How do you spot a counterfeit money order?

Please, somebody help me out with this one.

I just sold one of my cars, for full price, to an out of state buyer. He overnighted me a money order for the full amount. It's drawn on a small bank somewhere deep in the south. I look the bank up online and they do exist.

My dad got burned for $8000 when he sold his car on eBay and got a fake bank check. Since I can't take the m/o to the bank it's drawn on and cash it, I don't want to release the car.

Monday I will call the bank and ask them a barrage of questions to determine if the m/o is real.

In the meantime, does anyone know of anything obvious I would see on the physical m/o that would tell me if it's real or fake?

My boss got taken by one where the "watermark" was actually an image that was printed on the reverse in light grey ink. From the back it just looked like part of the design, but the front had a big oval that begged for you to hold it up to the light. Presto, watermark. Very clever, that one.

I would not release posession of the car until the money order clears the bank, and that takes about as long as a check. No ifs, ands or butts. Any argument from the buyer is a guarantee that the MO is a fake.

My bank told me that the m/o would clear overnight (because of my account standing) but that if it's fake, "sometime in the next 6 to 8 weeks, the amount would be debited" from my account.

So, basically, the m/o would clear and then in 6-8 weeks, if the bank deemed it fake, they'd take the money back. In which case, I wouldn't have the money or the car. This is exactly what happened to my dad.

What's the name of the Bank. Several things you can look for. Should have double signatures (because of the amount), perforated edges (probably on the bottom), the paper should feel thicker. Every Bank is different. I would suggest calling the Bank (one in the deep south) on Monday and usually they can verify the check.

Post more information and I can help. I spent 4 years in banking.

Thought of something else. Google Map the Bank using the name and town only. Don't use the address. This will verify the existence of the Bank at least.

M030 wrote: My bank told me that the m/o would clear overnight (because of my account standing) but that if it's fake, "sometime in the next 6 to 8 weeks, the amount would be debited" from my account. So, basically, the m/o would clear and then in 6-8 weeks, if the bank deemed it fake, they'd take the money back. In which case, I wouldn't have the money or the car. This is exactly what happened to my dad.

Honestly, I wouldn't even mess with this. This is why Craiglist makes such a huge point of not dealing with out of state or non-local buyers: people get scammed.

If I were in the position, I wouldnt release the car until you've got cash in hand and knowfor certain that you won't be responsible for a fake money order. Even it it takes 8 weeks, I'd wait it out.

Fool me once...(or someone I know quite well, for that matter)...

Simple.
Send back the money order - period.

When the car is picked up, the person or service picking it up can give you cash if they want to take the car immediately.
or
The buyer can use a bank check but the buyer must wait for the check to clear before the car leaves your possession.

M030 wrote: for full price... to an out of state buyer... He overnighted me a money order for the full amount.

Was your asking price and car condition really worth full price? Likely not.

Out of State: did the buyer ever see the car in person?

Overnighted MO: sending a fake MO through the Post Office is Mail Fraud and a felony - if caught. The best way to send a fake MO is overnight.

YOU - ARE - BEING - SCAMMED!

Sounds like SCAM to me, too. I'm with jrw1621. Send it back and tell them to just bring cash when they pick it up. If it's being shipped, they can figure out how to ship you cash too. Even banks have trouble telling if it is real these days, from what I've seen. I would at a minimum do a yellow pages lookup of the bank and see if they exist, not look at the check for an address/number. And is the bank address in the same area as the buyer? Too many scammers today.

jrw1621 wrote: YOU - ARE - BEING - SCAMMED!

Not if he still has the money order, and the car, he's not.

The m/o does have a perforated edge. The paper seems the same as my own checks. The bank does exist. I think, for now, the car will not leave my possession. Monday I will call the bank that issued (or supposedly issued) it and find out if it's real. It was sent to me priority overnight with the USPS.

The possible red flags:

1. The guy didn't ask any questions about the car.

2. My bank doesn't issue money orders for over $600. The one I received is for substantially more than $600. Maybe each bank is different?

3. The amount is printed in digits only on the front and hand written in the box on the right. It's printed in numerical digits only. Nowhere on the check is the amount spelled out in words.

Maybe I'll scan it in and see if any of you can look at it to tell if it's obviously fake.

More red flags:

The bank's address and phone number are nowhere on the money order. There is a bank logo, a bank name and a bank website.

I typed in the URL and they do exist.

All that being said, the manager at my bank thinks it "looks real"

M030 wrote: 1. The guy didn't ask any questions about the car.

It's fake.

Scam, big time. If he wants the car, he'll do the transaction in a bank with you, transferring the funds to your account from his account using the bank. If he won't do the transaction at a bank branch, he's a scammer.

M030 wrote: The m/o does have a perforated edge. The paper seems the same as my own checks. The bank does exist. I think, for now, the car will not leave my possession. Monday I will call the bank that issued (or supposedly issued) it and find out if it's real. It was sent to me priority overnight with the USPS. The possible red flags: 1. The guy didn't ask any questions about the car. 2. My bank doesn't issue money orders for over $600. The one I received is for substantially more than $600. Maybe each bank is different? 3. The amount is printed in digits only on the front and hand written in the box on the right. It's printed in numerical digits only. Nowhere on the check is the amount spelled out in words. Maybe I'll scan it in and see if any of you can look at it to tell if it's obviously fake.

HUGE Red flag. That is not a negotiable instrument within the meaning of the law. Your bank should not accept it without having the amount written and numerical.

I have to agree, this = scam.

I would tell your bank the circumstances you received it under and ask them for further advice. They may be able to call the bank to verify the existence of the funds before it goes through.

The other alternative is to find someone trustworthy to take the MO to the nearest branch of that bank and cash it. If you take it to that bank you don't need an account to cash it there...

Now if youre not deep south and they are, that could be a problem. I'd tell the guy youre waiting for it to clear... but that sounds like a pain when from everything you've said I don't think this is legit. You might as well just tell him that you suspect the MO is fraudulent, that you will return it to him, and ask him to pay via paypal, or via US Postal money order, or western union, or whatever.

And to keep this from happening again, specify what money orders you accept in your auction.

Anymore, I never take anything other than US Postal service and Western union, because they both can be cashed anywhere and they have lots of security features that the person cashing them will look for before they cash them.

Tear up the money order and find another buyer.

Money orders are notorious for being fake. I think it is fair to say that you should never accept one. Unless it is from your Mom or Dad. And then if your Mom or Dad smokes crack, does meth or is Nigerian (you know the famous Nigerian internet scam) you should not take if one from them.

I didn't even read all the responses.

But here is my advice: 1. If you feel nice call him and send and let him know the deal is off and send it back to the so called buyer 2. If you don't feel nice call him and tell him the deal is off because of the money order

If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

To mix my metaphors, this smells fishy to me.

Keep us posted, wouldja?

Thanks guys! I know what I've got to do now.

Meantime, anybody want to buy a nice 944?

M030 wrote: . It was sent to me priority overnight with the USPS.

I think it may be worth it to visit your local Post Office and ask to speak to the Postmaster. I smell mail fraud.

M030 wrote: My bank told me that the m/o would clear overnight (because of my account standing) but that if it's fake, "sometime in the next 6 to 8 weeks, the amount would be debited" from my account. So, basically, the m/o would clear and then in 6-8 weeks, if the bank deemed it fake, they'd take the money back. In which case, I wouldn't have the money or the car. This is exactly what happened to my dad.

Then you don't release the car (or sign the title or bill of sale) for 6-8 weeks. If he wants you to wait, so can he, if he's legitimate.

OTOH-if he bitches about it, tell him how lucky he is that he's not going to need some soap-on-a-rope for stealing from you.

M030 wrote: Thanks guys! I know what I've got to do now. Meantime, anybody want to buy a nice 944?

Dude, I'm glad you didn't get scammed...but I just got stupid and bought an Alfa.

Hell, if there's anyone on earth that's looking for a 944, you'll find them here.

/Godfather voice:
Did you have it in the classifieds here before you offered it outside the family?
\Godfather voice.

I always offer whatever car I'm trying to sell to " the family" first. Here's the link the the 944:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/classifieds/1015/

You guys are the best. One more reason why I spend way too much of my free time on the GRM discussion boards.

Face to face in your bank only. Cash goes from his hand to your hand then to your account. The bank has people to notorise the title for you. They shouldnt charge you as you are giving them a substatial deposit.

M030 wrote: I always offer whatever car I'm trying to sell to " the family" first. Here's the link the the 944: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/classifieds/1015/ You guys are the best. One more reason why I spend way too much of my free time on the GRM discussion boards.

Nice car. I'll have a 944 one day...but not today.

Trust me, dude..the GTV6 I found needs a GRM kinda guy, or it's dead.

Otherwise, we'd be talking. Good luck with the sale!