Indoctrination and the culture we create

As a society, community, family we create our own cultures and traditions. Some are good and of course some are bad. Some require great effort and dedication and others are simply taught through an unconscious response to expected action. The church you go to (or don't), sports teams, racing all of these things and many more compromise your cultures and traditions you put value to. You spend time and money on these things and we all put considerable thought and effort into them. You got there through an indoctrination process. Whether you were self-taught or following your families and friends leads, you have been indoctrinated into these cultures and traditions through repetition of action and conversation. You can not get out of your normal sphere of influence without being reminded of the things you follow. Even if they are just on the subconscious. Indoctrination is what makes your tribe yours.

Today I started indoctrinating my son into becoming a habitual voter. Now I have, previously in other elections, taken them in and let them push the buttons and get a sticker. Kids like stickers. Today was different. Today I had him read a ballot and make choices based on what it said. Our district in Virginia has a Presidential and House Representative seat on the ballot (obviously) and two Virginia Constitutional amendments and one city bond request for a new library. I read him everyone and then I gave Cliff's notes version. I tried very hard to not place my own bias and position into each. Now like many households in the DC metro area, politics are a topic that is spoken about as much as how great/horrible the Redskins are around football season. If there are delays on the metro is the only thing that is discussed more. So the Presidential candidate was an easy decision for him. The House of Representative was harder as we haven't discussed it as much (in my district anyone against the incumbent party is a sacrificial lamb, so I took a minute to teach him about down ticket politics when you only know about the Presidential campaign.) The Constitutional Amendment was harder still. He wanted to understand what they were trying to do with these Amendments and why an Amendment was required. Then came the city bond issuance vote. He thought long and hard on this. He spent as much time debating to himself if the city should collect more debt weighing it against a need for a new library. I was not expecting him to take this topic so seriously and was very happy he did. He did not waiver on his self-debate on the topic. I had to vote and he still wasn't done. After we voted and got our stickers (adults like stickers too) we continued the debate. He eventually decided that people having access to more books and more knowledge were better for our community (his thoughts on it). He walked, nay strutted, into school ten minutes late with his "Future Voter" sticker on like he had just won the Solo Nationals. He stated, "I'm late, but that's okay because I voted."

Today, I began indoctrinating my youngest son into part of what it means to be an engaged and responsible citizen. I want them to understand that there is more than pledging allegiance to a flag and thanking a veteran in being an American. I want them to understand that the officials down the street can cause as much, if not more, havoc in our daily lives than people in DC.

Today I taught my son the importance of voting. I will continue his indoctrination into being a habitual and informed voter. I hope everyone who reads this will do the same.

Well said. We may have awful choices at times, but at least we get to choose. So many in the world do not.

Tom_Spangler wrote: Well said. We may have awful choices at times, but at least we get to choose. So many in the world do not.

So true. And the choices wouldn't be as awful if more people got involved earlier in the process. It takes work, but less than a decent fantasy football team.

Flight Service wrote:

Tom_Spangler wrote: Well said. We may have awful choices at times, but at least we get to choose. So many in the world do not.

So true. And the choices wouldn't be as awful if more people got involved earlier in the process. It takes work, but less than a decent fantasy football team.

That does not have much to do with ritualized voting. It has to do with being an informed citizen well before you push that button or pull that lever. That takes real work in a country with a for profit press and vaguely transparentish government.

In reply to Huckleberry:

You would be surprised how little work it takes. I probably spend an hour each week keeping up with my state and local government. On federal stuff, I watch alerts on the big things, and a few things that are really important to me. Autism and disability rights, energy, engineering laws.

As far as ritualized voting, I disagree. You have to show up for every election, city, county, state, general or primary. Being informed is awesome and very very important, but if you don't cast your ballot every time. You are really just bitching. In my house we try to stay informed and we debate each others positions almost daily. That is my families culture. Voting is what was started today.

Huckleberry wrote: That does not have much to do with ritualized voting. It has to do with being an informed citizen well before you push that button or pull that lever. That takes real work in a country with a for profit press and vaguely transparentish government.

The kicker is that the press that has the most for-profit yellow journalism is the most likely to scream about how the "mainstream" press is biased.

For profit press is a good thing. Countries without a for profit Press scare me. Think North Korea.

Now great job flight service.

We used to go with my parents when we were kids. My dad would explain who he was voting for, why and and how to decide what issues are most important to him and when he was able to overlook things that didn't line up with his beliefs. He was and still is big on making sure we turn into good people and good citizens. He did well with 2 out of 3 of us, I was practice.

In reply to Flight Service:

Good job.

You are correct about the culture. My business partner is 60. He has never voted. He's not even registered to vote. His wife and kids don't vote either. Needless to say, I harass him about it every year.

I swore I wouldn't vote unless I was voting for someone, not against. But now, berkeley me I'm now left in a position where I have to vote against someone. berkeley.

In reply to Toyman01:

My Grandfather never voted. My father did. I always asked my Grandfather why he never complained about the government or politicians. He said "Complaining about a problem does nothing. I taught you that. If you don't vote, don't bitch." I said "But you never complain." He smirked real big and said, "I didn't vote."

Given the number of medals he received in WWII, it made a lot of sense.

joey48442 wrote: I swore I wouldn't vote unless I was voting for someone, not against. But now, berkeley me I'm now left in a position where I have to vote against someone. berkeley.

I, unfortunately, have to say "ditto"

joey48442 wrote: I swore I wouldn't vote unless I was voting for someone, not against. But now, berkeley me I'm now left in a position where I have to vote against someone. berkeley.

There are rarely people worth voting for, but there are always people worth voting against

I will probably vote against one candidate rather than for the other candidate. Not pleased w/ that but what's the option.

I have indoctrinated my kids and grandkids into the cult of kind and polite.

I used to vote in every single election. When I lived in Michigan, that sometimes meant 4 or more times per year. They sure love elections in Michigan!

I took my time and learned about the candidates and issues and tried to make well-reasoned and insightful choices.

I voted dutifully and faithfully from my 18th birthday in 1982 until November, 2000.

In that year, the outcome of the Presidential election was determined not by the people, not by the Electoral College, but instead by a decision of the Florida Supreme Court. Several justices on that court were appointed by the brother of the man who would eventually become president, George HW Bush.

It was then that I realized that elections were a sham perpetrated by the wealthy elite who actually run this country. Elections are held strictly for the purpose of giving the general public the illusion that they have some control over how the government is run.

I haven't voted since.

EvanR wrote: In that year, the outcome of the Presidential election was determined not by the people, not by the Electoral College, but instead by a decision of the Florida Supreme Court. Several justices on that court were appointed by the brother of the man who would eventually become president, George HW Bush.

That's a major oversimplification of what happened. Had one other large state voted the other way, what happened in Florida wouldn't have mattered. It was a close election nationally, and it was close in the swing states, including Florida. The fact that it came down to a court decision (and it was the US Supreme Court, not Florida's) is how the system was supposed to handle it. It's also the only time that's happened. It's hardly evidence of some conspiracy.

And it was George W. Bush, not his father.

It was then that I realized that elections were a sham perpetrated by the wealthy elite who actually run this country. Elections are held strictly for the purpose of giving the general public the illusion that they have some control over how the government is run.

That's true to some extent, but if the elite had complete control like you are implying, the Republican party would not have nominated the person they did.

Toebra wrote: I have indoctrinated my kids and grandkids into the cult of kind and polite.

I have learned that this is very location specific in my travels. What is polite in the south is rude in the northwest. Okay in the mid-atlantic is rude in Japan, but all that is for another thread.

Tom_Spangler wrote:

It was then that I realized that elections were a sham perpetrated by the wealthy elite who actually run this country. Elections are held strictly for the purpose of giving the general public the illusion that they have some control over how the government is run.

That's true to some extent, but if the elite had complete control like you are implying, the Republican party would not have nominated the person they did.

Was just gonna say that. If a certain orange fellow who feels entitled to his own facts wins, all those rich people's stocks are going to eat E36 M3 so bad that the tax breaks they'd get won't help at all.

GameboyRMH wrote:

Tom_Spangler wrote:

It was then that I realized that elections were a sham perpetrated by the wealthy elite who actually run this country. Elections are held strictly for the purpose of giving the general public the illusion that they have some control over how the government is run.

That's true to some extent, but if the elite had complete control like you are implying, the Republican party would not have nominated the person they did.

Was just gonna say that. If a certain orange fellow who feels entitled to his own facts wins, all those rich people's stocks are going to eat E36 M3 so bad that the tax breaks they'd get won't help at all.

The rich are not backing the GOP this year, they are backing Clinton. She has been a finance industry darling her whole career.

Bill Clinton's second term is when you started seeing the 1% really start diversifying in which party they were after. It was about which candidate "gave" the most.

The interestingly quite money this cycle has been the Koch brothers. Rarely is what they pay for something that benefits anyone that works for a living.

Flight Service wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote:

Tom_Spangler wrote:

It was then that I realized that elections were a sham perpetrated by the wealthy elite who actually run this country. Elections are held strictly for the purpose of giving the general public the illusion that they have some control over how the government is run.

That's true to some extent, but if the elite had complete control like you are implying, the Republican party would not have nominated the person they did.

Was just gonna say that. If a certain orange fellow who feels entitled to his own facts wins, all those rich people's stocks are going to eat E36 M3 so bad that the tax breaks they'd get won't help at all.

The rich are not backing the GOP this year, they are backing Clinton. She has been a finance industry darling her whole career. Bill Clinton's second term is when you started seeing the 1% really start diversifying in which party they were after. It was about which candidate "gave" the most. The interestingly quite money this cycle has been the Koch brothers. Rarely is what they pay for something that benefits anyone that works for a living.

They do send a boatload of money to PBS & NPR to help bring you that stuff......which pointing that out instantly killed off the "UnKoch our campus" nonsense at a local college who run a PBS & NPR program. LoL

Good for you, Flight Service. My parents always voted and passed that trait on to my brother and I. I registered to vote as soon as I turned 21 (that was minimum voting age back then).

I have not missed voting in any election I was qualified for since then. But, if it were not for the local offices I might pass on this one.

I do not understand how the people could make such poor choices. I guess it is related to Huckleberry's uninformed citizens.

In reply to Hal:

Tea Party finally took over the mainstream GOP and the Democrats had Hillary as the nominee on November 5th, 2008.

As most know I am fairly liberal but I was commiserating with my fairly conservative friend last night over the debates on the exact same thing.

I told him "Just think, we could have had Sanders and Kasich up there but instead we have these two."

If you don't want to vote for either of these two, just go and undervote. Vote for everything else on the ballot and leave the Presidential spot blank or vote third party.

This is a great topic. What I haven't figured out yet is how to be an organized voter - not in the labor sense, but keeping track of elections, finding sources of information with the least noise, etc. It often seems like being an informed citizen is a full-time job in itself, and I already have one of those.

Flight Service (and others), how do you keep track of it all?

None of my family votes, never have. I have voted in every election since I came of age. If I do vote this year, I will not be voting for the office of President. There is not a single person running that I could feel anything but ashamed that I helped put them in the oval office.

fasted58 wrote: I will probably vote against one candidate rather than for the other candidate. Not pleased w/ that but what's the option.

This is a great time to vote third party.