Russian influence on the information space is changing its tone dramatically. They instantly change their tune and start accusing the Ukrainian side of provocations. Like it's a Bankova operation A reference to the same "war on fakes" that said the dam had somehow collapsed on its own.... http://archive.ph/x8uwT But even in their excuses, the racists still screwed up. Either the dam was blown up, or Olha was shelled with MLRS.... http://archive.ph/uF0Xm Although any sapper will give a hundred percent guarantee that it is impossible to make such destruction from the outside, the damage here was done by planting explosives And then they are already beginning to adhere to this thesis, because what they have done is a huge international tragedy, especially in the environmental sense.
I have translated this text from https://t.me/jurnko Telegram channel
Also, President Zelenskyy may or may not have publicly stated that exactly this would happen:
https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-mined-a-ukrainian-dam-planned-false-flag-attack-zelenskyy-2022-10?amp
- Ukraine accused Russia of planting mines along a key hydroelectric dam.
- Zelenskyy said Russia may blast the dam and cause a great flood it would seek to blame Ukraine for.
- Downstream from the dam is the occupied Kherson region, where Ukraine has made steady advances.
As I'm now 7 hours into the 24 hours of D-Day, I'm glad that the "stop the madness" thinking didn't happen 80 years ago. Noting that the losses in France didn't stop at all when they agreed to surrender.
Imagine if we decided to let Great Britain fall just because we wanted the killing to stop.
Thankfully, we didn't. And we should not now.
In reply to Hungary Bill (Forum Supporter) :
There's been telegram posts from Russians that also say they've mined the dam to blow as far back as Winter 2022.
No idea what this'll do as to fresh water to Crimea. The damn blowing is also flooding Russian positions too and they're having to leave without a proper evacuation it seems.
alfadriver said:
As I'm now 7 hours into the 24 hours of D-Day, I'm glad that the "stop the madness" thinking didn't happen 80 years ago. Noting that the losses in France didn't stop at all when they agreed to surrender.
Imagine if we decided to let Great Britain fall just because we wanted the killing to stop.
Thankfully, we didn't. And we should not now.
My only regret is that I have but one like to give.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
GIRTHQUAKE said:
In reply to Hungary Bill (Forum Supporter) :
There's been telegram posts from Russians that also say they've mined the dam to blow as far back as Winter 2022.
No idea what this'll do as to fresh water to Crimea. The damn blowing is also flooding Russian positions too and they're having to leave without a proper evacuation it seems.
The whole scenario is absolutely insane on a level that's nuts even for the russians...
I seem to remember having read somewhere that dams like this are considered "protected" during times of war. That intentionally blowing it up would be considered the equivalent of detonating a WMD (because of the humanitarian and environmental disaster it would cause). I'm curious to see what (if any) the response will be.
The new info appears to be (some stated above):
- The Russians mined the dam
- The seemed to have intended a smaller release, but, Russia, screwed that up.
- The had closed the spill gates previous to the explosion to bring the water level up (clearly implying the pre-meditation)
- The current release is flooding Russian as well as Ukrainian positions.
- The rush of water is also apparently washed away some minefields... to end up somewhere else...?
They have likely cut the primary water supply for Crimea (which of course they currently occupy):
And... there are reports the water level of the cooling pond for the nuclear power plant is lowering (might just be the result of switching to it, or not closing the gates to the main lake (?) I would think they could easily power it down if needed.
So.... in one move, the Russians have potentially cut both a primary water supply and a primary source of power... for their OWN territory (occupied of course).
I cannot imagine what the situation is like for people in Crimea now. No more water, maybe not more power, oh, and by the way, your primary way out (the Kerch bridge) appears to have some serious issues, not to mention a huge target on it!
Thinking out loud: What happens when all that fresh water hits the Black sea?
In reply to Hungary Bill (Forum Supporter) :
Yes, and also because it feeds the nuclear power plant. Supposedly they have plans to keep it from overheating when the water level drops too low, but this could genuinely be an existential threat.
GIRTHQUAKE said:
In reply to Hungary Bill (Forum Supporter) :
Yes, and also because it feeds the nuclear power plant. Supposedly they have plans to keep it from overheating when the water level drops too low, but this could genuinely be an existential threat.
Evaporation will become an issue, but I would hope they can either get enough water from another supply, or truck in enough to deal with it, assuming they put the final reactor in cold shutdown.
Hungary Bill (Forum Supporter) said:
Thinking out loud: What happens when all that fresh water hits the Black sea?
I would suspect, not much. It's just going to get an increased amount until the lake empties.
Probably more serious: The BBC is reporting: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65818705
The river has also been contaminated with 150 tonnes of industrial lubricant, said President Volodymyr Zelensky, and another 300 tonnes was at risk of leaking.
Hungary Bill (Forum Supporter) said:
Thinking out loud: What happens when all that fresh water hits the Black sea?
Comparing the size of the Black Sea to the reservoir, probably not much other than a temporary ecological impact in the immediate river inlet zone.
Just a WAG, but it's possible destruction of the dam is a precursor and/or excuse for Russia to withdraw from Crimea.
In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :
If aircooled's post above is correct, it sounds like they were just planning on making it harder for the Ukrainians to get equipment across the river, but royally berkeleyed up.
My understanding is that 4 of 5 reactors were already powered down and that the remaining one is opeerating at a reduced level, so hopefully that won't go to hell also.
A younger, more liberal version of myself used to call America's foreign policy Baby Huey. Well the sh-tshow that is Russian strategy makes Baby Huey look like a MIT grad.
In reply to aircooled :
With that oil and petroleum spill, I wonder if the russians intended to set fire to the top of the river to prevent Ukraine from moving material across.
Some indication that the Ukrainians may have started their general offensive. If this is the case, information releases will get interesting.
Which might also explain the timing of the Dam demolition.
https://mil.in.ua/uk/news/minoborony-rf-vydalo-silgosptehniku-za-tanky-leopard/
Looks like the Russians have destroyed some "Leopard" tanks. If you don't want to see the carnage.
Yeah, I saw that video and I was wondering, why the heck are these "tanks" just sitting in the open in a field, if they are part of some offensive operation! At least they should be moving, and if not moving, in some cover. It's kind of the equivalents of a soldier going into the middle of a field during a fight, and sitting on a chair!
I am more waiting for the open source (generally taken from satellites and social media leaks) info.
The always trustful (!!!) Russian minister of defense says:
Ukraine's total losses over the three days of fighting amounted to 3,715 service members, 52 tanks, 207 armored fighting vehicles, five aircraft, two helicopters and 48 artillery pieces, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu said in a statement on Tuesday.
Claimed enemy loss estimates are almost ALWAYS exaggerated, for various reasons. Expect no less from both sides.... maybe more from one of them.
Here is an image of the river before and after. I am pretty sure the after is just an estimation of the flood plane, but the result should be similar:
Also of note: Apparently there has been a request by the Ukrainian military for some of the open sources (everyon really) not to publish any updates for a few days, so updates might be pretty vague for a bit, at least any map style updates. There is clearly fighting going on, but uncertain if there are any major pushes.
The Russian have reportedly blown up some storage ponds they had previously filled near Melitopol (expected area of attack) in order to flood some fields. This of course is exactly what the Germans did during D-day (today!), to try and slow down the Allies. Obviously reinforces the concept that the Russians blew the dam to restrict Ukrainian mobility.
https://mil.in.ua/uk/news/u-krymu-rosiyany-zbyly-vlasnyj-bpla-mohajer-6/
In Crimea, the Russians shot down their own Mohajer-6 UAV
It was on the internet, so it must be true.
And in other news, the Swiss!
https://mil.in.ua/uk/news/shvejtsariya-pogodyla-reeksport-zbroyi-v-ukrayinu/
The upper house of the Swiss parliament approved the re-export of weapons to Ukraine
Which means before this was approved that if the Swiss sold weapons to A, A would not be allowed to re-sell the weapons to someone else.
Now A can re-sell Swiss made weapons to Ukraine. (A is not code for anything, I just did not feel like putting a countries name in that slot)
In reply to Noddaz :
So, the most neutral country in the world is an arms exporter?
