Learn me home defense firearms...?

Would like to emphasize a few things already said - if you do chose to acquire a handgun or something bigger for home protection of course learn how to operate the weapon competently.  Practice seems to be discussed a lot but other training and research is a must. 

- Find out what the laws are in your state, county and town/city about using a handgun for self defense, in your home (and laws may be different for use outside). Don't take somebody's hearsay as gospel. Talk to a pro.

- Think about if you can use the weapon and be ok with the potential outcome. Those outcomes - good and bad - will be with you the rest of your life. You really don't want the person taking the weapon away from you if you are not sure.

- Be aware, should the worst happen, what your legal rights are and what to do, say and not say. Again - don't take somebody's two cents as gospel. Talk to a pro even if you have to spend a couple bucks - again best that this person is at least same state if not same town. Easy to but don't put this off.

In reply to yupididit :

Yeah, and worse, that some seem to think they could win a fight with an ex-seal team member who was high on meth.

When seal team meth head (who picks locks, breaks windows, kills dogs, kicks through reinforced doors, isn't afraid of lights and alarms and the racking of a berking shotgun, and doesn't feel the pain of pepper spray) does break into a house the just-woke-up-from-deep-sleep internet toughguy is going to neatly and calmly assess the situation, judge the intent of said seal team meth accurately, make a moral decision, grab a weapon, and win the fight with this guy?

Sorry everyone, I'm just trying to point out how ridiculous this is starting to sound. Lots of good info in the first 2 pages, now it sounds like we believe common hulk zombies want to steal our milk.

Robbie said:

In reply to yupididit :

Yeah, and worse, that some seem to think they could win a fight with an ex-seal team member who was high on meth.

When seal team meth head (who picks locks, breaks windows, kills dogs, kicks through reinforced doors, isn't afraid of lights and alarms and the racking of a berking shotgun, and doesn't feel the pain of pepper spray) does break into a house the just-woke-up-from-deep-sleep internet toughguy is going to neatly and calmly assess the situation, judge the intent of said seal team meth accurately, make a moral decision, grab a weapon, and win the fight with this guy?

Sorry everyone, I'm just trying to point out how ridiculous this is starting to sound. Lots of good info in the first 2 pages, now it sounds like we believe common hulk zombies want to steal our milk.

People tend to go from one extreme to the other, if it isnt Seal Team Meth Head its "dude i got a gun and all i gotta do is flash it like in the movies and the guy will piss himself". Of the 2 being prepared and taking guns seriously is a better outcome although both are ridiculous.

I will say i dont really like the "rack a shotgun to scare the bad guys" thing, it kinda sets you up for not using the gun as anything but a threat and thats not a great thing. If you do have to draw a gun you should be prepared to use it.

On the shotgun vs. handgun debate: its important to realize that a single round of 12ga 00 buckshot is basically equal to 9(!) 9mm handgun rounds. That's a lot of lead headed downrange. Shotguns do hold fewer rounds than a handgun, but like someone else said, you really don't want to stick around if you need more than a couple rounds of buck to solve your problem. 

12ga also has a lot of less-than-leathal rounds available, which is great. Everything from beanbags, to rubber rounds, to taser rounds are out there. 

1. “IF” anyone chooses to have a handgun or long gun in their house, there should be some sort of professional training that came about before the firearm purchase. Just going out and tossing lead down range and wasting brass/plastic is not a suitable substitute for proper training and knowledge. Professional training is very inexpensive and available locally in most areas.

2. “NO”, your friend with an arsenal in his house isn’t a substitute for professional training. He might be ok to go to the firing range with, but he should not be your firearms instructor.

3. “BEFORE” you decide to purchase any firearm, look deep inside yourself and decide whether you have it in you to actually pull the trigger and live with the ramifications of possibly taking a life. It’s a split second decision that will live with you, your family and every part of your life forever!  Ask any law enforcement officer who was ever involved in an officer involved shooting and you might be surprised by their answer. That split second decision or delay could easily result in the firearm being taken from you and used to take your life.

4. “NO”, make that “HELL NO”, it’s not like you see on TV!! You will not shoot and hit someone across a football field with your stub nose .38 or any handgun for that matter. Realize that while confronting an intruder inside your house, you are going to shoot at probably less than 10’ away. And even at 10’, with furniture, walls, corners and stairs in the way and in the dark, most shots will miss even at that close range. IT’S NOT LIKE YOU SEE ON TV. Guns do recoil and learning how to manage that recoil and being able to get a second shot(if necessary) is where proper training comes into play.

A gun purchase and responsible gun ownership is not a “spur of the moment” decision, it needs to be an educated decision. Please make it one.

Those rubber rounds feel just like being shot in a plated IBA by 7.62. If not worse! Gah damn!

Robbie said:

In reply to yupididit :

Yeah, and worse, that some seem to think they could win a fight with an ex-seal team member who was high on meth.

When seal team meth head (who picks locks, breaks windows, kills dogs, kicks through reinforced doors, isn't afraid of lights and alarms and the racking of a berking shotgun, and doesn't feel the pain of pepper spray) does break into a house the just-woke-up-from-deep-sleep internet toughguy is going to neatly and calmly assess the situation, judge the intent of said seal team meth accurately, make a moral decision, grab a weapon, and win the fight with this guy?

Sorry everyone, I'm just trying to point out how ridiculous this is starting to sound. Lots of good info in the first 2 pages, now it sounds like we believe common hulk zombies want to steal our milk.

Yeah, it's like my coworker who feels like he has to carry his full size pistol and at least 50 rounds whenever he travels outside of the San Antonio area. I'm like what the berkeley are you afraid of? And who the berkeley do you think you'll be fighting where you'd need 50 rounds of 9mm ammo? And do you really think you'll be able to place a single shot with all that fear and paranoia pumping adrenaline through you? We don't live in Brazil or Mexico, America is very safe even with all the gun toting idiots running around. 

I've been in many combat situations (thank the lawd I switched to IT). When you're in a fight adrenaline and nerves are your enemies when it comes to placing rounds into a target. Humans are the hardest to shoot. It doesn't get easier everytime you do it either. I've done training where they purposely raise our heart rates and induce muscle fatigue. You become even less like John Wick. During a home invasion or insider threat that will basically be your state; heart pumping, hands shaking, mind racing, which are the worst times to try and get a round on a target. 

I do recommend like stated before, get so familiar with your weapons that their operations become second nature. Practice to operate it and to clear malfunctions then immediately get rounds on target.

For me and my family, our guns are last resort during an home invasion. Have a plan (practice it), secure your family, call 911, and try your best to not confront the intruder. Your things aren't worth more than any persons life. 

Also, try taking Krav Maga. Been doing it since I was 20. I love it! If you get into any altercation with another human it'll most likely be verbal escalating to physical one, with a knife usually being an x factor. Basically, protecting yourself is more than just having a gun. If you're at that point then pray to who ever you believe in that its over as quick as possible. 

In reply to lotusseven7 :

Just curious, what are your qualifications to make these statements? 

Why are so many people taking the request for info on a specific category of firearms as a call to tell everyone they need this and that and soul searching etc about the decision to keep and bear?

Justjim75 said:

In reply to lotusseven7 :

Just curious, what are your qualifications to make these statements? 

Why are so many people taking the request for info on a specific category of firearms as a call to tell everyone they need this and that and soul searching etc about the decision to keep and bear?

 

His statements all looked to be common sense to me.  They didn't take one side or the other, were pretty much down the middle of the road and didn't require any particular qualifications to say. 

The original poster came here asking for opinions, so people are giving them.

Here is the original post, just in case there were his question was somehow lost along the way.

“I'm thinking about buying a handgun for home safety. Good Idea?

I'm married with a 2 year old, of course I'll be purchasing a pistol safe of some sort. 

Any gun owners here? 

Thoughts?”

1. The OP never mentioned whether or not he has any previous firearms ownership, knowledge or training. I assumed that he did not and that was why he posted the question.

2. Being a very diplomatic person, I try not to make statement in either my personal life or professional career that tell anybody what to do or how to live their lives. Based on my experiences, I simply made a few broad and as previously mentioned, common sense statements that any mature and responsible person would agree with. Anything taken beyond that, was not intended. 

3. I have previous military training, personal self-defense training and have been a responsible gun owner from age 12. I’m not a hunter and even have trouble seeing animals harmed. I do have a rifle range(500 yards) where I can shoot any time and regularly practice with my handguns here at the house. Years ago I also had 2 guns pulled on me and while unarmed, was able to get out of both situations. Those people flexed their muscle by showing their firearms but never intended to pull the trigger. From that day forward, I told myself that I would never draw my pistol unless I full intended to use it. I don’t want to ever have to discharge a single round at another human being, but in a situation where my family is in harms way, there is not a single doubt in my mind what the outcome of that unfortunate instance will be. 

4. Any firearms question will quickly become a very heated debate as both sides have deep and passionate stands. Unfortunately nobody has the correct answer across all of the different situations that can arise. In a perfect world, firearms would be totally unnecessary, but we don’t live in that land of make believe. Everyone must make their own choices and live with the consequences.

I’m done. Going to head outside to perforate some paper.

Wow that's a lot of responses.

If I was a single, I think this would be a non-issue. But with all the stats about accidents, I'm starting to lean toward the motion sensor lights, pepper spray, cameras, heavy duty locks, etc.

And if the wife is okay with it, do the multiple layers security protocol like one of you guys suggested. Maybe keep it locked up in a biometric pistol safe within our normal safe with only me able to open it. 

We'll see how things work out. 

We're actually be in a pretty safe neighborhood, maybe I'm just being paranoid.

Thanks for all the input guys!

I apologize, I should have reread the original post, not just the title.  I disagree that professional training is necessary as a lot of people struggle to pay for the gun and cant afford it.  Self preservation should not be expensive. I am a self taught almost "arsenal guy" and regularly get compliments on how well trained my 13 year old is with regards to safety, malfunction clearing, and techniques, once by the range officer (FBI/CIA firearms instructor and former Marine armorer/instructor) at a competition that we were in and 2 other NRA instructors.  I agree that this is a polarizing subject and again apologize for not rereading but  strongly disagree with people that say this and that should be done when guns can really be as easy as a YouTube video and common sense, or a buddy with experience. 

PS. Guns are a heck of a lot of FUN for a lot of folks too

thatsnowinnebago said:

On the shotgun vs. handgun debate: its important to realize that a single round of 12ga 00 buckshot is basically equal to 9(!) 9mm handgun rounds. That's a lot of lead headed downrange. Shotguns do hold fewer rounds than a handgun, but like someone else said, you really don't want to stick around if you need more than a couple rounds of buck to solve your problem. 

12ga also has a lot of less-than-leathal rounds available, which is great. Everything from beanbags, to rubber rounds, to taser rounds are out there. 

Eh, each individual pellet weighs about 60gr so its not exactly a 9mm which is about double that weight. It is going about 1200fps but its round so not the optimal projectile too. Its probably somewhere between a 32acp and a 380 for power for each pellet rather than a 9mm.

The idea with buckshot is to get as much of the shot column in one place, thats where the power comes from

Robbie said:

yikes. I'm not against owning guns.

But I think owning a gun for the singular purpose of home protection (mentioned above - often happens out of fear) probably puts you statistically into the highest risk profile for having yourself or someone close to you hurt or killed by a gun.

If guns are your hobby, you spend a lot of time around them and training with them, and therefore you are probably pretty safe with them. If guns are not your hobby, you are unlikely to continuously practice and keep your skills sharp. With poor skills, a gun is much more dangerous to the people it just so happens to be close to than anyone else.

Owning a gun out of fear is likely the worst reason to buy one.  The plain facts are gun deaths in a house with guns go up.  Most often the owner or family member. 

A gulf club makes a good self defense weapon, actually better than a baseball bat.  ( more weight concentrated in a smaller area with longer handle ) 

Plus if you discover the disturbance is just your son coming home drunk it’s easier to change the path at the last second to a non fatal path. 

If you are comfortable and secure with gun responsibilities then do what you please. 

Nis14 said:

Wow that's a lot of responses.

If I was a single, I think this would be a non-issue. But with all the stats about accidents, I'm starting to lean toward the motion sensor lights, pepper spray, cameras, heavy duty locks, etc.

And if the wife is okay with it, do the multiple layers security protocol like one of you guys suggested. Maybe keep it locked up in a biometric pistol safe within our normal safe with only me able to open it. 

We'll see how things work out. 

We're actually be in a pretty safe neighborhood, maybe I'm just being paranoid.

Thanks for all the input guys!

I like the thought you’ve put into this.  You sound like someone I’d like as a neighbor, with or without the gun.  

Maybe it’s just brevity that make some people come across like they eagerly await the shoot out.

Ive known a few people who have had to take a life and none of them feel good about it no matter how justified. Some  Fellow combat veterans return feeling not as welcome hero’s but troubled souls who have difficulty re-adjusting.   I had my own nightmares and My family knows not to jar me awake.  

I think the decision tree should be the following:

Person who's not supposed to be is in your house.

#1  Can you exit house safely?  If yes, then do so.  Call Police and wait for them to arrive while in a safe place.

#2  If you can't exit the house safely then call 911 immediately.  Gather family together in one room.  Get home defense weapon, which could be a baseball bat.  Wait for Police to arrive.

#3  If said intruder comes into the room where your family is with ill intent, unload with whatever you have at hand, preferably said baseball bat.

While I have a pistol and a shotgun, the first thing I'm grabbing if there's an intruder in my house is the phone to call 911.  If I have to choose, I'm picking my shotgun, loaded with target shot for clays.  It holds 1 in the chamber and 5 in the barrel, which is more than enough.  I don't have to worry about a round punching through my wall and going into my neighbors house but if the bad guy gets a load, they're definitely not going to be happy. 

In reply to bobzilla :

I am sorry if you thought my post meant that no one should have a gun for defense. I was just trying to point out that there hasn't been a gun in the house before getting one is a lifestyle change. You have to make sure all family members are educated in gun safety as well as making sure anyone that visits is safe. If anyone feels they need a firearm for home defense by all means get one, I just want to make sure the OP has all the information to make an informed decision. In my experience it is less than 3 seconds to slam a clip and rack the slide.  

Dr. Hess said:

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

There are only 2 kinds of liberals, Adrian, Evil and Delusional.  I'll put you in the Delusional set.  There are no safe neighborhoods, houses, town, counties, states, etc., anywhere in the world.  There are only some that are less safe than others.  How much you want to take responsibility for your own safety is up to you.

You're being an shiny happy person. Don't be an shiny happy person.

I was enjoying this thread and found it informative until you had to step in it with your "crazed wingnut" post. Please keep those types of comments on Zerohedge.

One thing I'll add.  For home protection, don't stress about caliber.  As an avid shooter myself, I have a few for different purposes.  9mm for target, .45acp for home protection, .40sw for plinking, etc.

Most home protection scenarios are close quarters, so accuracy is not much of an issue, hence why I have the .45acp.  Max knock-down power, but after 20 feet the lead becomes a tumbling rock and who knows were it will end up.  I wouldn't go as small as a .22 or .25 because when adrenaline is high, they might not have the torque you need to really stop someone.

I would choose a caliber based on price of ammo.  .38 is a fantastic caliber, available in nearly any configuration of handgun, its cheap, and it won't be going away any time soon.

As far as the firearm itself, you need utility.  Single or double action revolver is your huckleberry.  Easy to grip, easy to operate, typically smaller body.

If you haven't already, (TL;DR) make sure you are WELL VERSED and comfortable with it.  I can't stress this enough.  I have been around guns my whole life and I had taken many of the courses on how to be a firearms instructor in CA (but never got certified because we decided to move).  Nothing makes me more nervous than someone who isn't fully comfortable with a firearm.  It's like the difference between giving an indy race car to a 16 year old vs. giving Michael Schumacher a Camry.

Having said all of that, even though I am a gun enthusiast and keep one in the nightstand beside the bed, I have zero fear of ever having to use it.  It's just my personality.  If someone breaks in to steal my stuff, I'm more likely to help them load it up to avoid conflict and injury.  Now, if someone comes to harm me or one of my peeps, they'll be looking down the barrel of something.

I fear I have to use mine too often.... stupid critters. IF it's not skunks, it's coyotes. Or chipmunks burrowing into the crawlspace. 

I saw you were given the best answer about 4 posts in,  A shotgun is what you want, You are new to Wepons and saying ACCURACY IN CLOSE QTRS. ISN'T  AS IMPORTANT ,Is nuts. I would rather fill the doorway with lead than miss for a thousand reasons that come up.

There is some good advice here, and some that is not so good. 

For example, try poking someone in the belly with a golf club and a baseball bat and see which works better.  Golf club first so you get a chance to try both.

In reply to GTXVette :

All 12 guage shotshell remain an solid mass well past 7 yards.  You wont fill a doorway with lead unless it's a 50 foot room

GTXVette said:

I saw you were given the best answer about 4 posts in,  A shotgun is what you want, You are new to Wepons and saying ACCURACY IN CLOSE QTRS. ISN'T  AS IMPORTANT ,Is nuts. I would rather fill the doorway with lead than miss for a thousand reasons that come up.

At 20 feet your hand would just about cover up a hole a shotgun charge pattern would make in a paper target or whomever. 

In reply to Justjim75 :

+1. I mentioned this earlier. My shortened 500 is pretty concentrated out even further. I've use my 19" bbl for trap shooting.... and done well.