Is this the best CVT in the world?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6zE__J0YIU&feature=player_embedded#!

Is this an amazing gearbox, or overly complicated nonsense? To my non engineered mind, it seems like a possible idea. However I don't see how it would really improve over the current crop of CVT's. Thoughts?

its crap.

it would require a second drive input to vary the speeds between the two shafts. works fine so long as you don't mind having two throttles.

He said good CVT.

Hi, I am now a Nissan Service Manager... They don't exist.

haha, at least the nissan units are easy to diagnose

is there a problem with the transmission?

no? transmission is fine.

yes? replace transmission.

John Brown wrote: He said good CVT. Hi, I am now a Nissan Service Manager... They don't exist.

Guy I work with was looking at a Caliber with CVT. Called around to the local Mopar dealers, asking about any known issues they have. "We don't know, we've never had to pull one or have it apart."

So it looks like CVTs fall under the general rule of "never buy an import automatic".

BTW - 35mpg at 80mph. Bastard.

Fine until the secondary drive fails and your output is stuck at max speed...

Very early concept model, much engineering to be done, But much potential. Turn some newly laid off NASA boys loose on it.

I watched several videos, read oodles of articles... and still don't understand how the sumbitch works.

If a Mopar technician says they have "never had an issue" with a major component of the drivetrain of a vehicle....well, I'd take that with a grain of salt.

As for the "foreign-built automatic transmission", that's a bit misleading, too. I mean, some foreign cars use/used American-built automatics and some American cars used foreign-built automatics.

With several brands of cars using CVTs, I wish folks would post their experiences with a few specifics.

Example: I bought an '07 Ford Freestyle and the CVT "died" within the warranty period but FoMoCo .........

Or, I bought a Dodge Caliber with the CVT and after 100K miles it still .............

How is this: I am the Nissan Lane Manager at a large "Import Collection" in the Metropolitan Detroit area and we have three vehicles in the shop right now with transmission related complaints. One is authentic, the CVT is bad. It has 28,480 miles on it and there was an internal hard part failure. It will be covered by warranty with no issue. The second is a failed transmission due to someone hitting something it damaging the lower cover of the transmission, the gentleman replaced the cover and filled the unit with Type F ATF (the bottles were in the trunk). Not so covered by warranty. The third is a complaint that the transmission never shifts, the lady does not understand "You are correct!" so I am pretending to look at it.

I do like the concept of a cvt, I had one in a polaris four wheeler a few years back. It made the most of every horsepower that little 250cc engine could muster.

For cars it take some getting used to never hearing the transmission shift, but there is some merit to keeping the engine in its power band for improving fuel efficiency. If only they could hold up to the torque.

integraguy wrote: If a Mopar technician says they have "never had an issue" with a major component of the drivetrain of a vehicle....well, I'd take that with a grain of salt.

We don't talk to the techs, we talk to the parts department.

There's actually a lot of good information to be had through the parts departments. If we are having a problem diagnosis, for example, and it looks 80% like a given component, but there's still some doubt, we'll talk to the parts guys. If their answer is something like "We got ten of those in this week, but we're out until next week's shipment", then that's a clue and a half. On the other hand, if they don't stock it and rarely/never order it, that's a different clue.

Dealer "techs" are often just parts hangers. There's little/no money in diagnosis at the dealership level, after all, so it kind of breeds that mentality. My favorite are certain Camries with a certain EGR fault. Little information available to us, so we called around. Dealership tech response was "When it throws that code, we put this part on. No, we don't know why." That's not how we do things. (iATN. Worth it.)

Good parts guys are worth their weight in gold. We choose who we buy from by their quality.

integraguy wrote: With several brands of cars using CVTs, I wish folks would post their experiences with a few specifics.

Not mine, but my mom has a Freestyle. Actually she is on her second. The first went 17K without any problems. She totaled it. The second was bought with 17K on it. It now has around 60K on it. No problems at all with anything on the car. She loves it. Calls it her lawnmower transmission.

I have driven it on a trip and it definitely takes some getting used to. Kind of odd to mash the throttle and watch the rpm remain steady as the speedo climbs. After three hours in it I never did get used to never feeling a shift.

Our Suzuki SX4 has a CVT in. It's really not that different to drive. Car accelerates smoothly and with very little fuss. Only thing I don't like, is this car hardly ever gets over 2k rpm in town (35 mph speed limit everywhere) and I still can't get better than 24 mpg in town. Are CVT's a bit of snake oil?

I wouldn't be surprised about 1000 4L60Es a week, given that it's basically THE transmission that GM uses in every truck that isn't a one-ton, since what, 1994ish?. That's a rather huge market segment.

From speaking with dealer "techs", it is no wonder that the intake gaskets fail. They were proud of the fact that they never torqued anything but head bolts. Well, the torque on those intake gaskets is critical, too loose and they leak, too tight and they destroy the gasket (and leak). Sure, with practice and certain shortcuts, one could do a 3.4 intake in 40 minutes. And, if he's lucky, it will last until just beyond warranty period.

I've never had to do one twice, but then, it takes me about four hours because I have the gall to do the job properly. I can always tell when I'm re-doing a dealership gasket job, because they don't remove the rear valve cover to get the intake off, and they rarely re-bolt it to the intake manifold. (It usually doesn't leak oil, surprisingly) The ignition module bracket is also usually left loose, and if I'm lucky, the nuts are still on the cylinder head up against the exhaust manifold.

What year's your SX4? The newest ones have paddle shifters.

The CRZ I test drove had a CVT in it and it had paddle shifters. That was an odd thought in my head. Sometimes, programming tricks are cool.

Since some vehicles (currently?) use CVTs (is there a Ford product currently in production that uses one?) I've been curious about their reliability. Thanks to all who added their comments.

As far as the female Nissan owner who "doesn't get" that a CVT DOESN'T shift, unfortunately, someone like her can keep several potential customers from looking at what might be a decent, next new car. I would also be curious as to how things went with her salesperson when they went for a test drive before the purchase.

Strizzo wrote: its crap. it would require a second drive input to vary the speeds between the two shafts. works fine so long as you don't mind having two throttles.

Yup crap, two throttles, planetary system, and that lovely double pinion.

Nice idea though, gets the brain working.

I'm trying to figure out how this actually doing gear reduction, and not just supplying the same torque at all output rpms.

In my mind, it just seems like putting a car on a conveyor belt. Sure, you can have the car going a net speed of 0 while it's turning a wheelspeed equivalent to 60mph, but there's no actual gear reduction going on.

integraguy wrote: Since some vehicles (currently?) use CVTs (is there a Ford product currently in production that uses one?) I've been curious about their reliability. Thanks to all who added their comments. As far as the female Nissan owner who "doesn't get" that a CVT DOESN'T shift, unfortunately, someone like her can keep several potential customers from looking at what might be a decent, next new car. I would also be curious as to how things went with her salesperson when they went for a test drive before the purchase.

I've driven quite a few CVT's, they can take some getting used to. It's weird to hold the throttle at a constant engine RPM but have the car still accelerate. The things are programmed to simulate the feel of shifts at certain speeds because people expect that to happen, even though it is not necessary.

Had a customer who traded her 2002? Dodge minivan (4 speed automatic) on a Jeep Patriot with a 4 banger and CVT. She complained bitterly about the transmission, she even brought her mother in 'because she's been driving for 60 years and knows how a transmission should work'. The GM finally, in exasperation, traded the Patriot towards another minivan with a 6 speed A/T. Guess what: they complained because 'it shifts all the time'. Duh.

As far as reliability, we never replaced one in any of the Jeeps and Dodges we sold. For that matter, when I worked for the Subaru dealer I had several customers with CVT Justys that had stupid high mileage on the trannys. The rest of the car was toast but the transmission was still plugging along. Come to think of it, I saw a Justy in the grocery store parking lot the other day.

As far as the transmission shown in the video, I'm sure that electronics controlling, perhaps, a hydraulic motor to run that secondary shaft could make it viable for passenger car use. The thing that I see as a problem: there is no 'real' neutral. If that thing got stuck in gear while driving, you'd be screwed.

Derick Freese wrote: The CRZ I test drove had a CVT in it and it had paddle shifters. That was an odd thought in my head. Sometimes, programming tricks are cool.

I drove a Nissan with the CVT and the fake auto-manual gear changing. Hated it. The rest of the operation of the CVT was fine. I just wish you could selected a fuel economy or power setting and then the trans/engine would stay in that rpm to maximize one or the other.

The ultimate transmission for a gas turbine? Spool the engine up and use the transmission for speeds since a turbine doesn't throttle quickly.

"I just wish you could select a fuel economy or power setting...."

I may be wrong, but I think the CR-Z has that feature when you get it with the CVT. The first gen. Insight had something like that,too.

i can confirm that the CRZ does have that feature. I drove it in Sport, so I can't tell you what the other settings do.