Life is short. Are you reconciled with your Maker?

Driven5 said:

Toyman! said:

I haven't seen anything in here that is crass.

Phrases like "you just need to ask for forgiveness" can demonstrate a similarly flippant disregard for somebody else's beliefs, as referring to a "magical person in the sky" does.

I disagree.

From my perspective, as a Christian, you literally just need to ask for forgiveness. Your soul can be saved from eternal damnation by simply asking. 

From Steve's perspective, God is literally a made-up magical person in the sky. 

I don't find either of those beliefs to be crass or flippant. They are just opposite sides of a discussion. 

A person can't come into a thread that is very much about religion and faith and not expect pushback from both sides. 

In reply to SV reX :

I don't necessarily agree that Steve is purposefully being bitter. He has a fairly abrupt personality. It can come across as bitter or hateful. I have been accused of the same. 

I was not aware having a different opinion was "trolling". What a boring world if everyone is forced to agree. 

SV reX said:

In reply to alfadriver :

I think it's more like an intimate relationship than a scorecard. 
 

If my wife spent her days doing good things, encouraging people, building up marriages, and being generally supportive and positive to everyone, but failed to acknowledge that I existed, never made any attempt to get to know me, and didn't even show up at the alter for our wedding, I'd have a pretty hard time considering us married. 
 

At the same time, there are mysteries that only God knows the answers to. His grace is infinite, and there will be people of all nations and cultures in His kingdom. How that works is more than I can understand. 
 

That's not an answer.  That's why they call it faith. 

No, that's not an answer.  It does not at all explain why some of the truths damn a gross majority of the world to something other than heaven based on someones opinion.  Let alone the people who have justified murdering those who don't accept that opinion.  Or the ones murdering other people who don't believe in the same person in history- just that they do it wrong.

Your note is more about accepting there's a higher being, not specifically being Christian.  And I'm pointing out that enough organized religion tells people to specifically take sides against each other because they want to point out that one version of god is better than another.  When, in fact, they are the same thing.

It's hard to have faith in something when it's telling you that god takes a side in who honors god the best.

Especially when a version of that will allow a mass murder into heaven if they ask for forgiveness just before they die and keep out a person who has been good and loving their entire life.  Particularly when the version that just requires asking for forgiveness has at it's core love for your fellow human.

That questioning has nothing to do with faith.  It questions that it has to be a specific way.

Toyman! said:

In reply to SV reX :

I don't necessarily agree that Steve is purposefully being bitter. He has a fairly abrupt personality. It can come across as bitter or hateful. I have been accused of the same. 

 

I didn't say it was purposeful. I said it's what he was communicating. 
 

As a person with an equally abrupt personality, I can tell you it takes an enormous about of effort to communicate well when people are trying to read through my "abruptness". 
 

I like Steve. I guess it takes one to know one. Just can't figure out why he is posting in this thread. 

In reply to Steve_Jones :

Please note the difference between these two statements:

"I believe X, and am excited to share it with you."

vs:

"You are an idiot if you believe X."

One is a statement of belief, the other is an insult. And don't act all confused like you don't see why calling someone's supreme being a magical sky person is insulting. You know it is, and that's why you said it. Also note that I have said nothing about my beliefs, because I am capable of hearing other's beliefs without mocking them.

SV reX said:

 

I like Steve. I guess it takes one to know one. Just can't figure out why he is posting in this thread. 

Why should he not?  The OP is addressed at everyone.  

He's pointing out the main issues with God vs. a higher being.  The "God" people choose makes people choose sides and assigns them into a group.  Accepting a higher being does not.  And reconciling with a higher being that any day is a good day to die is not a bad way of living.

In reply to alfadriver :

I know you seek answers to some of those questions. We all do. But some of them will not be answered until eternity.
 

I disagree with the idea that there is cheap grace. It's NOT a scorecard. A murderer's apology at the last minute will not change his relationship with God. And there is certainly nothing about the last thing we do is seek forgiveness. It's not a win if you pass at the finish line. 
 

"Many will come to me and say Lord, Lord and I will tell them, ‘I never knew you.  Depart from me". 
 

I don't find scripture that says asking forgiveness is what is required. SEEKING forgiveness, repentance, and relationship is.  
 

The thief who hung on the cross next to Jesus didn't have to DO anything to be received in heaven. But he DID recognize Jesus for who he truly is, and trusted Him.

SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) said:

Also no answer to the age-old "why do bad things happen to good people?" There is so much in life that makes no sense. And it bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, then what happens or does not happen bears no reflection on your "goodness," so there has to be a deeper importance going on.

Not to single you out at all, but this right here is why I will never have a 'faith' or religious / spiritual side to me.

I will simply never understand why someone would assume "there must be some deeper importance" in answer to that question.  To me, it's clearly obvious that "E36 M3 happens" is the answer to that question, and it just reinforces my understanding that there is no guiding force, supernatural supreme being, god, or what-have-you directing the universe.

Like Brake_L8, I just don't have that gene or part of my brain or whatever it is.  Never did.

dculberson said:

In reply to Steve_Jones :

Please note the difference between these two statements:

"I believe X, and am excited to share it with you."

vs:

"You are an idiot if you believe X."

One is a statement of belief, the other is an insult. And don't act all confused like you don't see why calling someone's supreme being a magical sky person is insulting. You know it is, and that's why you said it. Also note that I have said nothing about my beliefs, because I am capable of hearing other's beliefs without mocking them.

Ian came on and said it's not for him. 3 people said "it is, all you have to do is x". 
 

he said again, "sorry it's not"

people said "oh but it is" not respecting his opinion. 
 

I point out "it must be if you believe in x" according to the people that felt the need to argue with him  

I'm somehow the shiny happy person, yet they are not  why? I at least respected Ian's beliefs  

Steve, unless you believe yourself to be God, this thread isn't really about you.

Marjorie Suddard said:

Steve, unless you believe yourself to be God, this thread isn't really about you.

So I'm not allowed to have an opinion about being reconciled to my maker? Wow.

Steve_Jones said:

I was not aware having a different opinion was "trolling". What a boring world if everyone is forced to agree. 

I'm going to assume from our posts that you and I are on the same side of this, generally speaking.

But you can choose to be a dick about it, or you can choose not to be a dick about it, without suppressing your own beliefs in any way.

In reply to Steve_Jones :

Nice ninja edit 

But not before it was seen. 

In reply to Duke :

Please show me where I'm a dick about it. From what I see the judgement started from the people professing to be of faith. I am allowed to defend my position am I not? Again, point out why I deserve the E36 M3 aimed at me in this thread. 
 

ill say it again, the hypocrisy of the people here judging others while professing to being of the Christian faith is laughable

In reply to SV reX :

She deleted hers, I edited mine. 

This thread is being trolled and wrecked quickly. I invite anyone with any stories to tell, anyone who needs an ear to listen, or anyone who wants to chat about the subject to contact me directly and I will be happy to respectfully try to help.

Steve_Jones said:

I was not aware having a different opinion was "trolling".

It is here, Steve.  It always has been and always will be. Get used to it.

You are not the troll here, but you look like one because of your abrupt and to the point answers, and the way you call people out.  The real troll is the guy who keeps coming after you, and doing it nicely. He'll never get called out.

There is no good reason for this thread. It clearly goes against forum rules, and those rules exist for a reason.

Sorry for your loss, OP.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts in a difficult time.

LOL.  I logged in this morning half expecting this thread to be locked.  I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't.  Then I read the last two pages and I see that it's unlocked status is very much in doubt.

Can we simply not respond to those individuals who seem interested only in stirring the pot?  Yes, I am acutely aware of the irony in that I am saying this, as I suspect I am often the one assuming the role of pot-stirrer.

Put another way:  Don't feed the troll.

For the most part, great discussion guys.

Peabody said:

Steve_Jones said:

I was not aware having a different opinion was "trolling".

It is here, Steve.  It always has been and always will be. Get used to it.

The real troll is the guy who keeps coming after you, and doing it nicely. He'll never get called out.

Then perhaps it is not the difference of opinion that is the issue, it is the method of presentation.

Oh no, you're allowed to have an opinion--it's the personal back-and-forth that is troll-y, and there are multiple offenders here--always the same names. I actually deleted my comment about trolls because Steve immediately felt called out by it, though that right there is a tell.

Really guys, argue about your beliefs, but do not argue about arguing. Or do so it's crystal clear that's what you're really here for and we can stop pretending you are not all trolls.

Margie

Also, Marjorie, if this thread is causing you indigestion, or any other localized discomfort*, I will not be upset in the slightest if you choose to lock it. 

It is of course, my preference that we could all just get along and interact in a civil, respectful way. 

*Edited to allow for other transient discomfort brought on by the misbehavior of forum participants, i.e. a pain in the butt.

Steve_Jones said:

dculberson said:

In reply to Steve_Jones :

Please note the difference between these two statements:

"I believe X, and am excited to share it with you."

vs:

"You are an idiot if you believe X."

One is a statement of belief, the other is an insult. And don't act all confused like you don't see why calling someone's supreme being a magical sky person is insulting. You know it is, and that's why you said it. Also note that I have said nothing about my beliefs, because I am capable of hearing other's beliefs without mocking them.

Ian came on and said it's not for him. 3 people said "it is, all you have to do is x". 
 

he said again, "sorry it's not"

people said "oh but it is" not respecting his opinion. 
 

I point out "it must be if you believe in x" according to the people that felt the need to argue with him  

I'm somehow the shiny happy person, yet they are not  why? I at least respected Ian's beliefs 

This right here is an example of you making your point but not being a dick.  Try to follow your own example a little more.

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

I am very sorry for your loss. I am glad for your that you were/are able to attend the funerals and expand your appreciation for the whole of the person you lost. Sadly knowing more makes the hole their absence leaves bigger, but after the pain fades it allows you to fully appreciate how lucky you were to have them.

Belief systems aside, I appreciate the reminder that life is not always long or predictable, and we should address the things that will bring us peace when that day comes.