Let's say I was looking for a Jeep Grand Cherokee. What years would be best to avoid? Let's say budget is under 10k. What do I buy?
Might consider other similar vehicles--must be 4WD, roomy, with considerable "road presence." Not interested in little clown cars.
Edit: Okay, looks like emphasis is on 4WD/AWD. Trucks okay, but hard to find at reasonable prices in this market. Jeep XJ, Volvo XC? Manual transmission preferred, but clearly a pipe dream.
They say avoid engines that have a displacement ending in .7. They are actually decent motors, but they NEED to have regular oil changes. Who does that?!?! I like the ZJ (first gen, up to 1998) and the WJ (second gen, 1999 to 2004) are my favorites. I like the solid axle.
The transmissions behind the I6 and V8s are good, but look out for a check-valve in the trans cooler line. The ball is plastic. The plastic deforms if it gets really hot and sticks closed. Transmission carniage ensues. Replace the valve with an all-metal one and, while your in there, put a big trans cooler up front and happy wheeling.
I have a 1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited. Lifted on 32's for that road presence you're looking for. No manual, but built auto. If you're interested, PM me.
ZJ Grand Cherokee with the 4.0L and the Select-Trac II transfer case (2WD, part-time 4-Hi, full-time 4-Hi, 4-Lo) is my favorite flavor. Only downside is the 42RE transmission is a little flaky. But you might be ankle to find a really nice one with a roached transmission for cheap and then have the transmission rebuilt.
I was thinking of Wagoneer. Get this instead.
They did make manual ZJ Grand Cherokees. For like a year. And only like 1500 of them. Jalopnik's David Tracy seems to know where they all are and like every other week writes an article about finding another one for sale.
If your not buying for towing purposes, and if you are buying for tow purposes you should buy something else, then I would stick to 6 cyl.
The legendary 4.0L straight 6 was offered until 2004. After that I would advance to 2011 and newer for the 3.6L Pentastar which is also stout/reliable. All the years in between are .7L engines. At all cost, avoid the 3.7L
Super "diggity!" to the 5.9L above!
Potential outlier:
I just wrote above to avoid '05-2010 due to the engines but if you absolutely do find yourself shopping those... In those years there was also the Jeep Commander. The chassis is Grand Cherokee with the a little more "ba-donk-a-donk" aka "rear overhang" added to accommodate a 3rd row of seating. Not so much a chassis stretch but a rear chassis add-on. The overall look is more square and less angular. These get overlooked due to the fact they were not on the market long. The 3rd row is not that good leaving really zero cargo space if you use the 3rd row. When not using the 3rd row, the folded row takes up a lot of cargo space too. Many people just remove the 3rd row all together. The squareness shape makes it seem a larger vehicle than it is. But, people overlook them so there may be some values in the market.
Datsun310Guy said:I was thinking of Wagoneer. Get this instead.
I had a g-wag. LOVED IT! Today though, the prices are on the rise. I've seen clean examples approaching 80K
John Welsh said:If your not buying for towing purposes, and if you are buying for tow purposes you should buy something else, then I would stick to 6 cyl.
The legendary 4.0L straight 6 was offered until 2004. After that I would advance to 2011 and newer for the 3.6L Pentastar which is also stout/reliable. All the years in between are .7L engines. At all cost, avoid the 3.7L
Super "diggity!" to the 5.9L above!
Potential outlier:
I just wrote above to avoid '05-2010 due to the engines but if you absolutely do find yourself shopping those... In those years there was also the Jeep Commander. The chassis is Grand Cherokee with the a little more "ba-donk-a-donk" aka "rear overhang" added to accommodate a 3rd row of seating. Not so much a chassis stretch but a rear chassis add-on. The overall look is more square and less angular. These get overlooked due to the fact they were not on the market long. The 3rd row is not that good leaving really zero cargo space if you use the 3rd row. When not using the 3rd row, the folded row takes up a lot of cargo space too. Many people just remove the 3rd row all together. The squareness shape makes it seem a larger vehicle than it is. But, people overlook them so there may be some values in the market.
The 4.0 is absolutely bullet-proof, but so is the 5.2 and 5.9. The 5.9 in the 98 ZJ is a magnum 5.9, and is midly warmed over. More power than the 5.9 in the Ram of the years.
If you don't want the extra power of one of the V8s, I'd be getting a ZJ with the 4.0 and swap in the AW4 trans from the XJ Cherokee. The AW4 was available in the ZJ for about 10 minutes in 1994 IIRC.
Lotsa good info here, guys. Like I expected anything different.... 
My input is (as usual) slightly different but since I am on my second one...
I wouldn't really reccomend a six cylinder model or even the 5.2 for a vehicle this size and weight. Yes, they are super reliable but they are also weak and slow and just not fun to drive. The 5.9 is great, but not very many seem to have been made. The 5.7 does require regular changing of the correct oil, but it is the easiest oil change job ever. Simple to reach everything and no jack required. I like the torque of the 5.7 and have never had an issue that I can remember beyond feeding it ple ty of good gas, but gas is cheap...
The full time 4wd that comes with the bigger v8 is good with a usable low range and the ability to divert almost all torque to a single wheel if need be or quickly split it as needed.
I have probably spent more time off road with them than on and have never failed to get where I am going. Definitely completed over 100 recovery tows on other vehicles (seems like mostly fords and my aunts 5.2 durango) and again, never failed to free them up. Honestly, the thought of failure just doesn't enter my mind.
Towing manners are pretty good. They are rated for something like 7k lbs and that is usually plenty for most jobs. No issues with brake fade or transmission heat, although to be fair both areas did get some preventative upgrades but just bolt on usual stuff. A trans cooler with thermostat and fan, good rotors and pads and all worries disappear.
On road manners are much better than truck based stuff. Unibody isn't a bad word in the 21st century. Decent room for 5 adults plus luggage and higher trims do bring some nice appointments. My 2011 overland drives like a large luxury car with stuff like heated/vented memory seats, push button air suspension, enough 12v and 120v outlets and plenty of cupholders...
Even in "sport" mode my 2011 gets vague at the limit of traction and nervous newr triple digits but that just reminds you that it isn't a sports car. Cruising on the highway at a reasonable speed could make you forget it isn't a luxury sedan.
I've done the little bolt ons like intakes, exhausts and upgraded stereos but that is just car guy stuff. The uncorked hemi provides the kind of smiles on both inhale and exhale that a 6 cylinder can only dream about.
Definitely not a perfect vehicle but I am happy to be driving one again. My current '11 overland was $14k with 110k miles and some serious love from the previous owner. Used prices are crazy now but if you can find a post 2010 it is a better buy. I wouldn't say no to another 2005 like my old one but will admit my ownership experience may have been luckier that others. In short, I didn't and never will shop for an suv without a v8 because I like speed and torque. If you don't require high trim luxury you might find a hemi in your price range and I would reccomend it.
In reply to tb :
Define "fun to drive"...I will disagree with you regarding engine choice at least as it relates to the ZJ and the WJ. I don't have any firsthand experience with the WK.
I had a 5.2 AWD ZJ. It was plenty of fun to drive. I still think it's the fastest stock vehicle I've owned for the first 30 feet. It was thirsty, and the viscous coupling transfer case that came on the ZJ V8's was not fantastic-it would wear out and then would want to act like a locked center diff, which would make parking lot maneuvering fun- but it wasn't known for actually failing and making the vehicle unusable. It was amazing in the snow and off-road, though. My friend had a very nice 5.9 Limited ZJ and while it was also fun, it was constantly breaking in new and irritating ways.
My parents and then my brother (and then my parents again) had a 4.0 WJ with Selec-Trac. It was bomb-proof, and more than fast enough to get out of its own way. It was also very reliable. They bought it with 30k and finally traded it in with 175k; aside from a headgasket replacement at ~140k when my brother overheated it in traffic after puncturing the radiator, it never left them walking. Given Chrysler's rep for reliability in the aughts, this may have been an outlier.
The advice to avoid the 3.7 and 4.7 is spot on. Anecdotally, they seem to run the risk of catastrophic failure at a much higher rate than the "average" car. The Hemi seems to be quite a bit more reliable and is also enough power to actually be fun to drive.
In reply to DrBoost :
That's a super clean one for the midwest. Where did you pull it from?
DrBoost said:I have a 1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited. Lifted on 32's for that road presence you're looking for. No manual, but built auto. If you're interested, PM me.
I'm interested. Sent you a PM but Yahoo bounced it back. Details?
I might be incorrect about exactly what others find fun, ill easily admit that. My 5.7 is pushing near 400 horses and still feels like it could use another hundred or two... maybe I've been spending too much time in the turbo miata.
I agree with the group that the 5.9 limited above looks fantastic and has all the power and presence needed.
I might have a one-owner street driven WJ Laredo with the V8 available if I can talk that owner (my wife) into selling it. I could probably get you the name of every person who's sat behind the wheel, she was very protective. She's afraid that if we sell it locally it will get turned into a battered rock crawler, and it was her first new car.
It's been off-road twice, once to go over Imogene Pass which is easy enough that a Miata can do it, and once to go over Engineer Pass which is pretty straightforward if you pick your line. All I did was unhook the sway bars.
Cloth interior, towing package (I've gone cross-country with a Locost on a trailer with it), completely rust-free as it's lived in the Colorado desert since new, I'll have to look at the shifter to see which of the confusingly named transfer cases it has but it has too much traction in the snowy stuff to allow for hoonage. Automatic, though. Airaid intake along with an emissions-legal Superchips tune that makes a legit difference to horsepower and transmission behavior: here's what I said on GRM at the time. Drop me a line if you're at all interested.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Have you been over Imogene lately? A miata definitely isn't going over that pass
Buy a Tahoe?
docwyte said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
Have you been over Imogene lately? A miata definitely isn't going over that pass
:)
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/trail-tackling-off-roadster/185377/page1/
bmw88rider said:In reply to DrBoost :
That's a super clean one for the midwest. Where did you pull it from?
California. Only been in Michigan for 3 winters. First was in the garage because of a dui (previous owner), then last winter in the garage because of covid (work from home).
In reply to Tactical Penguin :
Shoot me an email directly.
tracy . Pospeshil at g mail
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Yeah, I have serious doubts about that
I had a 1997 Jeep ZJ that I bought with 6,000 miles and drive for 91,000 with no issues. It was the 4.0 6-cylinder, it was underpower but was fine for what it was. I added spring spacers front and rear and taller tires(295's) just for the look as it was never off-road. Toward the end of its life a rear axle seal went and when I pulled the diff cover the ring gear was "pitted". No noise, but I replaced the axle seals and bearings just before I sold it and bought a 4 Runner. I was told the diff breather was blocked and condensation did the damage. Had I known how much different the T4R drove, I would have bought one way back when I got the Jeep. I've since owned and drive several Toyota's deep into the 200k mile zone. My vote would be for T4R as they can also be found with a standa5d transmission.
I had a 1999 GC with the 4.0 and it was great. I put a lot of miles on it and as a family car, it was pretty unbeatable. I wasn't towing anything at the time so the power was fine. The motor in the '99 GC seemed to be a lot more refined than the same motor in my 95 XJ.
DrBoost said:They say avoid engines that have a displacement ending in .7.
So, can we jump back into this .7 engine thing? Particularly the 4.7 V8? The internet seems to think they are prone to overheating and subsequent head gasket failures. Does this sound about right?
The vehicle surrounding this engine might be a 1500 Ram truck. Anybody want to share some knowledge?
1998 5.9L Limited has some of the comfiest seats I've ever dropped by keister into on any vehicle. Went to school with a guy who drag raced his and I recall it being quick for the time.
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