Home electrical question

In reply to T.J. :

Thank you. 

T.J. said:

In reply to SVreX :

They protect against a ground fault. They look at neutral and hot current and compare them. They should be the same. If there is a fault to ground ( like through a human) they will sense that all the current going to the load from the hot is not all coming back on the neutral, so it must be going to ground and then they trip to turn the circuit off.

Doesn't protect against an issue with the ground wire. 

So in other words no ground wire necessary like I said. Ground wires are required by code, but in a perfectly functioning circuit the ground does absolutely nothing. Grounding and bonding is absolutely important for safety, but won't make a gfci work or not. 

So the GFCI that I installed is probably bad then? (cursory Google says Leviton GFCIs are less reliable, that's what this one is).

Worked on this some more today. First I picked up some "commercial grade" outlets ($1.98 vs $.48). I had intended to run a ground wire through the conduit, but my box does not have a separate ground bar so I put that on hold until I can talk to someone who knows how to deal with that. Decided to hook up the first outlet and see if anything's different. Using my outlet tester (Home Depot brand), got a "correct" reading. Using a borrowed outlet tester (Sperry brand), got an "open hot" reading. So this is a pair of wires running from the breaker to the outlet, nothing else is hooked up. I'm now thinking I have a bad breaker or bad wires, I think the breaker is more likely. This has been quite the odyssey of tediousness.

slowride said:

Worked on this some more today. First I picked up some "commercial grade" outlets ($1.98 vs $.48). I had intended to run a ground wire through the conduit, but my box does not have a separate ground bar so I put that on hold until I can talk to someone who knows how to deal with that. Decided to hook up the first outlet and see if anything's different. Using my outlet tester (Home Depot brand), got a "correct" reading. Using a borrowed outlet tester (Sperry brand), got an "open hot" reading. So this is a pair of wires running from the breaker to the outlet, nothing else is hooked up. I'm now thinking I have a bad breaker or bad wires, I think the breaker is more likely. This has been quite the odyssey of tediousness.

Journeyman Electrician here. If your service is the first disconnect in the line, it doesn't need  a separate ground bar, the ground and neutral are bonded at the first disconnect point. If you have a sub-panel they have to be separate.

 A bad neutral can cause all sorts of crazy readings. This happens when the neutral is shared with another hot. stab in receptacles can cause all sorts of problems. It is best to pig tail everything.

You do not need a ground with a GFCI, but I think you already figured that out.

Mazdax605 said:

T.J. said:

In reply to SVreX :

They protect against a ground fault. They look at neutral and hot current and compare them. They should be the same. If there is a fault to ground ( like through a human) they will sense that all the current going to the load from the hot is not all coming back on the neutral, so it must be going to ground and then they trip to turn the circuit off.

Doesn't protect against an issue with the ground wire. 

So in other words no ground wire necessary like I said. Ground wires are required by code, but in a perfectly functioning circuit the ground does absolutely nothing. Grounding and bonding is absolutely important for safety, but won't make a gfci work or not. 

Yes, but T.J.'s explanation of the principle on which GFCIs work (and thus why ground isn't necessary for that mechanism to work) added a lot. It's a forum full of gearheads; I'd like to think most of us rest easier if we understand what we're doing and why we're doing it, and that may go double for house wiring. Not to diminish the accurate info you gave.

Thanks guys!

I do need to check the breaker screws but I thought the connection was tight. I also have another breaker that's open that I can switch the hot to, that should be a good test.

As far as I can tell the neutral is not shared, I will look again. This was all wired with quickwire backstabs initially so I'm thinking that's the root cause here. 

Hmm...  1979 build... you didn't happen to notice if the wires are aluminum?

In reply to Ian F :

No, they are definitely copper.