In reply to lnlogauge :
I've had lots of stupid mishaps with those darned things. But honestly, I was using them wrong.
They all come with instructions, and I failed to read them. Now I know how to use them.
I still don't like them. They are annoying as crap. But I haven't spilled a drop in years.
Driven5 said:SV reX said:But the risk is you may be asked to remove it from a race venue...
From what I've seen, if you go to a race venue, it'll generally easier to count the number of amateur teams NOT using that style of "was for fuel, until it wasn't" jug with its added nudge-nudge-wink-wink disclaimer.
I understand your annoyance with them. Me too. But I spent several years working in a chemical plant, and we burned the place down 3 times. I'm not gonna give a pass on failure to label containers properly. It's just lazy.
My opinion is that a public forum is a great place to share ideas that IMPROVE our understanding of how to do things better. We all have bad habits. Mostly because we are unaware of the mistakes we are making.
Working to improve safety, environmental impact, and controlling hazardous and volatile substances is NOT a bad thing. It's good to develop better habits.
I agree that there are lots of bad designs for fuel can vapor lock lids. That doesn't mean everyone with a number on his car door has a God-given right to ignore the good ideas and encourage bad ones.
Why can't we offer suggestions of some of the good ideas we've seen, or the good habits? I'd rather not be part of a group whose attitude is nearly "we are racers, and therefore we don't have to give a E36 M3 about those stupid green ideas".
In reply to SV reX :
You misunderstand. My annoyance for them went away years ago, when I was able to go all electric around the house.
I'm simply stating that nobody has ever been asked to remove a non-EPA compliant refueling container from the track. That is probably because, as best I can tell, track use is not an EPA consideration at this time. In fact, the EPA even has a specific exemption for containers designed exclusively for racing refueling use, that have features (namely quick dump) which prevent them from being used for fuel in other applications. This is why the Hunsaker type jugs don't need the same disclaimer.
In reply to Driven5 :
True, but people have been fined by law enforcement or the DOT for improperly transporting fuel. And track incidents have happened with spillage or injury caused by improper containers.
All containers should be labeled properly. It's ridiculously easy.
I use two of these for the track for between session fuelling. I have never been annoyed by the function of the compliant nozzle. It is slower then a traditional spout so for quick refueling it is less then perfect. You simply push the button and it dispenses gas.
It was about $10 more expensive then the ones with the wierd Spring loaded twist nozzles but in my experience it has been worth that.
EvanB said:Like this but with more home depot and less $20 VP racing part.
If you're DIYing it, note that the clamps used on the VP racing part are oetiker-style, which are low profile. A normal worm gear clamp on there makes it too fat to fit into the filler port, at least on my BMW.
SV reX said:In reply to lnlogauge :
I've had lots of stupid mishaps with those darned things. But honestly, I was using them wrong.
They all come with instructions, and I failed to read them. Now I know how to use them.
I still don't like them. They are annoying as crap. But I haven't spilled a drop in years.
I did point it at myself when using once, but other than that I've used them as instructed. I don't see how those instructions helped you much. Not all fills have a good surface to catch the latch. Also, 5 gallons is alot to manage while trying to hold the thing on an edge. its a E36 M3 design.
In reply to lnlogauge :
Then buy a different can. Several have been suggested in this thread. Some work well.
You are storing gasoline in a container labeled diesel. Diesel is not flammable. Gasoline is highly flammable.
It's not cool, and there is no reason to do it.
SV reX said:In reply to lnlogauge :
...Diesel is not flammable ...
If we are going to nit pick, this is not totally accurate ...
In reply to Slippery :
And oh good lord are we going to nit pick.
nocones said:
I use two of these for the track for between session fuelling. I have never been annoyed by the function of the compliant nozzle. It is slower then a traditional spout so for quick refueling it is less then perfect. You simply push the button and it dispenses gas.
It was about $10 more expensive then the ones with the wierd Spring loaded twist nozzles but in my experience it has been worth that.
I surmise this design was presented to the manufacturer by an employee who was on their second glass of Franzia. Brilliant!
SV reX said:
Why can't we offer suggestions of some of the good ideas we've seen, or the good habits? I'd rather not be part of a group whose attitude is nearly "we are racers, and therefore we don't have to give a E36 M3 about those stupid green ideas".
Bring back the old fashioned cans seems to be the general consensus suggestion.
Letting lawmakers and bureaucrats who don't use the things push designs is like letting lawmakers and bureaucrats who can't use their iphones regulate internet and technology, berkeleying stupid at best and beyond dangerous at worst.
There have been so many threads on this through the years that specifics are lost to me, but at one point, *known industry member with actual friends and colleagues in these places* had posted a link or a conversation he had with some alphabet group about the cans that just worked and why they were "bad". I don't remember it being very convincing.
Edited because I didn't like how parts came across.
lnlogauge said:In reply to Slippery :
And oh good lord are we going to nit pick.
Don't pick on the nits! What did they ever do to you?
Are you guys complaining about all the freedom you have down there? 
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/search-results.html?q=gas%20can
IGrtechguy said:I keep looking at this style. But, don't want to pay that much
If you've ever stood on a wooden ladder trying to pour gas into a 1 1/2" hole on the top of an airplane wing, you'll pay! Great invention.
Slippery said:SV reX said:In reply to lnlogauge :
...Diesel is not flammable ...
If we are going to nit pick, this is not totally accurate ...
Check your definitions.
Diesel is combustible, but not flammable. Flammable liquids have a flash point less than 100*F. Diesel flash point is between 120*F and 180*F (depending on blend). Gasoline flash point is -49*F.
I saw brousing the Canada web page and came across this....Wouldn't this can need to be held higher than the tank your filling? From the instruction I have the impression you have to pump the handle! The review read that it comes in handy for refilling your electric generator during a power outage.
SV reX said:Check your definitions.
From what I can tell this used to be the case, but OSHA changed their definition in 2012 to match the international one, so now "flammable" liquids are those with a flash point below 93C (about 200F).
https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1926/1926.152
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
Hmm...
I guess that depends on whether we want to go by OSHA standards... but then, the cans would HAVE to be red with a yellow stripe! 
Im referencing the NFPA standard. They seem to know a little about fire!
lnlogauge said:In reply to SV reX :
In the same token, I question what standard the vapor lock requirement meets. Im sure it keeps vapors in better. Was that the only design requirement though? Must hold in vapors. Ignore the part where you can't pour without gas going everywhere. Or nearly everyone that uses the thing gets fed up with it, and takes the spout off anytime they want to use it. But, the vapors are locked in! The last time I tried to fill my mower, I ended up with gas all over me trying to use the vapor lock spout. Thank god those vapors are locked in, that could have been dangerous!
Whoever is in charge of these standards, shouldn't be.
My WAG theory is the "no vapor" devices were engineered with perfect manufacturing in mind. Once corporate bean counters start looking for ways to cut costs, the tolerances go to crap and how well they work in the real world becomes dubious.
Second, while I don't disagree RTFM can mitigate fuel spillage let's face it, the average person will not RTFM. Something like a gas can needs to be as idiot-proof as possible and not require reading instructions.
SV reX said:In reply to lnlogauge :
Gasoline is highly flammable.
Nope. You can extinguish a match in gasoline. Its gasoline vapor that's flammable.
You know, if we're being pedantic
SV reX said:In reply to RevRico :
Couldn't care less about the alphabet agencies. But it is foolish for me to try to guess WHY it doesn't meet a standard. What I know is that it doesn't meet the standard. Perhaps that's because it's has a goofy spout. Perhaps that's because the material will break down when exposed to volatile products. Perhaps it's because some beurocrat wasn't paid a bribe. Perhaps there is a legitimate risk of fire or damage that I haven't considered.
Very likely that it doesn't meet transport specs. If you can use it at a track, but not in a vehicle then its because DOT, NHTSA, or some other agency hasn't approved it for storage in a moving vehicle. Whether that's some sort of packaging testing or whatnot.
Mr_Asa said:Very likely that it doesn't meet transport specs.
The original reason why the VP-style jugs became "not approved for fuel" was evaporative emissions regulations, because they don't have any means to capture the vapors that are being displaced out of the fuel tank when you add fuel. The ones everyone hates are supposed to put those vapors in the fuel jug, which is why they don't have an atmospheric vent fitting either.
And yeah, the biggest problem with them is that they're engineered to be as cheap as possible, which means they just don't work and usually wind up spilling a bunch of fuel on the ground (which then all evaporates and makes way more emissions than the jug ever saves).
I buy these for my lanterns and camp stoves then when thet are empty I paint them red and use them for my chainsaw and outboard motor fuel
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