If you were raised religious but are not now, why not?

I'm reluctantly posting this.

When I believed the gentle lies many people tell their children (Easter bunny, Santa Claus, etc.) I also believed in the religion that was practiced in my family. The older I got, the more religion seemed to be an elaborate lie with the weight of both group thought and traditional power structures behind it. 

I now view religion through the lens of the practitioners. Since the focus seems to be on mainly the Christian faith, I'll offer two opinions. Fred Rogers was an amazing human being. Conversely every single Prosperity theologian is reprehensible.
In a more broad sense, people who are thoughtful, tolerant, compassionate and who take responsibility for their everyday actions seem to be pretty good people more often than not, whatever their religious outlook, background, socio-economic status, nationality and so on happen to be. 

As for what happens after death, who knows? Who cares? 
 
I'll offer this bit of advice for free: People generally don't like it when their core beliefs are challenged, and almost never change these beliefs quickly. Beliefs can also exist in the face of facts to the contrary. 
 

mtn said:

In reply to RevRico :

I've been to some black baptist services. Definitely an experience. I enjoyed it, but they take way too long.

Sinbad the comedian has a new show and he compares the differences between a white and black church; assuming the same denomination.  

Really funny.  

In reply to Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) :

Well, as Ken Ham and many other faithful will proudly tell you, "That's why we call it faith."

I was brought up Roman Catholic, once I realized how much that organization spends on civil and legal defense of despicable and vulgar acts, I was out. Consider it an economic sanction for their atrocities against children. 

Reminds me of a time when my in-laws were at a family event with my grandmother.  They apparently had a biblical question to ask of her as she was known to be quite involved in her church so they started with "June, you are a religious woman..."   And she stopped them cold right there.

Her answer was "I have a strong personal relationship with my lord and savior, but I am not religious"   And that about sums up how I've felt most of my life.  Its one thing to have faith and belief, but like most "clubs" I care little for the trappings of religions, most of which exist to exploit or pervert a person's faith or beliefs.

I will say I've met some religious leaders who break the mold and are honestly good and humble people, but they are few and far between.

If anyone wants to see how I came to my atheistic views, watch Julia Sweeney's Letting Go Of God. It's a pretty similar path to how I got to where I am. It's funny, sometimes sad, and I believe an extremely fair look at how critical thinking brings people to dispense with religion.

KyAllroad said:

Fun story related to religion:  As I said in my post above, the churches I attended growing up were very bland.  To the point that they never officially DEFINED themselves.  So the name of our primary church was the First Christian Church of (Hometown) so I was a christian.

At 18 I left home for the army and one of the first things we did was fill out a lot of forms.  One of which asked for my religious affiliation and being a good government form it was a multiple choice list with choices.  Top one was Protestant, then Catholic, Baptist, Jewish, Muslim, etc etc.  Well I was pretty sleep deprived and mentally stunned  at this point in the induction process and NONE of those said "Christian" which was what I thought of myself as.  But all the way at the bottom of the list was Christian Scientist.  I figured I was a christian with scientific leanings so that must be it, right?  

My drill sergeant pulled me aside about a week later to ask me about it at which point I realized I'd made an error.  When I got to permanent party I had new dog tags made and every 6 months I'd tell the records review clerk it was a mistake and that my records should say "no affiliation".  They never changed it and somewhere in a dusty filing cabinet there is a form saying that I'm a Christian Scientist.  Sigh.

I have a couple of stories I like to tell.  First one is simular to yours.  When I was in basic training I voluntered to do guard duty every Sunday so that the other guys in my flight could go to church.  I loved it.  I got the whole place to myself and because I did it every Sunday I never got guard duty at E36 M3ty times like 4am.  After a few Sundays our TI (Training Instrutor for you non AF types) called in the guy that did the schdule and chewed him out for making me miss Sunday church time every week.  The poor kid tried to explain that I had asked for it so the TI called me in.  When I explained that I was an Atheist he didn't know what to say.  I think I was the first one that he had to deal with but he let me keep my Sunday guard duty.

As I posted earlier Lil Stampie went to a private Presbyterian school.  When I was filling out the application religious preference was one of the lines.  I didn't know what my ex wanted to put so I left it blank and asked her later.  I then forgot to go back and put in whatever she said.  When we toured the school a few days later I thought it was weird that the lady giving the tour kept saying things like "we're not here to make little Presbyerians" and "religion isn't forced on the kids" until it hit me that I forgot to fill out that line.

I normally don't advertise my religion because it's just something I don't do.  When Lil Stampie was in 6th grade I did get a FSM tshirt figuring that really the only people that would notice were people like me.  Lil Stampie came home one day excited to tell me that they were studying something about religion and schools and the FSM story came up.  He then said "Yeah I told my teacher that you have that tshirt!".  Thanks kid for outting me to your Presbyerian school.

I'll throw a curveball in here. A good chunk of my upbringing was in Scientology. I could literally write a book on it. Why did I quit? Well a core conceit of the "religion" is that they have quasi-scientific processes that free the mind from all the bad crap that it carries along. Well those processes didn't work for me. I was still neurotic and afraid. So I quit.

Takeaways? It's damn expensive. The 10 percent tithe that Mormons give seems quaint by perspective. How expensive? Well my dad started rich and by the time he died of a stroke, he had next to nothing. Fortunately I was able to relieve him of the family getaway cabin before it too was squandered. There's also corrupt management and the way they attack their perceived enemies is  borderline criminal

I feel obligated to mention the plusses: First, they have some pretty solid teachings when it comes to human interactions. I learned a lot about people through the church that would have taken me a lot longer to figure out on my own. They also are adamant about ethical behavior (unless you're an enemy, as mentioned before). And simply put, all the Scientologists that I know are very nice people.  Since a sizable chunk of my family remains in the church, this makes me glad.

In some ways, I'm glad for my time spent there. I just wish that I'd gotten disillusioned earlier, because as a young adult, I missed a lot of good activities that my non-Scientologist peer group was up to. In other words, if I could skim about 80 percent of my experience away, and just keep the 20 percent that I found useful and positive, it'd be perfect.

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

Wow I find that every interesting.  From everything I've read the church shuns those that leave.   Are you still in contact with your family?  I'd love to hear more.

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

I'd love to hear more. That's one you don't hear about. 

Was brought up having to attend Sunday school in Methodist and then Congregational churches. When I was about 6-7 maybe 8 years old I told my parents I didn't believe. They continued sending me through the program till I was confirmed.

I've always tried to just be a good person and let others believe whatever they want, and do whatever they want as long as it doesn't negatively affect me or others.

Interested in how the various rituals of religions were/are practiced I attended services and visited to observe at the houses of worship of many very different faiths. A lot of things are quite interesting and as an architectural type it's cool to see some of the buildings. Scrolls in a Synagogue, incredible stained glass artwork, the aura during a Latin Catholic mass, the Mormon tabernacle and amazing organ in Salt Lake City, and the almost party like atmosphere of a black Baptist church service in a low income area are just a few of the cool things to see or experience at least once. Back in the 70's I even went to a watch the show an evangelist named Leighton Ford put on just to check it out.

I worked at a company owned by a Jehovah Witness elder where I was the only one in the office who wasn't a Witness. I explained my position upon hiring and got along great with everyone during the few years I worked there. And no, they didn't keep handing me Watchtower publications. 

My first wife was a non practicing Catholic so I had to go to Pre-Cana because her family wanted her to be married in the church she'd grown up in (and I didn't really care where we were married) . We attended a large one day crash course where upon arrival we met very good friends of ours who happened to also be there who were in a similar situation so we had fun with it since we had to be there all day anyway. Second wife was a Wiccan High Priestess and we were married by a JP in a small abandoned early colonial New England church that's probably fallen down by now because it had no current religious use and was cool looking. Fired both wives for reasons unrelated to religious beliefs. 

As far as death goes, I've almost died several times and every day's been a bonus for over 25 years. When I die I'm just dead and instructions are to burn me up and toss me out. If they can't handle just dumping me in the trash then toss the ashes out in the lawn.

I rarely tell anyone I'm not a believer because so many people try to get us non believers to "see the light" and it's annoying.  Seems like most non believers are like me and don't actively try to convince believers otherwise.

I remember when I was much younger a female scientologist tried to recruit me to a Scientology event using a dating site. I thought that, in and of itself, was unethical. She then found out that I was interested in cars and told me that the Scientologist who was speaking at the event actually designed the XJ engine for Jaguar back in the 1940s. I am not really sure that I believe that was true. Again, not ethical.

When I was in college a Scientology recruiter was waiting outside the classroom and started her pitch when I walked out the door looking really tired. She had insisted that I looked like I hadn't done very well on my exam and the she had the secret as to how I could become more successful in life. In reality, I had been cramming in the library and guzzling caffeine the night before, had actually done rather well on the exam and wanted nothing other than to go home and sleep for about 15 hours. She kept insisting that I follow her to a Scientology event that evening and I wanted no part of it.

Quite honestly, I resisted both recruitment attempts because everything I had heard about Scientology up to that point was that it was some kind of scam.

In both cases they were pushing me very hard to go to some kind of event. What happens at these "events"?

Stampie said:

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

Wow I find that every interesting.  From everything I've read the church shuns those that leave.   Are you still in contact with your family?  I'd love to hear more.

Scientology only shuns those who criticize it. My love for my family outweighs my need to point out the shortcomings of their religion publicly or to them directly. Besides, if they're happy, who am I to say? But this inability to accept criticism is one of the main reasons that I left. I was paying my dues, spending 15 hours per week in their classrooms as well as getting auditing (counseling) but it wasn't making me happier or more fulfilled. When I drew attention to that they usually referred me to a quote by their founder L Ron Hubbard which is "The technology works 100 percent of the time if correctly applied". I internalized this, thinking that there was something wrong about how I was doing it, which made me unhappy. If I was becoming more unhappy, what's the point of continuing?  

I got out of doing alter boy duties when I asked the father why god was riding the horse of death and leading the horses of pestilence, famine, and war to end the world he created and also if he knew who the other 3 horses were in the 7 scrolls and also why is god rolled up in his own scroll? For some reason priests didn't like discussing theology with a grade schooler.

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

It's worth mentioning that I would never have joined the church if I hadn't been recruited (hard) by my biological father. At the time I hated my stepfather and didn't care much for my mom, and the church gave me a kind, supportive alternate environment. This made sense to a 12-year-old in a way that it wouldn't have to an older me.

quote by their founder L Ron Hubbard 

This is where I just don't understand people of Scientology (no disrespect intended) Hubbard was a science fiction author.  The whole doctrine reeks of it.  The story (sorry I dont have a source to substantiate it) is that he and another author (I want to say Heinlien but my memory is fuzzy) had a bet on who could create the most convincing religion and gain followers based on science fiction.  I guess we know who won.   As someone who grew up on reading a lot of the sci fi greats I found it very odd when this guy who's books I had read was suddenly shilling on TV.   

JThw8 said:

quote by their founder L Ron Hubbard 

This is where I just don't understand people of Scientology (no disrespect intended) Hubbard was a science fiction author.  The whole doctrine reeks of it.  The story (sorry I dont have a source to substantiate it) is that he and another author (I want to say Heinlien but my memory is fuzzy) had a bet on who could create the most convincing religion and gain followers based on science fiction.  I guess we know who won.   As someone who grew up on reading a lot of the sci fi greats I found it very odd when this guy who's books I had read was suddenly shilling on TV.   

It was Isaac Asimov. Hubbard once told him that the money you made writing science fiction was fine, but if you really wanted to get rich you need to invent your own religion. I'm not sure about the competition. I actually found Hubbard's books rather entertaining along with the movie John Travolta made from one of his books.

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

I'm not sure that's true. He started Dianetics - the secular predecessor to Scientology, and ran it for several years before getting into tax trouble. The transition to churchhood was as much a tax dodge as anything.     

By the way, Hubbard couldn't carry Asimov's jock as a writer. Hubbard was pure pulp. Johny Goodboy Tyler? Really?

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

Nothing I like better than bad science fiction. 

If you want to learn some of the history surrounding Hubbard, Heinlein, and Asimov, I strongly recommend this book.

Hubbard was a real con-man. And a weirdo to boot.

In reply to JThw8 :

Read stranger in a strange land by Heinlein sometime if you haven't already. That books taken a lot more of an affect on me than it probably should  it's definitely got that start a religion feel to it. 

Mndsm said:

In reply to JThw8 :

Read stranger in a strange land by Heinlein sometime if you haven't already. That books taken a lot more of an affect on me than it probably should  it's definitely got that start a religion feel to it. 

You want to really get freaked out read the Empire series by Orson Scott Card.   The first book was a bit too close to home, the 2nd (written in the early 2000s) starts with discussions of how to preempt a Russian invasion of the Ukrane and the start of a world wide pandemic.   It was a bit too on the nose.

My wife just spent 6 years working in a church that was mostly positive. I was also involved in several volunteer roles (mostly working with youth).
Then the pandemic hit and all of a sudden some people were upset about rooms being used to provide school lunch programs even though "in person" school wasn't happening. I would have never thought that anyone could actively oppose providing food to kids that didn't have enough to eat. 
The straw that broke the camels back was a new organizational structure that made it clear that youth events, supports and activities were not a priority ( presumably because children have smaller souls?) . When I brought up the fact that if the church didn't invest in finding new members to attend it wouldn't matter what the existing members thought because they would be dead in a decade that pretty much sealed the deal with us there. 
I say that flippantly but truthfully it's tearing my wife and I apart (not from each other thankfully) but to no longer be part of the community where there are good people who we love is tremendously difficult. Since I became a Christian as a teen I have never felt such a strong urge to turn my back on the whole of organized religion. 
 

/vent 

TheRev said:

As someone who has chosen to continue to follow the Christianity I grew up with (though with some significant modifications), I want to commend those who've spoken on this thread. I really appreciate the honesty and willingness to share. 

I was actually a teaching pastor at a Bible church for 17 years till this last summer when I resigned to run the automotive charity my wife and I started. Some of the stories you all have shared about your negative experiences with churches and/or clergy grieve me deeply. I believe they grieve God deeply as well (assuming I'm correct about His existence, though I cannot prove it one way or another). There are Christians trying to do a better job representing the love and grace modeled by Jesus, and I hope they become the norm. 

I would be more than happy to share the reasons I've chosen to continue to believe despite years struggling with doubt and depression, but since that's not the purpose of this thread, I'll reserve that for the messaging system if anyone wants to engage there. 

Grace and peace, Blake Jennings.

I appreciate your openness to this discussion.

I think (for me) it boils down to a basic tenet of human behavior.  A metaphor that a mentor of mine once told me: (paraphrasing from a sermon he gave)

Imagine a herd of Elephants notice a Lion in the distance.  They are not in any real danger from Lions, but their instinct is to circle-up and be fearful.  If the Lions get close, they might attack them in defense.  In some situations, I find that deeply religious people are like the Elephants.  They are fearful... of Satan, of sin, of what will happen to the world if not everyone believes as they do... and they circle up and huddle with other like-minded devotees.  When things get too "close," the devotees sometimes attack under the guise of wanting to be like Jesus, or wanting to intervene and bravely make the world a better place.  Next thing you know, there's a dead Lion, nothing has been resolved, and all the devotees cheer for the prevention of evil.  The Lions on the other hand had just eaten 6 antelope and not hungry, weren't even planning on taking a whack at an Elephant, they were just chillin in the shade, and in their own way feel attacked.  The psychology of fear is one that truly binds people in a common motivation, but for those who are already fearful, it can create sociopathy.  Thus the motivation of some sects and denominations to legislate, attack, or outright murder members of a group of which they are fearful - LGBTQ, Muslims, Latinx/immigrants, reproductive care doctors regardless of what they actually do in their field... all in the name of Christ - the guy who did the exact opposite of all of that kind of judgement.

He continued the metaphor with this -  Everybody loves the hospital when they're injured or sick.  It's a welcome place where you can find healing, but nobody wants to stay in the hospital.  Once they've received the healing they need, they want to get out.  The Church can easily be a hospital - a place where you can get an education, healing, knowledge, and then get out, but the Church can't sustain itself with that model.  It has to create a subterfuge of confusing messages and never-ending pathways to Christ in order to financially sustain the business.  The church is a timeshare.  Attractive and enticing with a benevolent deity who loves you, but then you're led to believe that there is no way out, and exiting means eternal damnation... the very loss of your soul to a vindictive, hateful deity who will cast you into a burning pit of unfathomable torture for eternity... the exact opposite of the sales pitch of the deity used to bring you in the door.  It attracts fear, keeps fear at a rolling boil, and makes you believe that the boiling is how Jesus works in you.

Of course... this is a highly generalized example of the global collective of any church.  His example was of Christianity, but it applies to many groups, not even just religions.  It's the psychology of the individual versus the mentality of the total.  Millions of people can "feel the boil" and not react in a fearful or hateful way, but an analogy might be government.  That politician you can't stand might be a genuinely great person, but the machine of government and its separation from a governed body makes them unpalatable to you.  It's not the individual, it's the conglomerative energy of the entire group.  I see that on a small scale every day because I work for a non-profit.  The individual board members are wonderful people with the best intentions for all of us and the organization.  The net result of their efforts is nothing short of corrosive and detrimental to the organization because of the sum of all their best intentions ends up being a crap outcome.

I for one would love to hear why you're still a believer.  Right here.  Many of us have shared why we aren't, some have shared why they are.  So far we've kept it pretty civil, and honestly... if anyone bad-mouths you for your beliefs, I'll metaphorically slap them through the screen.  Your views are every bit as valid as anyone else's.  I applaud your integrity to your faith.

In reply to TheRev :

I'm with Curtis, please share why you are.